TSN: Gord Miller / Jamie Noodles McLennan give their opinion on Michael Bunting

[Sypher04]

I would say that Bunting lied and now he is subject to 'Trial by public opinion' even before he steps on the ice in training camp.

I'd be pretty surprised if some other team hadn't offered him more money. He show and lot of promise last season with Arizona and is really zero risk below the amount you can bury in the minors, which is I believe 1.175m or something.

 

[Sypher04]

I said that.

No, you didn't.

You said: "People use the stat as though every player is going to reach those goals given the chance to play more"

To which I disagreed and said: "I think the overwhelming majority of people who post on pace numbers understand that they aren’t equivalent to actual production and don’t pass them off as such"

Those statements are in no way equivalent.

 

[Racer88]

A report from one of the most respected insiders is the best you're going to get, and were perfectly capable of finding for yourself, but here you go:
John Tavares, Sharks face off with no regrets over how free agency unfolded - Sportsnet.ca

This being just one of several people who have said as much.

Also, the Isles were reported by many to have offered 88 over 8, which might be the same AAV, but still $11 million left on the table.

Ahhhhh so reported and speculation by an “insider”, well we all know we can take that as gospel truth.

 

[Sypher04]

Ahhhhh so reported and speculation by an “insider”, well we all know we can take that as gospel truth.

Is this really the hill you want to die on? If multiple of the most respected insiders in the business have said is it not reasonable to assume it's likely accurate...

 

[egd27]

I haven't seen that happen. Who are you even talking about? Are you suggesting that Bunting lied?

You haven't seen reports that players have claimed to have taken less to come to the Leafs?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You haven't seen reports that players have claimed to have taken less to come to the Leafs?

I've seen some sign here for less than they got offered elsewhere, but who are you talking about "wanting top dollar to re-sign once they're here"?

 

[hotpaws]

Is this really the hill you want to die on? If multiple of the most respected insiders in the business have said is it not reasonable to assume it's likely accurate...

More like one insider throws a rumour out there and the rest just keep regurgitating it .

 

[Tarmore]

Ahhhhh so reported and speculation by an “insider”, well we all know we can take that as gospel truth.

Stop being so difficult, there is NOTHING you would accept as proof that exists. Even though we all know it happened, too many sources

 

[ottomaddox]

No, you didn't.

You said: "People use the stat as though every player is going to reach those goals given the chance to play more"

To which I disagreed and said: "I think the overwhelming majority of people who post on pace numbers understand that they aren’t equivalent to actual production and don’t pass them off as such"

Those statements are in no way equivalent.

Yeah. We're both saying the same thing. Mine is more succinct and plain spoken.

 

[Gabriel426]

Let’s not kid ourselves, when players claim they signed with X team bc they wanted to be there and taken less. How much less do you think they are taking about?
Anyhow. Who cares? Just wish the players signed with the Leafs enjoy career seasons while playing for the Leafs.

 

[justashadowof]

I'd be pretty surprised if some other team hadn't offered him more money. He show and lot of promise last season with Arizona and is really zero risk below the amount you can bury in the minors, which is I believe 1.175m or something.

Arizona could have offered 3 years at league minimum and that's technically being offered more money. Let's get real here. The guy is 26 in a week, he's made well under $1M in total from 6 pro seasons. He should be highly motivated to take the best money offered.

 

[justashadowof]

I'd like to say it's really unfair some of the expectations being placed on the player especially by these media guys. A professional veteran of his age making under $1M should be considered a modest asset. If he plays 70-80 games in the bottom 6, plays decently two-ways and manages to score 10g 15a, that's a reasonable expectation for the player.

 

[Menzinger]

Arizona could have offered 3 years at league minimum and that's technically being offered more money. Let's get real here. The guy is 26 in a week, he's made well under $1M in total from 6 pro seasons. He should be highly motivated to take the best money offered.

At the same time, he's at an age that if he wants to have a chance at a bigger money deal (ie one in the 3+ mil range) he's going to want to be in the best situation possible over the next couple seasons to make that happen.

Signing to a team for more money than what the Leafs offered but with lesser opportunities would potentially may not be the best financial decision in the longer term even if it out more money in the bank in the shorter term

 

[Dekes For Days]

He should be highly motivated to take the best money offered.

Long-term, the best bet to make the most money likely comes from having the chance to play with elite players on a cup contender, not playing on a tanking team that's about to be relocated.

 

[Tarmore]

I'd like to say it's really unfair some of the expectations being placed on the player especially by these media guys. A professional veteran of his age making under $1M should be considered a modest asset. If he plays 70-80 games in the bottom 6, plays decently two-ways and manages to score 10g 15a, that's a reasonable expectation for the player.

Depending on his role and playing time 10g 15a may be high. If he plays 4 line 9 minutes a night meh.

Few are expecting him to become a first line player.

Most (I think) are hopeful that he clicks with M&M and has just runs with it.

I think Richie will be with the slower center and that leaves line 1 open on the left side....

 

[Tarmore]

Long-term, the best bet to make the most money likely comes from having the chance to play with elite players on a cup contender, not playing on a tanking team that's about to be relocated.

Even if Toronto was rebuilding he would still get more exposure in the Hockey world playing her than in the Desert.

 

[Gabriel426]

I really hope Leafsnation keep Bunting ‘s expectations to be normal.
There is a reason why he signed for 950k for two years, even if he took at 50% discount, he is still someone who would be making under 2mil. That’s pretty much a bottom 6 forward.
I am not dissing Bunting and I love to have him succeed as a Leafs but at the same time, you just can’t overhype him.

 

[The Nic]

When Noodles called Bunting "a guy that doesn't jump off the page"... he must have been looking in the mirror.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

What wonderful serendipity that the Leafs acquired a Hyman replacement for $1M aav who a cash starved Arizona didn't want to retain despite 6 seasons of pro development in the organization.

Is it really development in Arizona though? I mean everyone they've "developed" has really just lived up to expectations...I can't think of anyone there who really got there and grew in the organization well beyond what they were supposed to be...

 

[4thline]

I'd like to say it's really unfair some of the expectations being placed on the player especially by these media guys. A professional veteran of his age making under $1M should be considered a modest asset. If he plays 70-80 games in the bottom 6, plays decently two-ways and manages to score 10g 15a, that's a reasonable expectation for the player.

I think that is absolutely the expectation, but that as a relative late bloomer there is justified "hope" for more upside than that. Two very different things.

 

[Mess]

At the same time, he's at an age that if he wants to have a chance at a bigger money deal (ie one in the 3+ mil range) he's going to want to be in the best situation possible over the next couple seasons to make that happen.

Signing to a team for more money than what the Leafs offered but with lesser opportunities would potentially may not be the best financial decision in the longer term even if it out more money in the bank in the shorter term

Except he might play bigger minutes and in the top 6 with some PP time on a weaker team like he was given in Arizona post trade deadline last year on a non playoff team, while playing bottom 6 minutes with no PP time on a stronger team.

If one is deciding about what path to take to put up the most points and prove themselves at the NHL level after just 26 NHL total to date, then easier competition for roster and playing time and more opportunities should also be a consideration.

Think Connor Brown scenario here.. On the Leafs he was buried down the depth chart and deemed expendable and too costly at $2.1 mil AAV for a bottom 6 player when he scored 8 goals, while now in Ottawa he is key player that plays in their top 6 and scored 21 goals last year in 56 games (which was more goals than Marner 20) and recently got rewarded with a 3 year deal $10.8 mil [$3.6 mil AAV]

He would never have gotten that deal in Toronto, and players getting that money in Toronto don't score at his level as him. That's Alex Kerfoot $3.5 mil AAV money in Toronto, and he only scored 8 goals last year for that AAV). If Bunting scored 8 goals similarly he wouldn't be inline for a $3+ mil range next contract. He would be looking over his shoulder at young players like Robertson and Amirov etc to replace him on the roster, who are younger, cheaper with more NHL potential as he is 26 years old now.

Bigger fish in a little pond, or little fish in a bigger pond.

 

[4thline]

Except he might play bigger minutes and in the top 6 with some PP time on a weaker team like he was given in Arizona post trade deadline last year on a non playoff team, while playing bottom 6 minutes with no PP time on a stronger team.

....
Think Connor Brown scenario here.. On the Leafs he was buried down the depth chart and deemed expendable and too costly at $2.1 mil AAV for a bottom 6 player when he scored 8 goals, while now in Ottawa he is key player that plays in their top 6 and scored 21 goals last year in 56 games (which was more goals than Marner 20) and recently got rewarded with a 3 year deal $10.8 mil [$3.6 mil AAV]

....

Bigger fish in a little pond, or little fish in a bigger pond.

Thinking Connor Brown scenario- Mitch Marner, William Nylander, Kasperi Kapanen.

The list blocking Bunting right now is certainly as impressive.

 

[egd27]

Long-term, the best bet to make the most money likely comes from having the chance to play with elite players on a cup contender, not playing on a tanking team that's about to be relocated.

Perhaps, but one could argue that a 26 year old (when season starts) with a grand total of 26 NHL games may be wise to consider the present rather than think about a long term that would seem uncertain at best.

 

[justashadowof]

Depending on his role and playing time 10g 15a may be high. If he plays 4 line 9 minutes a night meh.

Definitely. I was envisioning him getting 3rd line minutes in this scenario similar to Engvall. If Bunting ends up as a fixture on the 4th line, his offensive numbers would be very modest and I'd hope that circumstance would be kept in mind. That's the beauty of this type of signing: if he can play anywhere in the lineup including the 4th line, his contract is "cap friendly". But I'll reiterate: he isn't a failure if he's no better than a 4th liner.

 

[justashadowof]

At the same time, he's at an age that if he wants to have a chance at a bigger money deal (ie one in the 3+ mil range) he's going to want to be in the best situation possible over the next couple seasons to make that happen.

Signing to a team for more money than what the Leafs offered but with lesser opportunities would potentially may not be the best financial decision in the longer term even if it out more money in the bank in the shorter term

Doubtless there are better opportunities for players of his ilk elsewhere including Arizona. He'd need to be on an NHL PP to maximize his NHL numbers. It's highly doubtful barring a rash of injuries that he will get much if any PP time in Toronto.