Value of: Goalie to Carolina
- Thread starter The Faulker
- Start date
Cypher
Registered User
Maurice of Orange
13:21 🏒🏒
- Feb 5, 2016
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Finlandia WOAT
No blocks, No slappers
- May 23, 2010
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lanceuppercut75
Registered User
How desperate is Detroit getting to shed that Jimmy Howard contract?
BICKELL + LACK
for
HOWARD + SHEAHAN
Works out great for Carolina and makes that cap problem disappear for Detroit - once Bickell is re-traded or plays out his final year.
BICKELL + LACK
for
HOWARD + SHEAHAN
Works out great for Carolina and makes that cap problem disappear for Detroit - once Bickell is re-traded or plays out his final year.
drw02
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2013
- 5,736
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Nah, if Howard keeps this up for half a season he might have some actual trade value, especially if retained, and not just a dump. In the meantime Wings are fine having two great options in goal and going for the playoffs. It's not really surprising to Wings fans, the guys a good goalie overpaid by about 1-1.5M, yet some people act like he's AHL trash.
- May 1, 2011
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Howard has been almost as bad, if not as bad as Ward over the last 3 years.
Howard since 13-14 has a .910 save percentage, Ward has a .906 save percentage since 13-14.
The biggest difference is that Ward has sucked since the 12-13, while Howard didn't start sucking until 13-14. Not to mention that Howard has has an exceptionally strong start to 16-17, while Ward has had a rotten and disastrous start to 16-17, even by his own standards in recent years. I don't expect Howard to play this strongly the whole season, I think he'll regress to a .910 goaltender. Ward will likely progress to a .905-.910 goaltender, I don't expect him to sustain quite this level of horrid play. Although who knows, he's been terrible for years now and is bound to completely seize up and send a rod through the pan.
All in all, trading Ward or Lack for Howard is kind of like trading Ward or Lack for another Ward or Lack. Howard in 2016 is much more similar to Ward than people seem to think.
If it was for just this year, it might be worth the try in giving Howard a change of scenery. 2 more years after this (I think?) is too much term left on a goaltender that they're hoping isn't as bad as he's been for the last 3 years. May as well stick with 2 more years for Ward, at a much friendlier cap hit. Unless Ward declines even more or Howard plays better than he has in 4 years, the difference in the two is not significant. It's just more of the same for the Canes, which is more **** goaltending that completely murders them and takes them out of games, despite a pretty decent system of play.
Howard since 13-14 has a .910 save percentage, Ward has a .906 save percentage since 13-14.
The biggest difference is that Ward has sucked since the 12-13, while Howard didn't start sucking until 13-14. Not to mention that Howard has has an exceptionally strong start to 16-17, while Ward has had a rotten and disastrous start to 16-17, even by his own standards in recent years. I don't expect Howard to play this strongly the whole season, I think he'll regress to a .910 goaltender. Ward will likely progress to a .905-.910 goaltender, I don't expect him to sustain quite this level of horrid play. Although who knows, he's been terrible for years now and is bound to completely seize up and send a rod through the pan.
All in all, trading Ward or Lack for Howard is kind of like trading Ward or Lack for another Ward or Lack. Howard in 2016 is much more similar to Ward than people seem to think.
If it was for just this year, it might be worth the try in giving Howard a change of scenery. 2 more years after this (I think?) is too much term left on a goaltender that they're hoping isn't as bad as he's been for the last 3 years. May as well stick with 2 more years for Ward, at a much friendlier cap hit. Unless Ward declines even more or Howard plays better than he has in 4 years, the difference in the two is not significant. It's just more of the same for the Canes, which is more **** goaltending that completely murders them and takes them out of games, despite a pretty decent system of play.
- May 1, 2011
- 133,784
- 63,713
Putting myself in the shoes of a Wings fan, I'd LOVE to either trade him or hope he plays well enough this year that the expansion team in Las Vegas picks him up.
Putting myself in the shoes of a Canes fan, he's the last goaltender I'd wanna trade for. The difference in between him and Ward over the last 4 years is not much. Not to mention that Howard was outplayed my Mrazek for two years, while Ward still managed to be the less suckier option in net for his team over the last 2 years, as if that was even possible.
lanceuppercut75
Registered User
Sorry guys, a little off topic here. I was under the impression that DET needed to shed cap? I read somewhere that with Franzen on LTIR you guys are still over cap, but since Kronwall is now out, you're under the cap.
Based on that, would you not have to trade a player that's good (or one Holland thinks is good) once Kronwall comes back? Nyquist, Howard, Helm, Abdelkader, Kronwall, Ericsson?
I guess what I'm getting at is... would they really be content to trade another good player (or a player Holland thinks is good) just to keep Howard? Doesn't seem like good cap management for a team in the playoff hunt.
WesMcCauley
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2015
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Just trade for Fleury. Will go for a discount because Pens need him gone for the expansion draft. Send Lack or Ward in return+NYR 2nd and its a win-win situation
AD Skinner
Registered User
I'd have to think the canes are interested in any goalie that could reliably put up sv% in the 900s. Neither goalie has hit that mark yet this season.
Tripod
I hate this team
Re-signing Ward was such a dumb move. He has been bad for years, yet they sign him to a 2 year deal.
Canes fans tried to defend the deal based in how Ward ended last season. They had a chance to upgrade goaltending in the summer, and didn't. Not sure what they expected.
At least there are some teams looking to move some goalies...but now they have to waste more assets AND spend 3+ million on Ward.
Canes fans tried to defend the deal based in how Ward ended last season. They had a chance to upgrade goaltending in the summer, and didn't. Not sure what they expected.
At least there are some teams looking to move some goalies...but now they have to waste more assets AND spend 3+ million on Ward.
This was pretty much the start of last season on-repeat, after which they both played decent.
This suggests, to me at-least, that the problem may not be the personnel as much as the goaltending coaching and conditioning programs. The starter is clearly gassed by the end of the 2nd most nights...someone isn't doing their job of getting Ward/Lack in game-ready shape for day-1 and it's not a new problem.
CAR can have Halak.
Isles wouldn't need any return. Salary relief should be enough.
Halak was good in the wcoh.
Fleury just crapped his pants and why help PIT, they should buy him out and keep his cap hit.
Isles wouldn't need any return. Salary relief should be enough.
Halak was good in the wcoh.
Fleury just crapped his pants and why help PIT, they should buy him out and keep his cap hit.
CandyCanes
Caniac turned Jerkiac
- Jan 8, 2015
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Hold up it wasn't us Canes fans that all stared "Ward had a good second half", it was our GM Rob Francis that initially stated that comment.
WTG
December 5th
I think the problem with the goaltending in Carolina is the goaltending coach and not the goaltenders.
Lack was solid as a rock here in Van.
Lack was solid as a rock here in Van.
golffuul
Registered User
- Oct 24, 2011
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Howard still has value, and his recent play (1GA in 2 starts) shows that. And don't be lost to the idea that a lot of Howard's "ability" is also tied very heavily to the D-corps that's in front of him. After Detroit lost Lidstrom, Howard's "consistency" started to wane and when that happened, so did his confidence. He has shown that he can carry a team for stretches at a time, but a team will need a solid backup to make their job easier as he simply can't play a heavy load for a season.
Not going to argue at all that Carolina, even with all its depth at defence, is probably not a good fit for Howard. And depending on what happens with Fleury, I think he is all but taken by Las Vegas as their starting goaltender. If his cap hit were more reasonable, he would have been gone over the summer probably. Bad contract at a bad time for Holland, which is his M.O. of the past 5+ years.
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
I don't think he'd have a problem going to Carolina, I just don't think JR would want to trade Fleury in the division and I don't see Karmanos letting the Canes make any sort of substantial trade with the Penguins anytime soon.
Yeah, the team trading for a fringe top-10 goalie in hockey wouldn't be getting any benefit out of trading for Fleury. Yeah, sure
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Not trading Sheahan to move Howard's contract, More then likely any ways Sheahan could be an expansion casualty to Las Vegas next summer. Would just rather keep Howard then make this trade.
