GDT: [GM52] Canucks @ Red Wings | Sat. Feb 10th, 10:00am | SNP | Reset & Reload

[David71]

time for a bounceback game from the big boys especially petterson.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I really don't get it. Apart from against Carolina, he looks like he needs a long break. They acquired Lindholm, seemingly, to play with Pettersson. Everytime they've tried Hoglander with Pettersson it's ended very quickly. Suter is still generating chances with Miller and Boeser. Just odd.

Not really opposed to trying out different looks but this seems antithetical to past experience.

It just boggles the mind. I suppose Tocchet likes the defensive aspects Mikheyev provides. Which, in theory, should be an asset to someone like Pettersson who typically is a shoot first type center. Except... his "shoot first" style is more "let someone else set me up and I rocket it towards the net". That isn't something Mikheyev can do even on his best day. He has absolutely zero offensive vision.

Even moving him down to Miller and Boeser's line if they must keep him in the top six would make a little more sense. Let the two of them play more aggressively while benefiting from Mikheyev's speed.

But I really just don't get the averse to giving Hoglander a chance in the top six. I mean, what more does the kid have to do? He's at 20 points in 49 games playing only 11 minutes on average with Lafferty who's been struggling mightily lately and Aman who is fine.

I don't like compliment the Leafs but at least they're putting Knies in a position to succeed despite his frequent struggles this season. Hoglander is succeeding in spite of getting very little opportunity. I'm not even asking for a long stint. Just give the kid a game or two to see if something gels. We're first in the damn league. Who cares if it doesn't work out and we lose a game?

Better than trying Stoney McGee for the 100th time and hoping something finally changes.

 

[wonton15]

Petey Miller Boeser
Joshua Lindholm Garland
Suter Blueger Mikheyev
Hoglander Aman Lafferty

Hear me out…

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Petey Miller Boeser
Joshua Lindholm Garland
Suter Blueger Mikheyev
Hoglander Aman Lafferty

Hear me out…

Swap Mikheyev and Hoglander and I honestly don't hate it. Otherwise, what did Blueger do to you to deserve this?

 

[wonton15]

Swap Mikheyev and Hoglander and I honestly don't hate it. Otherwise, what did Blueger do to you to deserve this?

Nothing - the way Joshua and Garland have been playing at a legitimate 2nd line level makes a lot of sense to try an even stronger center in Lindholm. This lets us run the Lotto Line and also keep a strong Blueger at 3C with dependable wingers in Suter and Mikheyev. Also gets Mikheyev out of the “top 6”.

I know it’s not popular to break up our third line but I’d love to see them try this

 

[Bleach Clean]

This will be a tough game. The defense will be tested.

Going to be watching Zadarov and Myers more closely in this one. Soucy can't get healthy soon enough.

Want to see the following lines:

Miller-Lindholm-Garland
Mikheyev-Pettersson-Boeser
Joshua-Blueger-Hoglander
PDG-Suter-Lafferty

Give Mikheyev this weekend to generate with a new winger, and then drop him to the 3rd line if it doesn't work.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

This board always needs a scape goat.

Mikheyev literally hasn't played a single healthy shift with the Canucks. He f***ed up his knee in exhibition last year, played on it for awhile (remember the absolute scandals and hair pulling about that?), and that surgery almost always carries about a year long hangover.

Mikheyev is a guy with an absolutely superlative skill (speed) and we haven't seen it yet. But if you've played any high level sport, you also know that trusting your body is absolute imperative when it comes to making game reads and playing your best.

So that he is somewhat diminished isn't a surprise.

But he's still big and fast (just not fast by his standards), and he is entirely coachable. He can be relied on to be where he is supposed to be when he is supposed to be there, he wins most of his battles, and does a pretty effective job at shutting down opponents speedy forwards.

Benching him or moving him to the 4th line doesn't really make a lot of sense unless it's strictly for health reasons because the problem isn't that he isn't trying. It's that his body is regaining strength and his mind is regaining trust in his body.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

This board always needs a scape goat.

Mikheyev literally hasn't played a single healthy shift with the Canucks. He f***ed up his knee in exhibition last year, played on it for awhile (remember the absolute scandals and hair pulling about that?), and that surgery almost always carries about a year long hangover.

Mikheyev is a guy with an absolutely superlative skill (speed) and we haven't seen it yet. But if you've played any high level sport, you also know that trusting your body is absolute imperative when it comes to making game reads and playing your best.

So that he is somewhat diminished isn't a surprise.

But he's still big and fast (just not fast by his standards), and he is entirely coachable. He can be relied on to be where he is supposed to be when he is supposed to be there, he wins most of his battles, and does a pretty effective job at shutting down opponents speedy forwards.

Benching him or moving him to the 4th line doesn't really make a lot of sense unless it's strictly for health reasons because the problem isn't that he isn't trying. It's that his body is regaining strength and his mind is regaining trust in his body.

Even if we acknowledge the injury being a significant factor, it doesn't change the fact he's been objectively terrible for most of the season. At least from an offensive perspective. He's been stapled to Pettersson almost the entire season and generated absolutely nothing.

In fact, in the last the last fifteen games, he's put up three, three assists. That's it. He hasn't scored since December 17th. How is it scapegoating to say he's been horrible from a productive standpoint? For reference sake, Hoglander is 4-1 in that same fifteen game span.

So please explain why a player, regardless of injuries, producing less than a "fourth liner" shouldn't be demoted? Yes, I'm aware Mikheyev has other "intangibles" aka his speed. They aren't anywhere near good enough to offset the complete blackhole he is offensive. Kuzmenko was benched for less.

All that said, I'm going to call question to the injury excuse itself. Toronto fans routinely criticised Mikheyev for exactly the same reasons we are now. And if you look up his production with them, it wasn't great there either.

None of this is to say his injury isn't an issue for him but it's neither the sole reason for his horrendous production nor does it matter in the here and now. All that matters this season is he's not producing yet keeps being gifted top six minutes.

If Boeser went nearly 20 games without scoring a single goal, I'd be advocating to get him off Miller's line too. At some point, you just have to acknowledge a player isn't working. We did that with Kuzmenko. Why is Mikheyev special?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Even if we acknowledge the injury being a significant factor, it doesn't change the fact he's been objectively terrible for most of the season. At least from an offensive perspective. He's been stapled to Pettersson almost the entire season and generated absolutely nothing.

In fact, in the last the last fifteen games, he's put up three, three assists. That's it. He hasn't scored since December 17th. How is it scapegoating to say he's been horrible from a productive standpoint? For reference sake, Hoglander is 4-1 in that same fifteen game span.

So please explain why a player, regardless of injuries, producing less than a "fourth liner" shouldn't be demoted? Yes, I'm aware Mikheyev has other "intangibles" aka his speed. They aren't anywhere near good enough to offset the complete blackhole he is offensive. Kuzmenko was benched for less.

All that said, I'm going to call question to the injury excuse itself. Toronto fans routinely criticised Mikheyev for exactly the same reasons we are now. And if you look up his production with them, it wasn't great there either.

None of this is to say his injury isn't an issue for him but it's neither the sole reason for his horrendous production nor does it matter in the here and now. All that matters this season is he's not producing yet keeps being gifted top six minutes.

If Boeser went nearly 20 games without scoring a single goal, I'd be advocating to get him off Miller's line too. At some point, you just have to acknowledge a player isn't working. We did that with Kuzmenko. Why is Mikheyev special?

I'm not suggesting he's a sacred cow who could never be moved out of the top 6. But our '3rd line' is playing like a first line, so you're not displacing that. And he's too useful to place on the 4th line, as we've seen how a guy like Lafferty (whom I really like) can't hang up in the top 6 for long. So you're left with playing him in the position he is in, unless you're desperate to see him with Miller.

You comparing him to Kuzmenko shows, to me, a fundamental misunderstanding of Mikheyev's value. It's not just about counting stats (and no, I'm not saying 3 assists is enough over the last 15 games). Mikheyev goes where he should, forechecks like a demon, and wins battles. Kuzmenko was dealt because he did none of those things this year. Kuzmenko wasn't scoring, and wasn't doing anything positive except for below the hash marks when he had the puck and some time. So it's not remotely an apples to apples comparison.

Let me add, I think Kuzmenko will find his game again. I think his Eat/Pray/Love trip to Bali really f***ed with his fitness and he couldn't catch up. He's been an absolute lick when it has come to speed and puck battles this year in a way he wasn't last year. Good chance he finds his game next year, or even thrives mutually with Huberdeau this season since their styles suit each other quite well. Could see Kuzmenko in the Dadonov role, and Huberdeau thrived with Dadonov for a couple of seasons (didn't hurt they had Barkov between them, though).

But in terms of earning ice-time this season, there is no contest between Kuzmenko and Mikheyev this season unless you are exclusively going by boxcar stats.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Petey Miller Boeser
Joshua Lindholm Garland
Suter Blueger Mikheyev
Hoglander Aman Lafferty

Hear me out…

I actually like that a lot. A couple of changes:

Hoglander-Blueger-Lafferty
Mikheyev-Suter-Aman

Suter playing down the middle would be ideal.

Garland and Joshua have really good chemistry, I want to see how much more they can do with a center of Lindholm’s skill.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I think part of the problem is Pettersson and not Mik or Kuz.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I don't like breaking up the third line.

I think Blueger is very underrated on this board.

Lotto line
Hoglander-Lindholm-Mikheyev
Joshua-Blueger-Garland
Aman/Di Giuseppe-Suter-Lafferty

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

As crazy as it sounds.... I wouldn't mind moving away from Pettersson and Boeser... I just don't see them as intense enough players and they have that kind of soft, fold under pressure style and history that I see us moving away from here.

I hope I'm wrong.

I just see guys like Miller, Suter, Lafferty, Garland, Joshua, Blueger, Hoglander, etc. As Tocchet guys who play aggressively, physically and skate their asses off and I dunno....

 

[Baby Pettersson]

As crazy as it sounds.... I wouldn't mind moving away from Pettersson and Boeser... I just don't see them as intense enough players and they have that kind of soft, fold under pressure style and history that I see us moving away from here.

I hope I'm wrong.

I just see guys like Miller, Suter, Lafferty, Garland, Joshua, Blueger, Hoglander, etc. As Tocchet guys who play aggressively, physically and skate their asses off and I dunno....

Fair point. But who's replacing all those goals/points. I feel like we are taking them for granted.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

As crazy as it sounds.... I wouldn't mind moving away from Pettersson and Boeser... I just don't see them as intense enough players and they have that kind of soft, fold under pressure style and history that I see us moving away from here.

I hope I'm wrong.

I just see guys like Miller, Suter, Lafferty, Garland, Joshua, Blueger, Hoglander, etc. As Tocchet guys who play aggressively, physically and skate their asses off and I dunno....

It seems the only linemate Pettersson can succeed with is Miller... because Miller makes his line mates better and that's what elite players do. Pettersson doesn't make his linemates better and everyone he plays with seems to struggle. Maybe Kuz and Mik and Hoglander and Suter and such aren't the problem.. maybe it's their center.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I'm not suggesting he's a sacred cow who could never be moved out of the top 6. But our '3rd line' is playing like a first line, so you're not displacing that. And he's too useful to place on the 4th line, as we've seen how a guy like Lafferty (whom I really like) can't hang up in the top 6 for long. So you're left with playing him in the position he is in, unless you're desperate to see him with Miller.

You comparing him to Kuzmenko shows, to me, a fundamental misunderstanding of Mikheyev's value. It's not just about counting stats (and no, I'm not saying 3 assists is enough over the last 15 games). Mikheyev goes where he should, forechecks like a demon, and wins battles. Kuzmenko was dealt because he did none of those things this year. Kuzmenko wasn't scoring, and wasn't doing anything positive except for below the hash marks when he had the puck and some time. So it's not remotely an apples to apples comparison.

Let me add, I think Kuzmenko will find his game again. I think his Eat/Pray/Love trip to Bali really f***ed with his fitness and he couldn't catch up. He's been an absolute lick when it has come to speed and puck battles this year in a way he wasn't last year. Good chance he finds his game next year, or even thrives mutually with Huberdeau this season since their styles suit each other quite well. Could see Kuzmenko in the Dadonov role, and Huberdeau thrived with Dadonov for a couple of seasons (didn't hurt they had Barkov between them, though).

But in terms of earning ice-time this season, there is no contest between Kuzmenko and Mikheyev this season unless you are exclusively going by boxcar stats.

You misunderstood my comparison. I used Kuzmenko as an example of a player who simply wasn't working for one reason or another not that he and Mikheyev are one and the same. Mikheyev has been the better player. Hence why I didn't say we should dump him whereas that's exactly what we did with Kuzmenko.

That doesn't change the fact Mikheyev isn't working. His forechecking and speed doesn't matter when it isn't producing results. Garland is a absolute thief with how good he is at poke checking and possession. It didn't matter when he was slotted on Pettersson's wing because they had zero chemistry. Now you could attribute fault to Pettersson in either scenario but at some point you have to try something different.

My issue with Mikheyev is he isn't working, hasn't worked and yet he's still in the top six--and practically glued to Pettersson despite being horrendous. His forechecking and speed would actually be more valuable on the fourth line, which has been getting hemmed in a lot lately. It isn't helping Pettersson whatsoever.

So try him with Miller/Boeser or hell, give it one more shot with Pettersson and do:

Mikheyev - Pettersson - Miller (or swap them)
Suter - Lindholm - Boeser

If that still doesn't work, then we'll have cycled through Kuzmenko, Garland, Lafferty, Suter, Hoglander (very briefly), Lindholm (only two games) and Miller on the right wing. At some point, you gotta look at Mikheyev being the problem.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Fair point. But who's replacing all those goals/points. I feel like we are taking them for granted.

Their value in a trade is the highest it'll ever be. Their price tags alone leave us a lot of room for replacements. Even if it takes 3 players to fill that void.

I really like Boeser as a person but I have never had faith in him when the going gets tough... I dunno. Just spitballing.

It seems the only linemate Pettersson can succeed with is Miller... because Miller makes his line mates better and that's what elite players do. Pettersson doesn't make his linemates better and everyone he plays with seems to struggle. Maybe Kuz and Mik and Hoglander and Suter and such aren't the problem.. maybe it's their center.

Hoglander is producing with Aman and Lafferty. Kuzmenko is suddenly producing in Calgary. Suter produced with Miller. Mikheyev has been glued to Pettersson all season. At one point do we start to wonder if he's the issue?

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

As crazy as it sounds.... I wouldn't mind moving away from Pettersson and Boeser... I just don't see them as intense enough players and they have that kind of soft, fold under pressure style and history that I see us moving away from here.

I hope I'm wrong.

I just see guys like Miller, Suter, Lafferty, Garland, Joshua, Blueger, Hoglander, etc. As Tocchet guys who play aggressively, physically and skate their asses off and I dunno....

 

[Zombotron]

imagine if we followed up a 4 - 0 loss to boston by getting torched by patrick kane in the next game

 

[LuckyDay]

What we need after last game is obviously a complete rebuild
We need to see what we can get for Petterson while we still can before he becomes another anchor like Sandlak was. As much as I like the guy, getting him for whatever picks we can is more important for the future of this team. Additionally we need to buyout Miller. But Allvin...

 

[larueskee]

Last game the board only worked until the 15th page for me. It musut have been busy due to the long all star layoff.

 

[LemonSauceD]

It seems the only linemate Pettersson can succeed with is Miller... because Miller makes his line mates better and that's what elite players do. Pettersson doesn't make his linemates better and everyone he plays with seems to struggle. Maybe Kuz and Mik and Hoglander and Suter and such aren't the problem.. maybe it's their center.

Pettersson made his linemates better last season. Beauvillier, Mikheyev, and especially Kuzmenko all played their best hockey of their careers with Pettersson last season.

So we know that ability is there, for whatever reason it hasn’t really been there for him this season. Pettersson, last season, has single handedly won us 10+ or so games. All by himself.

Pettersson is deserving of critique this season with how much he’s struggled to be difference maker, but even at certain times, when we’ve needed a big goal, he answered. 9 game winning goals is nothing to scoff at, whether it’s meaningless stat or not.

Mikheyev and Kuzmenko haven’t been able to elevate their game by themselves which has made them quite useless. When Pettersson has one of his better games, they all of a sudden look good.

 

[andora]

I dont understand

Mikheyev is right in the middle of the league for top six even strength scoring

Mikheyev is strong at awareness and defensively

Mikheyev can affect opposing plays with speed and stick work



Is it that he isnt working or cause he is boring?

 

[Vector]

 

[Vector]