Who gives a **** about issues? Scoring is needed all the time. Almost every damn game we lose is because we cant score goals, do you realize that? Its not because of toughness. All i want is to have some young scorers on this team, is that a crime? My god. Why cant our team ever draft the young scoring forward? Why? Why the hell is it always a problem?
Gordie Clark
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Who gives a **** about issues? Scoring is needed all the time. Almost every damn game we lose is because we cant score goals, do you realize that? Its not because of toughness. All i want is to have some young scorers on this team, is that a crime? My god. Why cant our team ever draft the young scoring forward? Why? Why the hell is it always a problem?
Yeah, that's my favorite part. "I thought you draft for the future!!!" as he whines about how a 21 year old doesn't fill an immediate need.
Yeah, that's my point. You want us to talk about the future, yet lament the McIlrath pick because we need scoring right now, December 22nd, 2013. It's the textbook definition of "hypocrisy."
I'm a fan, i can evaluate everything in hindsight if i want,, we all can. They make the moves, we ***** about them. Thats what being a fan is..
2009 wasnt a strong draft class but thats not the point, i just want some young scorers on this team and we could have had them
And physical, defensive defensemen isn't needed all the time? Someone tell the Bruins they're paying Chara for nothing!
You're still not explaining how Gordie Clark, in June of 2010, was supposed to predict what the New York Rangers' issues would be in December of 2013. You're right. The Rangers sure as hell could use a young goal scorer right now. That doesn't mean that Gordie Clark made the wrong pick THREE YEARS AGO.
2010 is 3 years ago, 2013 would be the future in 2010. Does McIlrath fill a definite need RIGHT NOW? If you can go back in time in 2010 and redo the 10th pick, would you?
Do we play the Bruins for 82 games? Physical Dmen are nice but scoring is a pretty big need too, much more than physical dmen imo. I didnt say he made the wrong pick, but i think a scoring winger would be better on this team right now.
What are you even rambling on about? Would I redo it? Maybe. Would Tarasenko fill a need right now? Definitely. But this isn't a "Which player would best help the 2013 New York Rangers?" thread. This is about people insinuating that Gordie Clark is a bad drafter. The Rangers needing goal scoring in 2013 is not evidence that Gordie Clark is a bad evaluator of talent nor that Dylan McIlrath was a bad selection.
We could have used scoring in 11-12 too. And last year 12-13.
McIlrath isnt a bad pick, but i think it was a reach. I hope he turns out to be great, but i just remember Jessiman and i dont want the same thing to happen.
Let's assume the worst. Let's say McIlrath bottoms out, plays a handful on NHL games before moving to Europe or retiring or whatever else. Meanwhile, Tarasenko becomes a consistent 30 goal scorer.
That is one draft pick among dozens, and we can go through every team and find selections that did not work out in hindsight. And it's stupid to sit here and whine in hindsight about one draft pick with the ability to use hindsight.
Its a possibility.
And i dont care about other teams. I care about the Rangers. It will bother me if McIlrath doesnt turn out to be a good player because it will mean that it WAS a bad pick.
"I don't care about other teams."
What does this even mean? The ONLY WAY you can evaluate how good of a job Gordie Clark has done is by comparing to other teams. If McIlrath doesn't work out then oh well, **** happens. Every team has had some 1st round selections that look poor in hindsight. And, guess what, if your standard is a 100% track record then prepare to be disappointed again and again and again. That's the nature of the draft. Welcome to reality.
What the hell? **** happpens? ****ing up drafts can set franchises back dude. Would you be ok with McIlrath never being a good player in the NHL?
please find me one team in nhl history who has a 100% success rate at the draft.
Nobody, but in 2010 which was a really good draft, we NEED a good player. You cant mess those types of drafts up.
I give up. Somebody else can try to accomplish the impossible and reason with the unreasonable.
Leslie Treff
Registered User
Let me chime in here for a second.
First of all, I believe that Gordie Clark's first year of running the draft was 2007, not 2008. His first pick was Cherepanov, one of the best forwards available in that year's draft. Hagelin was also selected in that draft--in the sixth round.
When the 2008 draft came along, Sanguinetti was already not doing as well as the Rangers would have hoped and they already had Cherepanov, their star winger in waiting. Clark actually had an excellent draft in 2008. Knowing he had a great winger coming along, and knowing that he did not pick til 20th overall, he chose a replacement for Sanguinetti in Del Zotto. A very good pick at that spot, as Del Zotto had tremendous offensive potential (the Rangers were looking for a future offensive D-man) and Del Zotto dropped because of what some scouts saw as lack of discipline on the ice. Now the Rangers had two guys--Sanguinetti and Del Zotto--to battle it out for that slot.
Then Gordie went outside the box and chose Derek Stepan, who he could not stop raving about. He went to see Step at Shatty several times and was completely sold on him as a second to third line center. He was completely right on this guy.
Then he went with Grachev, who was projected to go first round. Grachev was a scoring center, who they knew would come over to North America to play junior. And he did, and he played great. What they did not know was that he would not play more than one year of junior--his agent really pressured in Grachev's second year in NA and he wound up playing AHL hockey. For several reasons, not the least of which was how he was coached, he became a total flop, but none of that was Clark's fault.
Then he chose Kundratek with his second pick in the third round. Tall and very skinny, the Rangers gave up on him too soon. Not Gordie's fault though. Kundratek could be playing on this team right now as a seventh defenseman.
Then there was Dale Weise in the fourth round. Weise is one of my favorites--a character kid who is an very good fourth line player. They kept promising to bring him up next and someone else kept getting recalled ahead of Weise. He was never used for what he should be--a fourth liner who can score about 15-20 points per year, but is hard nosed and responsible.
To me this was one of the best drafts the rangers have had in many years--did not pick til 20th, and out of seven players, three are regular NHLers. Plus Kundratek.
In 2009, Kreider was the first pick, at number 19. I still think that he will be a long term solid first line player. That he missed on all of the other 6 is not great, but Horak (who was chosen third) is a borderline NHLer, who went to Calgary for Erixon who then was part of the Nash trade.
Its 2010 that I had most of an issue with. It was Tarasenko that I particularly had my eye on, but I knew the Rangers wanted a defenseman. I was hoping that it would be Fowler, who as you may remember, dropped like a stone, as both Sanguinetti and Del Zotto had before. But the Rangers were at that point pretty sure that Del Zotto was going to make it as their number one offensive defenseman guy. And, and this is a big AND, Clark thought that he had a sure thing crease clearing big nasty blueliner that he could draft in McIlrath. Plus, if I remember correctly, Dallas who drafted right behind the Rangers, were hot on McIlrath's trail. Not sure that McIlrath will ever become that, but its too early to say it was a total bust. If he was right, there are very few of these guys available and Clark will be thought of as great. If he turns out to be wrong, his whole tenure in New York could be judged negatively by it. But when you have a top 10, you have to get it right. Then in a later round, he picked Fast--who still may wind up being a top six forward in New York.
In 2011, there wasn't much to choose from at number 15. At least there wasn't much at the time. It seemed to me that Clark was looking for a second to third line winger and he picked Miller because he had a little more offensive upside than Tyler Biggs, who was also available. I think that he may eventually fill that role for the Rangers, he's just not ready yet. A full year in Hartford would not have hurt him and, if not for the Rangers' woes this season, he would hae gotten that opportunity. It would have been great for him to dominate the league and then come to the Rangers with a very successful pro year under his belt. The draft was not a strong one, so if Miller is the only one who makes it, this would be no surprise. All the rest of the guys were a crap shoot.
In 2012, the Rangers wanted Vasilvesky, but at 28, they could not move move up to get him (Vasilevsky went at 19). Instead, they took the best player available--Brady Skjei, who is doing nicely at the U. This was a better draft than the year before, but the Rangers only had four picks.
This past season, there were no picks before the third round, and only five overall. There are two potential diamonds in the five picks though--Buchnevich and Duclair.
So, my point is, I don't see a bad job by Gordie here. What I see is a team going in several directions; where not everyone in management is on the same page. And I see a team that may not be developing their top six players properly at the AHL level, but for many reasons is unwilling to change that.
However, I also see two trades that were made with Montreal since 2009 that brought excellent players to New York--Ryan McDonagh and Danny Kristo.
Its very hard to build a Stanley Cup contender without top picks (see the discussion above). The problem I see with the Rangers is that they have not been willing to timely trade away very talented, even elite, players who won't fit the mold down the line to get very high draft picks, like Boston was willing to do with Kessel.
First of all, I believe that Gordie Clark's first year of running the draft was 2007, not 2008. His first pick was Cherepanov, one of the best forwards available in that year's draft. Hagelin was also selected in that draft--in the sixth round.
When the 2008 draft came along, Sanguinetti was already not doing as well as the Rangers would have hoped and they already had Cherepanov, their star winger in waiting. Clark actually had an excellent draft in 2008. Knowing he had a great winger coming along, and knowing that he did not pick til 20th overall, he chose a replacement for Sanguinetti in Del Zotto. A very good pick at that spot, as Del Zotto had tremendous offensive potential (the Rangers were looking for a future offensive D-man) and Del Zotto dropped because of what some scouts saw as lack of discipline on the ice. Now the Rangers had two guys--Sanguinetti and Del Zotto--to battle it out for that slot.
Then Gordie went outside the box and chose Derek Stepan, who he could not stop raving about. He went to see Step at Shatty several times and was completely sold on him as a second to third line center. He was completely right on this guy.
Then he went with Grachev, who was projected to go first round. Grachev was a scoring center, who they knew would come over to North America to play junior. And he did, and he played great. What they did not know was that he would not play more than one year of junior--his agent really pressured in Grachev's second year in NA and he wound up playing AHL hockey. For several reasons, not the least of which was how he was coached, he became a total flop, but none of that was Clark's fault.
Then he chose Kundratek with his second pick in the third round. Tall and very skinny, the Rangers gave up on him too soon. Not Gordie's fault though. Kundratek could be playing on this team right now as a seventh defenseman.
Then there was Dale Weise in the fourth round. Weise is one of my favorites--a character kid who is an very good fourth line player. They kept promising to bring him up next and someone else kept getting recalled ahead of Weise. He was never used for what he should be--a fourth liner who can score about 15-20 points per year, but is hard nosed and responsible.
To me this was one of the best drafts the rangers have had in many years--did not pick til 20th, and out of seven players, three are regular NHLers. Plus Kundratek.
In 2009, Kreider was the first pick, at number 19. I still think that he will be a long term solid first line player. That he missed on all of the other 6 is not great, but Horak (who was chosen third) is a borderline NHLer, who went to Calgary for Erixon who then was part of the Nash trade.
Its 2010 that I had most of an issue with. It was Tarasenko that I particularly had my eye on, but I knew the Rangers wanted a defenseman. I was hoping that it would be Fowler, who as you may remember, dropped like a stone, as both Sanguinetti and Del Zotto had before. But the Rangers were at that point pretty sure that Del Zotto was going to make it as their number one offensive defenseman guy. And, and this is a big AND, Clark thought that he had a sure thing crease clearing big nasty blueliner that he could draft in McIlrath. Plus, if I remember correctly, Dallas who drafted right behind the Rangers, were hot on McIlrath's trail. Not sure that McIlrath will ever become that, but its too early to say it was a total bust. If he was right, there are very few of these guys available and Clark will be thought of as great. If he turns out to be wrong, his whole tenure in New York could be judged negatively by it. But when you have a top 10, you have to get it right. Then in a later round, he picked Fast--who still may wind up being a top six forward in New York.
In 2011, there wasn't much to choose from at number 15. At least there wasn't much at the time. It seemed to me that Clark was looking for a second to third line winger and he picked Miller because he had a little more offensive upside than Tyler Biggs, who was also available. I think that he may eventually fill that role for the Rangers, he's just not ready yet. A full year in Hartford would not have hurt him and, if not for the Rangers' woes this season, he would hae gotten that opportunity. It would have been great for him to dominate the league and then come to the Rangers with a very successful pro year under his belt. The draft was not a strong one, so if Miller is the only one who makes it, this would be no surprise. All the rest of the guys were a crap shoot.
In 2012, the Rangers wanted Vasilvesky, but at 28, they could not move move up to get him (Vasilevsky went at 19). Instead, they took the best player available--Brady Skjei, who is doing nicely at the U. This was a better draft than the year before, but the Rangers only had four picks.
This past season, there were no picks before the third round, and only five overall. There are two potential diamonds in the five picks though--Buchnevich and Duclair.
So, my point is, I don't see a bad job by Gordie here. What I see is a team going in several directions; where not everyone in management is on the same page. And I see a team that may not be developing their top six players properly at the AHL level, but for many reasons is unwilling to change that.
However, I also see two trades that were made with Montreal since 2009 that brought excellent players to New York--Ryan McDonagh and Danny Kristo.
Its very hard to build a Stanley Cup contender without top picks (see the discussion above). The problem I see with the Rangers is that they have not been willing to timely trade away very talented, even elite, players who won't fit the mold down the line to get very high draft picks, like Boston was willing to do with Kessel.
Let Blaine Die
Holden out 4 a hero
I believe Werek was also traded for Lindberg, so that may be a plus too depending on how Lindberg pans out.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
This is some great perspective, Leslie. I don't think a lot of the fans criticizing take in to account what Gordie Clark *thought* he had at the time he drafted certain players. It's easily looking back know with what they do not have and cry about how player X should have been player Y.
This guy is a scout, not a prophet. I don't think he has done an amazing job, but it is certainly not as bad as some claim.
Thank Don Maloney for Sanguinetti over Giroux. (Although I doubt Giroux was not the next name on the Ranger list)
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