HF Habs: Goaltending Prospects/Young Players - Who to Keep Who to Trade

[Schwang]

Name me 1 goaltender who hasnt been inconsistent at the start of his pro carreer? Even Price had his struggling nights and softies.

Its well known, goaltender is the longest position to develop, it takes time, thats mentally very tough since the goaltender is the 1st one people will blame for a goal, alot of pressure, alot of expections, but I think Primeau is mentally very strong to handle the job in MTL and deliver. Only prob, he will be constantly compared to Price, but kid should get a better team in front of him over his carreer. so he will be fine.

Primeau has the size, the skills, a high compete, cant see him miss at all.

How many goalies drafted below say, the 4th or 5th round are even starters in the NHL, let alone top 10-15? Probably a very small percentage. Most are drafted 4th round or higher. I know there's always the odd diamond in the rough, but it's very rare.
I'll give Primeau a full regular season to change my mind. Now that there will be more competition and a full season, it will be a good indicator to see what we actually have in Laval. I agree it takes time, but to call him a can't miss prospect at this point in time is way too premature. I said the same thing about Fucale after seeing him play. People thought he was the second coming too.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think people may end up being somewhat disappointed with our prospects down there.

 

[WeThreeKings]

How many goalies drafted below say, the 4th or 5th round are even starters in the NHL, let alone top 10-15? Probably a very small percentage. Most are drafted 4th round or higher. I know there's always the odd diamond in the rough, but it's very rare.
I'll give Primeau a full regular season to change my mind. Now that there will be more competition and a full season, it will be a good indicator to see what we actually have in Laval. I agree it takes time, but to call him a can't miss prospect at this point in time is way too premature. I said the same thing about Fucale after seeing him play. People thought he was the second coming too.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think people may end up being somewhat disappointed with our prospects down there.

Lundqvist and Rinne were top 5 goalies for most of their career and were picked in the last round of their draft years.

Sorokin and Shesterkin were not first rounders. Gibson was a 2nd rounder. Quick a 3rd rounder. Bobrovsky undrafted.

 

[Schwang]

Lundqvist and Rinne were top 5 goalies for most of their career and were picked in the last round of their draft years.

Sorokin and Shesterkin were not first rounders. Gibson was a 2nd rounder. Quick a 3rd rounder. Bobrovsky undrafted.

I didn't say first rounders specifically. I said most are drafted 4th round or above. Rinne and Lundqvist aren't current nhl goalies either. Even counting that, it still proves my point that a high percentage of top 10-15 goalies were not drafted below the 4th round. I did acknowledge that sometimes it happens.

 

[JoelWarlord]

How many goalies drafted below say, the 4th or 5th round are even starters in the NHL, let alone top 10-15? Probably a very small percentage. Most are drafted 4th round or higher.

Andersen 7th then redrafted in the 3rd, Khudobin 7th, Miller 5th, Mrazek 5th, Ullmark 6th, Lundqvist 7th, Kuemper 6th, Rinne 8th, Gibson + Saros 4th, Hellebuyck 5th, Smith 5th, Halak 9th, Bobrovsky, Raanta, Talbot, and Georgiev undrafted. It's really not that rare, and that list includes six collective Vezinas.

We've had this discussion before and like I said last time, I don't have a problem with the Habs trying to get better G prospects because you should always be trying to improve everywhere all the time. If there's a goalie they really like in the first 3 rounds then sure, I'd be perfectly happy to add more prospect depth there, but there is nothing inherent about being picked in the first 3 rounds that supposes any sort of guarantee, and I really think you're vastly overrating the depth of goalie prospects around the league if you think Primeau stands out as a uniquely weak top G prospect.

If you think Primeau is overrated that's fine, but make the argument based on his play, and his tools and traits, not his draft position 4 years ago. There's no logical reason to impose an arbitrary ceiling on a goalie prospect (or any position) based on their draft position when we're 4 years out and they have NCAA/AHL track records that outshine their peers. He was the best goalie in Hockey East at 18, best in the NCAA at 19, and has been good in the AHL at 20-22, why should we give a shit that he was picked in the 7th round?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Primeau has 4 wins on the season, 2 of which were shutouts. And he's currently rocking a .921 SV% and a 2.18 GAA.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Primeau has 4 wins on the season, 2 of which were shutouts. And he's currently rocking a .921 SV% and a 2.18 GAA.

Awesome. This is exactly what we need from him. Keep putting up these great numbers in Laval, and then maybe get a chance in the NHL next year.

 

[Schwang]

Andersen 7th then redrafted in the 3rd, Khudobin 7th, Miller 5th, Mrazek 5th, Ullmark 6th, Lundqvist 7th, Kuemper 6th, Rinne 8th, Gibson + Saros 4th, Hellebuyck 5th, Smith 5th, Halak 9th, Bobrovsky, Raanta, Talbot, and Georgiev undrafted. It's really not that rare, and that list includes six collective Vezinas.

We've had this discussion before and like I said last time, I don't have a problem with the Habs trying to get better G prospects because you should always be trying to improve everywhere all the time. If there's a goalie they really like in the first 3 rounds then sure, I'd be perfectly happy to add more prospect depth there, but there is nothing inherent about being picked in the first 3 rounds that supposes any sort of guarantee, and I really think you're vastly overrating the depth of goalie prospects around the league if you think Primeau stands out as a uniquely weak top G prospect.

If you think Primeau is overrated that's fine, but make the argument based on his play, and his tools and traits, not his draft position 4 years ago. There's no logical reason to impose an arbitrary ceiling on a goalie prospect (or any position) based on their draft position when we're 4 years out and they have NCAA/AHL track records that outshine their peers. He was the best goalie in Hockey East at 18, best in the NCAA at 19, and has been good in the AHL at 20-22, why should we give a shit that he was picked in the 7th round?

My original argument from the start was about his play. Last season doesn't count (even if it did, his play was mostly mediocre against bad competition). He's really not been as impressive as a professional as most people make him out to be. Like I said, I'll give it this full season to see how he does, but to say he's going to be a top goalie in the NHL is very premature.

 

[JoelWarlord]

My original argument from the start was about his play. Last season doesn't count (even if it did, his play was mostly mediocre against bad competition). He's really not been as impressive as a professional as most people make him out to be. Like I said, I'll give it this full season to see how he does, but to say he's going to be a top goalie in the NHL is very premature.

What are you comparing him against? Which specific goalie prospects do you think are outshining him and why?

I also wouldn't say I or most people predict him as a top goalie in the NHL. The consensus projection and ceiling for him is that of a good starter or a great 1A in a tandem, although I see you've specifically noted top 10-15 in the league as an unrealistic ceiling and I disagree with that because I think that's pretty much exactly the ceiling or projection on him.

 

[austin316]

Can't see Primeau ever making it. His rebound control is absolutely atrocious. Hasn't seemed to improve that aspect of his game at all. He will get eaten alive in the NHL.

 

[Belial]

Awesome. This is exactly what we need from him. Keep putting up these great numbers in Laval, and then maybe get a chance in the NHL next year.

Allen is signed for next season also.

 

[Schwang]

What are you comparing him against? Which specific goalie prospects do you think are outshining him and why?

I also wouldn't say I or most people predict him as a top goalie in the NHL. The consensus projection and ceiling for him is that of a good starter or a great 1A in a tandem, although I see you've specifically noted top 10-15 in the league as an unrealistic ceiling and I disagree with that because I think that's pretty much exactly the ceiling or projection on him.

Someone else made the comment of him being top 10-15. I'm not necessarily comparing him to anyone else, but there are goaltenders that have been drafted since him who have higher ceilings. The guy slipped to the 7th round for a reason.
I don't understand why people aren't worried about the lack of quality goaltender prospects in the Habs organization. How much longer does Price have? Then what?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Someone else made the comment of him being top 10-15. I'm not necessarily comparing him to anyone else, but there are goaltenders that have been drafted since him who have higher ceilings. The guy slipped to the 7th round for a reason.
I don't understand why people aren't worried about the lack of quality goaltender prospects in the Habs organization. How much longer does Price have? Then what?

We're not worried because outside of organizations who have used a top 15 pick on a goaltender, every other team in the league is basically in the same boat as the Habs, most even worse.

Primeau is one of the best goalie prospects outside of the NHL, that's a fact. Yes, he's not gonna be Price and he may never make it - but that's the truth right now. Dobes is also showing some high upside.

For me? If the Habs don't have the next Price right now - I'm thankful for that. I don't wanna be propped up by another generational netminder while the team needs to cultivate talent.

Plus its been shown that elite teams can win with solid goaltending, sure elite goaltending helps and I hope we get another one soon, but not before the rest of the roster is figured out.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Someone else made the comment of him being top 10-15. I'm not necessarily comparing him to anyone else, but there are goaltenders that have been drafted since him who have higher ceilings. The guy slipped to the 7th round for a reason.

Good lord lmao get over the draft position it's been four years, it means NOTHING in 2021. And yes, Knight, Cossa, Askarov, and Wallstedt have higher ceilings, but none were available to us, and Primeau stacks up against anyone outside that top tier of four guys.

I don't understand why people aren't worried about the lack of quality goaltender prospects in the Habs organization. How much longer does Price have? Then what?

Because it doesn't exist. Primeau is at the very worst among the top 10 goalie prospects in the league, and Dobes/Dichow are perfectly fine as random late picks and are as good as the extras anyone has beyond their top guy.

 

[Schwang]

We're not worried because outside of organizations who have used a top 15 pick on a goaltender, every other team in the league is basically in the same boat as the Habs, most even worse.

Primeau is one of the best goalie prospects outside of the NHL, that's a fact. Yes, he's not gonna be Price and he may never make it - but that's the truth right now. Dobes is also showing some high upside.

For me? If the Habs don't have the next Price right now - I'm thankful for that. I don't wanna be propped up by another generational netminder while the team needs to cultivate talent.

Plus its been shown that elite teams can win with solid goaltending, sure elite goaltending helps and I hope we get another one soon, but not before the rest of the roster is figured out.

We may be stuck with an ailing Price for 4 more years at that salary. If you don't have a guy coming up who can take over, and that is young enough that he isn't making a ton of money yet, then how do you propose they can afford to sign another guy to start? Price goes down on a regular basis now. Sure, they grabbed Allen, but he's not a legit starter. Anyone good replacement would cost a least 6 million.
If Primeau isn't the guy, they need to draft someone. Even then, that guy is what, 3 years away.

 

[Schwang]

Good lord lmao get over the draft position it's been four years, it means NOTHING in 2021. And yes, Knight, Cossa, Askarov, and Wallstedt have higher ceilings, but none were available to us, and Primeau stacks up against anyone outside that top tier of four guys.

Because it doesn't exist. Primeau is at the very worst among the top 10 goalie prospects in the league, and Dobes/Dichow are perfectly fine as random late picks and are as good as the extras anyone has beyond their top guy.

I hope I'm wrong. Let's revisit this at the end of Laval's season. Plus, I'm curious to see what happens with Price as well as Allen when his contract is up. If Primeau is that good, then he should be stepping into a regular nhl job soon.

 

[Sagikev]

My original argument from the start was about his play. Last season doesn't count (even if it did, his play was mostly mediocre against bad competition). He's really not been as impressive as a professional as most people make him out to be. Like I said, I'll give it this full season to see how he does, but to say he's going to be a top goalie in the NHL is very premature.

It's not a no-doubt-prediction, it's a potential, his ceiling. He could very well end up being a career AHLer, but his track record so far and his learning curve shows that he could potentially end up as a good starting goaltender. Everywhere he went, he learned at a high pace and grew his game tremendously. Of course, professional hockey is another beast. And sure there are some saying he's a surefire top 10 future goalie, these people are probably overreacting over one game. They'll say the opposite after a slump. Most people who follow prospects knows that it's all about potential and how much the player grows from year to year. We're not expecting him to be an NHL starter right now, but with development (hey at least Habs can develop goalies), he could end up as one.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Right now:

- Dobes has a 1.39 GAA and a .946 SV% after 9 GP

- Dichow has a 2.34 GAA and a .921 SV% after 9 GP

- Vrbetic has a 2.82 GAA and a .901 SV% after 11 GP

- Primeau has a 2.41 GAA and a .916 SV% after 9 GP

- McNiven has a 3.47 GAA and a .878 SV% after 5 GP

 

[montreal]

a good week for the Habs goalie prospects when Primeau, Dichow and Vrbetic all with SO's. Dichow is on fire with 5 wins in a row and has given up 4 goals in that span. Dobes has been outstanding all year, only 1 game where he's given up more then 2 goals (off next weekend), Primeau has been mostly great in Laval the last 2 or so games though he's been at his best.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Adam Michaels]

all of that doesn't mean anything if they are never given an opportunity to play in the NHL

this season is done, Price is gone, there has never been a better time to give these kids some NHL games,

so why not do it?

can they be any worse than montebo?

Who are the kids besides Primeau and McNiven that you believe need to be given NHL games this year?

 

[Adam Michaels]

all im saying is, why bother picking up and playing a waiver goalie like montebo?

why not just play primeau instead?

moves like that make no sense

there could not possibly be a better time to play primeau, these games don't mean anything

so why not give him 10-15 games and see what he can do?

You're getting ahead of yourself. Primeau got called up Saturday night. We're Monday afternoon right now. We'll see how much action Primeau will face. I'm like you, I'd like to see the Habs use this year as an opportunity to let the kids play and experiment with the line-up.

But in Cayden's case specifically, it also depends how long Allen is out for. If he isn't out for long and is back soon, it's better to send Primeau back down to Laval, where he will face a lot of rubber.

But don't forget, Montembeault was claimed off waivers to be a back up. And I'd rather have him with his ass parked at the end of the bench than Primeau.

 

[Adam Michaels]

primeaus playing time shouldn't be dictated by allens return,

the season is done, give primeau a shot regardless of allens condition,

allen isn't going to save our season, or make the playoffs, so who cares?

Allen is the back up. He's paid accordingly. If Price isn't good to go and Allen is, Allen is getting the games. Even if the season continues to go down the shitter, Allen is the guy until Price returns.

Primeau's games will be dictated by Allen's return. Because if Allen isn't good to go, Primeau will most likely get games in the NHL. If Allen is good to go, Primeau will get games in Laval.

Either way, Primeau will get games.

 

[puckeater]

Let's just see what we have in Monty. He's likely trade fodder but let it play out and it could be a bonus. My .02

 

[NeptunesTrident]

I think Vrbetic is a real sleeper who dropped like a rock because the team in front of him was horrific bad.

 

[WeThreeKings]

There is nothing good to be gained by playing with a young goalies confidence by playing him in meaningless games where the team in front is playing like an absolute dumpster fire.