Value of: Goaltender to EDM

[TFHockey]

I think Oilers fans would be thrilled if somehow they could shoehorn Jack Campbell into a deal for another goalie although I am not sure that is at all possible.

I think Philly fans would demand a big return for a guy like Carter Hart glossing over the fact that goalies don't tend to land a lot in trades.

Historically speaking:

2006 Dwayne Roloson traded from Minnesota to Edmonton for a 1st and a 3rd (an expensive rental at the time, Roloson resigned with the team though)
2008 Cristobal Huet traded from Montreal to Washington for a 2nd (Huet takes over as starter for the Caps)
2011 Craig Anderson traded from Colorado to Ottawa for goaltender Brian Elliott
2014 Roberto Luongo traded from Vancouver to Florida along with Steven Anthony for Jacob Markstrom and Shawn Matthias
2015 Devan Dubnyk traded from Arizona to Minnesota for a 3rd (Dubnyk was trying to salvage his career)
2018 Darcy Kuemper traded from L.A. to Arizona for Tobias Reider and Scott Wedgewood (Kuemper was a back up who looked ready to be a starter)
2020 Jack Campbell traded from L.A. to Toronto along with Kyle Clifford for two 3rds. Campbell was a back up with limited games in the NHL
2020 Robin Lehner traded from Chicago to Las Vegas for a 2nd and two mid tier prospects (Demin and Subban)

Typically the goalies that got moved were for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks. Not a lot in terms of return.

More recently *trades for only future considerations ignored, and there were quite a few!

2022 Scott Wedgewood traded from Arizona to Dallas for a 4th
2022 Kappo Kahkonen traded from Minnesota to San Jose for Defenseman Jacob Middleton
2022 Andrew Hammond traded from Montreal for Nate Schnarr
2022 MAF traded to Minnesota from Chicago for a conditional 2nd, turns into a 1st if Minny reaches the WCF and MAF wins 4 games in each round)
2022 Petr Mrazek traded from Toronto along with a 1st round pick (#25) to Chicago for a 2nd
2022 Alexander Georgiev traded from NYR to Colorado for two 3rds and and a 5th
2022 Ville Husso traded from St. Louis to Detroit for a 3rd
2022 Adin Hill traded from SJS to Las Vegas for a 4th

Again, we're seeing mostly 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks being moved. Very few starters are moving though.

Some examples from this season:

2023 Keith Kinkaid traded from Boston to Colorado for Shane Bowers
2023 Johnathon Quick traded to CBJ along with a conditional 1st and a 3rd from the Kings for Joonas Korpisalo and Vladislav Gavrikov
2023 Johnathon Quick flipped to Las Vegas for Michael Hutchinson
2023 Mackenzie Blackwood traded to SJS from NJD for a 6th

So again the returns for goaltenders isn't great, but very few star goaltenders get moved. It is hard to determine the right cost for Hart as a result, but I think calling for multiple firsts or star players isn't very realistic. The same goes for Saros or whatever puckstopper you want to target. The goaltender market has rarely included 1sts and in the past 10 years they are usually conditional. In some cases a 1st was included to get RID of a goaltender. Oiler fans take note of this for considering what it would take to move Jack Campbell.

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[JRichard]

I think Oilers fans would be thrilled if somehow they could shoehorn Jack Campbell into a deal for another goalie although I am not sure that is at all possible.

I think Philly fans would demand a big return for a guy like Carter Hart glossing over the fact that goalies don't tend to land a lot in trades.

Historically speaking:

2006 Dwayne Roloson traded from Minnesota to Edmonton for a 1st and a 3rd (an expensive rental at the time, Roloson resigned with the team though)
2008 Cristobal Huet traded from Montreal to Washington for a 2nd (Huet takes over as starter for the Caps)
2011 Craig Anderson traded from Colorado to Ottawa for goaltender Brian Elliott
2014 Roberto Luongo traded from Vancouver to Florida along with Steven Anthony for Jacob Markstrom and Shawn Matthias
2015 Devan Dubnyk traded from Arizona to Minnesota for a 3rd (Dubnyk was trying to salvage his career)
2018 Darcy Kuemper traded from L.A. to Arizona for Tobias Reider and Scott Wedgewood (Kuemper was a back up who looked ready to be a starter)
2020 Jack Campbell traded from L.A. to Toronto along with Kyle Clifford for two 3rds. Campbell was a back up with limited games in the NHL
2020 Robin Lehner traded from Chicago to Las Vegas for a 2nd and two mid tier prospects (Demin and Subban)

Typically the goalies that got moved were for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks. Not a lot in terms of return.

More recently *trades for only future considerations ignored, and there were quite a few!

2022 Scott Wedgewood traded from Arizona to Dallas for a 4th
2022 Kappo Kahkonen traded from Minnesota to San Jose for Defenseman Jacob Middleton
2022 Andrew Hammond traded from Montreal for Nate Schnarr
2022 MAF traded to Minnesota from Chicago for a conditional 2nd, turns into a 1st if Minny reaches the WCF and MAF wins 4 games in each round)
2022 Petr Mrazek traded from Toronto along with a 1st round pick (#25) to Chicago for a 2nd
2022 Alexander Georgiev traded from NYR to Colorado for two 3rds and and a 5th
2022 Ville Husso traded from St. Louis to Detroit for a 3rd
2022 Adin Hill traded from SJS to Las Vegas for a 4th

Again, we're seeing mostly 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks being moved. Very few starters are moving though.

Some examples from this season:

2023 Keith Kinkaid traded from Boston to Colorado for Shane Bowers
2023 Johnathon Quick traded to CBJ along with a conditional 1st and a 3rd from the Kings for Joonas Korpisalo and Vladislav Gavrikov
2023 Johnathon Quick flipped to Las Vegas for Michael Hutchinson
2023 Mackenzie Blackwood traded to SJS from NJD for a 6th

So again the returns for goaltenders isn't great, but very few star goaltenders get moved. It is hard to determine the right cost for Hart as a result, but I think calling for multiple firsts or star players isn't very realistic. The same goes for Saros or whatever puckstopper you want to target. The goaltender market has rarely included 1sts and in the past 10 years they are usually conditional. In some cases a 1st was included to get RID of a goaltender. Oiler fans take note of this for considering what it would take to move Jack Campbell.

Huge work there. But what for. Whats the offer for Hart to Edm?
A 6th like Blackwood?
a 4th like Hill?
A 3rd like Dubnyk?

 

[IIxGURUxII]

A 1st and a 3rd is what i expect it would take to be Campbell
SJ would be my pick of a trading partner

Edm receives
Kahkonen

SJ receives
1st, 3rd for taking on Campbell
2nd and Youth goalie in system for Kahkonen

 

[Voight]

Huge work there. But what for. Whats the offer for Hart to Edm?
A 6th like Blackwood?
a 4th like Hill?
A 3rd like Dubnyk?

I imagine the price will be higher than that. Hart is in the midst of his prime, is 26 next summer and looks to have regained his form after a couple of rough seasons.

 

[AvroArrow]

Ilya Samsonov is available

 

[JRichard]

I imagine the price will be higher than that. Hart is in the midst of his prime, is 26 next summer and looks to have regained his form after a couple of rough seasons.

Of course. Waiting for an offer on Hart. doubt i’ll be tempted. Did all that work to prepare me for a low return. Not even asking for multiple firsts or star player.

 

[bernmeister]

you are stuck w/Soup for now -- simply just a little too much $$$ and term to move

If you are desperate for cap flexibility, eating Nurse at half and paying a suitor to take on that term is possible.
But not soup.

As to an upgrade, not seeing who is readily available and at cheap cost.

nyr could offer Domingue, but if return too low -- which I get -- then he is worth more to us as injury insurance, even tho I personally believe Garand is not far from stepping in if the Martians kidnapped anybody.

 

[Mrfenn92]

you are stuck w/Soup for now -- simply just a little too much $$$ and term to move

If you are desperate for cap flexibility, eating Nurse at half and paying a suitor to take on that term is possible.
But not soup.

As to an upgrade, not seeing who is readily available and at cheap cost.

nyr could offer Domingue, but if return too low -- which I get -- then he is worth more to us as injury insurance, even tho I personally believe Garand is not far from stepping in if the Martians kidnapped anybody.

That’s a silly thing to even propose the oilers doing. Retaining half and paying for another team to take the other half.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Ok for real this time:

To Edm: Saros

To Nash: Broberg, Holloway, Skinner

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Ok for real this time:

To Edm: Saros

To Nash: Broberg, Holloway, Skinner

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but why would Nashville?

 

[Bobby9]

To Oilers:

Demko
Myers

To Canucks:
Drai
Campbell

 

[bernmeister]

That’s a silly thing to even propose the oilers doing. Retaining half and paying for another team to take the other half.

Go look at Nurse term + $$$$$

If Oil not severely cap constrained, sure, why do it.

Even now, gotta think 2x +

Howev, if it is ultimately determined that cap flexibility is an inescapable need
If no other options, then....

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Seriously, all you guys need to do is run into the opposition's goalie causing unintentional injury

the cup, then, is all yours

 

[Double Dion]

I think Oilers fans would be thrilled if somehow they could shoehorn Jack Campbell into a deal for another goalie although I am not sure that is at all possible.

I think Philly fans would demand a big return for a guy like Carter Hart glossing over the fact that goalies don't tend to land a lot in trades.

Historically speaking:

2006 Dwayne Roloson traded from Minnesota to Edmonton for a 1st and a 3rd (an expensive rental at the time, Roloson resigned with the team though)
2008 Cristobal Huet traded from Montreal to Washington for a 2nd (Huet takes over as starter for the Caps)
2011 Craig Anderson traded from Colorado to Ottawa for goaltender Brian Elliott
2014 Roberto Luongo traded from Vancouver to Florida along with Steven Anthony for Jacob Markstrom and Shawn Matthias
2015 Devan Dubnyk traded from Arizona to Minnesota for a 3rd (Dubnyk was trying to salvage his career)
2018 Darcy Kuemper traded from L.A. to Arizona for Tobias Reider and Scott Wedgewood (Kuemper was a back up who looked ready to be a starter)
2020 Jack Campbell traded from L.A. to Toronto along with Kyle Clifford for two 3rds. Campbell was a back up with limited games in the NHL
2020 Robin Lehner traded from Chicago to Las Vegas for a 2nd and two mid tier prospects (Demin and Subban)

Typically the goalies that got moved were for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks. Not a lot in terms of return.

More recently *trades for only future considerations ignored, and there were quite a few!

2022 Scott Wedgewood traded from Arizona to Dallas for a 4th
2022 Kappo Kahkonen traded from Minnesota to San Jose for Defenseman Jacob Middleton
2022 Andrew Hammond traded from Montreal for Nate Schnarr
2022 MAF traded to Minnesota from Chicago for a conditional 2nd, turns into a 1st if Minny reaches the WCF and MAF wins 4 games in each round)
2022 Petr Mrazek traded from Toronto along with a 1st round pick (#25) to Chicago for a 2nd
2022 Alexander Georgiev traded from NYR to Colorado for two 3rds and and a 5th
2022 Ville Husso traded from St. Louis to Detroit for a 3rd
2022 Adin Hill traded from SJS to Las Vegas for a 4th

Again, we're seeing mostly 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks being moved. Very few starters are moving though.

Some examples from this season:

2023 Keith Kinkaid traded from Boston to Colorado for Shane Bowers
2023 Johnathon Quick traded to CBJ along with a conditional 1st and a 3rd from the Kings for Joonas Korpisalo and Vladislav Gavrikov
2023 Johnathon Quick flipped to Las Vegas for Michael Hutchinson
2023 Mackenzie Blackwood traded to SJS from NJD for a 6th

So again the returns for goaltenders isn't great, but very few star goaltenders get moved. It is hard to determine the right cost for Hart as a result, but I think calling for multiple firsts or star players isn't very realistic. The same goes for Saros or whatever puckstopper you want to target. The goaltender market has rarely included 1sts and in the past 10 years they are usually conditional. In some cases a 1st was included to get RID of a goaltender. Oiler fans take note of this for considering what it would take to move Jack Campbell.

I mean I think you're talking a lot more than a late 1st and 3rd to move Campbell. It has cost a 1st to move 1 YEAR of better players. It cost a 1st to dump Monahan, a middle 6 NHL C. It cost a 1st to dump Marleau, a middle 6 NHL wing. I think you're talking 2 1st minimum to dump Campbell, probably more.

That said, it depends on what the goalie is that you're getting back. A legit starter that fits into Edmonton's cap structure would be extremely expensive. A 1B guy and having the team take back Foegele is much cheaper I would think. I still think the Oilers need a blueliner too. A guy who can defend top 6 forwards and make the first pass.

 

[Soundgarden]

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but why would Nashville?

We don't

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Go look at Nurse term + $$$$$

If Oil not severely cap constrained, sure, why do it.

Even now, gotta think 2x +

Howev, if it is ultimately determined that cap flexibility is an inescapable need
If no other options, then....

Oilers aren’t eating 4.6m to trade their best D man. We aren’t that desperate for cap space

Your idea sucks

And we sure as hell wouldn’t be paying someone to take nurse on at 4.6

 

[belair]

you are stuck w/Soup for now -- simply just a little too much $$$ and term to move

If you are desperate for cap flexibility, eating Nurse at half and paying a suitor to take on that term is possible.
But not soup.

As to an upgrade, not seeing who is readily available and at cheap cost.

nyr could offer Domingue, but if return too low -- which I get -- then he is worth more to us as injury insurance, even tho I personally believe Garand is not far from stepping in if the Martians kidnapped anybody.

What are you talking about?

 

[TFHockey]

Huge work there. But what for. Whats the offer for Hart to Edm?
A 6th like Blackwood?
a 4th like Hill?
A 3rd like Dubnyk?

Well I tried to show comparables for legit starters but they really don't get moved all that often. The guys who do get moved are back ups who look ready to step up or middling goaltender swaps.

Those kinds of players go for meh assets, the very best being a 2nd or a conditional first, which is super rare.

As for Hart and Saros? Other than maybe Luongo or MAF do any of those names above scream starter? Edit: Opps, forgot Lehner.

Keep in mind both those guys went for a hell of a lot less than what has been suggested on here or by the media. Way less.

I left out about a dozen goalies who went for future considerations over the past few years.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

We don't

All 3 of those pieces would be guys the same poster would be plugging in outgoing proposals a month after the trade went down.

 

[Double Dion]

Oilers aren’t eating 4.6m to trade their best D man. We aren’t that desperate for cap space

Your idea sucks

And we sure as hell wouldn’t be paying someone to take nurse on at 4.6

Doesn't Ekholm make 6M? And why/how would they retain 4.6M on him when 50% is the max? And what does Nurse have to do with Ekholm?

 

[TFHockey]

Seriously, all you guys need to do is run into the opposition's goalie causing unintentional injury

the cup, then, is all yours

Ah, the Carolina strategy to win a cup. Oiler fans know this one all too well.

I mean I think you're talking a lot more than a late 1st and 3rd to move Campbell. It has cost a 1st to move 1 YEAR of better players. It cost a 1st to dump Monahan, a middle 6 NHL C. It cost a 1st to dump Marleau, a middle 6 NHL wing. I think you're talking 2 1st minimum to dump Campbell, probably more.

That said, it depends on what the goalie is that you're getting back. A legit starter that fits into Edmonton's cap structure would be extremely expensive. A 1B guy and having the team take back Foegele is much cheaper I would think. I still think the Oilers need a blueliner too. A guy who can defend top 6 forwards and make the first pass.

I think the Oilers will be unable to move Campbell this year. Maybe next or the year after. Or maybe a buyout.

As I demonstrated in the original post Goalies don't go for a lot in this league which is really, really, weird considering when you have below average goaltending it is painfully obvious to everyone.

 

[JRichard]

Well I tried to show comparables for legit starters but they really don't get moved all that often. The guys who do get moved are back ups who look ready to step up or middling goaltender swaps.

Those kinds of players go for meh assets, the very best being a 2nd or a conditional first, which is super rare.

As for Hart and Saros? Other than maybe Luongo or MAF do any of those names above scream starter? Edit: Opps, forgot Lehner.

Keep in mind both those guys went for a hell of a lot less than what has been suggested on here or by the media. Way less.

I left out about a dozen goalies who went for future considerations over the past few years.

I appreciate the work. Not sure what Philly fans or medias are saying on a potential Hart return. But 100% he is not leaving for those returns. I have yet to see an offer for Hart so i guess its just the same for lets say Swayman about same age. Player is not overpriced, unhappy or struggling.

 

[Double Dion]

Ah, the Carolina strategy to win a cup. Oiler fans know this one all too well.



I think the Oilers will be unable to move Campbell this year. Maybe next or the year after. Or maybe a buyout.

As I demonstrated in the original post Goalies don't go for a lot in this league which is really, really, weird considering when you have below average goaltending it is painfully obvious to everyone.

I think if you're talking a Hart/Saros type of youngish starter that trend would change. Look at what Schneider went for if you want a comparable for that type. I know for me I'd trade Markstrom for a 2nd and 4th. If you wanted Wolf you'd need to send me a high end prospect or top 10 pick.

 

[TFHockey]

I think if you're talking a Hart/Saros type of youngish starter that trend would change. Look at what Schneider went for if you want a comparable for that type. I know for me I'd trade Markstrom for a 2nd and 4th. If you wanted Wolf you'd need to send me a high end prospect or top 10 pick.

This is kind of my point. Based on the trades we've seen in the past Wolf would go for around a 2nd. Markstrom would probably go for a 3rd? 3rd and a 5th? Goalies get undervalued in this league, possibly because so few of them are consistently good. Those that are don't get moved for the most part.

I appreciate the work. Not sure what Philly fans or medias are saying on a potential Hart return. But 100% he is not leaving for those returns. I have yet to see an offer for Hart so i guess its just the same for lets say Swayman about same age. Player is not overpriced, unhappy or struggling.

I think the Hart proposals on here reflect how much the Philly fans love him and how consistently good he is. That being said if we look at all of the trades over the past 8-10 years he wouldn't return what the fans are expecting or hoping for. Ditto Saros.

 

[JRichard]

This is kind of my point. Based on the trades we've seen in the past Wolf would go for around a 2nd. Markstrom would probably go for a 3rd? 3rd and a 5th? Goalies get undervalued in this league, possibly because so few of them are consistently good. Those that are don't get moved for the most part.



I think the Hart proposals on here reflect how much the Philly fans love him and how consistently good he is. That being said if we look at all of the trades over the past 8-10 years he wouldn't return what the fans are expecting or hoping for. Ditto Saros.

Yes you keep saying they will be underwhelmed by the offers in here. But what offers are you seeing cause i didnt see any. All i’m saying. Maybe i missed them. Keep reading returns are low on goalies and they are.