GDT: GM#8 LA Kings vs Buffalo Sabres @12:30pm 10/20/18

[KingsFan7824]

When the Kings were clicking in 2012-2014, they were absolutely one of the most dominant possession teams in the modern era.

In shots, yes. Talent? There were more talented teams that didn't win the Cup, although outscoring the Hawks in the 2014 series was an awesome accomplishment that can never be taken away. I vocally reacted to that Game 7 win more than either Cup win. It was great.

Even in 13-14, Quick was starting to have to save more shots, including in the playoffs. As they've lost talent to age and/or the cap, Quick has had to come up with an extra crazy save here and there. Those eventually add up, and they haven't had the offensive talent to make up for it. That's the last 4+ years in a nutshell.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Sometimes even the best teams lose a must win game.

Yeah, but not that one. Not when you're the defending champs. Not when you're the "just get in" Kings. That game is when the armor was pierced. That's when the mystique evaporated.

It wasn't just that game. It was also the loss to Vancouver in the game before that. It was not being able or willing to put up a fight against the Flames in the next game, regardless of how small the chance was to make the playoffs after the Oilers game.

By all rights they should've lost to SJ in 2014. Had that happened, I think things would've been quite different after that. They caught a wave of momentum though, and rode it to the most amazing experience I've ever had a fan. What happened after Game 3 against SJ was exhilarating. We'll never know what might've been had Voynov not committed a crime, but that's why that season will always be the biggest what if. I still like that Lombardi went for it in 15-16, but it did screw the future. So did the Richards trade, and the missed 1st round picks when they had a pick, but at least they got the Cup to show for those moves.

Can't lose to that Oilers team though. They were terrible.

 

[bouncesonly]

Why does the team need leadership? Isn't it self-evident at this point? Getting blown out every game isn't enough? You need someone to point out that you're getting blown out each game?
Aren't they professionals....do they not realize the situation? It's not like they're in the playoffs.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Gotta laugh at the yearning comments for Lombardi when he created this mess. You guys do realize about 90% of this team is still composed of transactions and hires made by Lombardi, right? Let’s not pretend that they started underachieving after Deano left. They were doing that years before his departure. Remember Bob Miller’s sit down interview with Dean and how displeased he was with the team? How do you think they got to where they are today?

This is when Blake needs to put his stamp on the team and identify the problems and rectify them. You’ve got to realize this isn’t a simple fix that’ll be resolved overnight. We said the transactions Dean made over the years are ones that will set the team back for years, and here we are now.

Wait, you think Blake is gonna fix this? We're gonna be the new Oilers. Old boys club in charge of the team with no accountability.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wait, you think Blake is gonna fix this? We're gonna be the new Oilers. Old boys club in charge of the team with no accountability.

I don’t know if he will, but he has to, otherwise these same problems that Lombardi largely created will persist.

 

[Bandit]

I’d say I missed the game, but it would be more accurate to say I didn’t watch it. 5-1? Gross

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Again, who created this mess? Remember how the team performed that led to Dean’s dismissal? If you’re going to sing his praises for what he did five years ago, that’s great, but what happened after 2014 is mostly on him.

Blake’s fault will be failing to identify this team’s problems and sticking with this same core. I get why he stood pat with the same group in his first season, to see how they’d respond to the changes. A year later, we’re witnessing the same problems and same culprits who failed to live up to their lofty contracts.

Blake made the same mistake Dean made in entrusting this group of players to figure things out on their own. This core of malcontents needs a shakeup.

And Dean hasn’t been gone for years. Blake took over in 2017. You think in one year a new GM was going to turn this team into a contender? We’re seeing how deep rooted the problems are with this club, it’s been the same problems hampering them since 2014-15.

You’re making an awful lot of assumptions about what I’m actually saying here. Most importantly:

1. I’m not defending Lombardi’s final years.

2. I didn’t expect Blake to turn this team into a contender.

I’ve been on the rebuild train since 15/16, dude. You’re preaching to the choir. But continuing to blame Lombardi is fruitless. He was fired. He’s gone. Blake has control of the team now and deserves the criticism.

And that’s what irritates me about the Blake defenders here. At least Dean has 12-14 to his record. Blake hasn’t done shit except continue to peddle this delusion of a contending core. He deserves all the criticism in the world right now.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Blake’s been here for a season and less than a month into his second. I guess that’s about as much time Dean had to turn the Kings around when he was hired in 2006.

 

[KINGS17]

What do expect Luc to say?

Hey y’all, we suck. Lottery year. Please buy some tickets to this ****-show.

I expect him to wake the f*** up and recognize this team hasn't been a contender for at least three years.

Then he could have said they had a great run, but in going for it after the run was over some poor decisions were made, so we are going to start the process of rebuilding.

 

[KINGS17]

Blake’s been here for a season and less than a month into his second. I guess that’s about as much time Dean had to turn the Kings around when he was hired in 2006.

Step 1 - Admit you have a problem.

Blake still hasn't done step 1.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I expect him to wake the f*** up and recognize this team hasn't been a contender for at least three years.

Then he could have said they had a great run, but in going for it after the run was over some poor decisions were made, so we are going to start the process of rebuilding.

Isn’t that what should’ve happened after the Sharks eliminated the Kings in 2016? The previous regime was just as guilty of failing to do the very same thing.

After last season, the current regime probably got overzealous thinking that guys like Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, etc., would all continue to perform better than before, on top of Kopitar, Brown and Doughty all coming off career years and a healthy Carter.

Boy were they wrong.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Step 1 - Admit you have a problem.

Blake still hasn't done step 1.

If you subscribe to The Athletic, you’ll know that he’s aware there’s a problem and he’s not happy. Like I said, this is going to be a painstaking process that can’t be fixed with a flick of a switch.

Now if he came out and said he’s confident this group will turn things around...

 

[kingsholygrail]

Yeah, but not that one. Not when you're the defending champs. Not when you're the "just get in" Kings. That game is when the armor was pierced. That's when the mystique evaporated.

It wasn't just that game. It was also the loss to Vancouver in the game before that. It was not being able or willing to put up a fight against the Flames in the next game, regardless of how small the chance was to make the playoffs after the Oilers game.

By all rights they should've lost to SJ in 2014. Had that happened, I think things would've been quite different after that. They caught a wave of momentum though, and rode it to the most amazing experience I've ever had a fan. What happened after Game 3 against SJ was exhilarating. We'll never know what might've been had Voynov not committed a crime, but that's why that season will always be the biggest what if. I still like that Lombardi went for it in 15-16, but it did screw the future. So did the Richards trade, and the missed 1st round picks when they had a pick, but at least they got the Cup to show for those moves.

Can't lose to that Oilers team though. They were terrible.

They had the same amount of points as their 2012 run.

 

[Bandit]

Step 1 - Admit you have a problem.

Blake still hasn't done step 1.

Hard to argue with that. Lombardi was ready to rebuild from day 1. 4:20 thinks they still have a contender.

 

[KINGS17]

That's a broken player.

"We have accepted being OK"? This team is not OK, it sucks.

 

[bob77]

I watched like 5 minutes between stuff I was doing, and this is what I saw.

Forbort is skating behind his net and promptly turns it over.

After a face off, the Kings are moving forward with some speed. Lewis goes into the boards 1v1 with Kempe behind him. Kempe stops ****ing skating. The puck is left there and he peels around. At least he got it back and made a nice individual play to make a shot, but he probably screwed up a better scoring chance by being lazy.

A couple minutes later, Buffalo is bearing down. Doughty's looking around like Denis Lemieux when the puck comes in because there's 3 Sabres with speed. They make a nice play to retrieve the puck. Forbort controls the puck, skates it a bit, then turns the ****ing thing over with a weak-ass pass off the boards. My kid could do better than that and he's 5 and never been on the ice. He literally passes harder than that in the entry way, I know I've patched the holes. The puck comes back in the zone, and Forbort and the forward on that side stand up, leaving Doughty to deal with 2 guys down low. He makes a poor read but recovers and is back in position. Forbort sees a guy heading to the corner, picks him up, and follows him there INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE ****ING POST BECAUSE SKINNER IS BEHIND THE NET WIDE OPEN. Bam, goal. Bam, TV off.

And yes, I drank before the game today rather than during it. The only redeeming quality to this season is it is spacing my drinking out more, because as we all know, binge drinking is unhealthy. This team completely forgot what it takes to win. Either that, or they know what it takes to win but aren't willing to put in the draining effort required to do it.

Skinner was DD ‘s man under the Kings d scheme. Forbort left his guy in desparation to help out

 

[KingsFan7824]

Isn’t that what should’ve happened after the Sharks eliminated the Kings in 2016? The previous regime was just as guilty of failing to do the very same thing.

After last season, the current regime probably got overzealous thinking that guys like Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, etc., would all continue to perform better than before, on top of Kopitar, Brown and Doughty all coming off career years and a healthy Carter.

Boy were they wrong.

It has been happening since 2016. The problem is that it's a hard cap league, and look at the majority of trades around the league. They're not big ones, and the ones that are big tend not to include 30+ year old players with many years left on their contracts. There's an exception with Weber, but after that, you really have to dig to find one.

Trading Doughty; would the Kings have gotten more than Ottawa did? Would what Ottawa got have been enough? Maybe the players the Kings would've gotten would've turned the team around the way they seemingly have in Ottawa, but everyone thought Ottawa would be terrible as of 10/20/2018.

They had the same amount of points as their 2012 run.

Yes, and they almost didn't get a chance to make their 2012 run in 2012 because of it.

 

[KINGS17]

Isn’t that what should’ve happened after the Sharks eliminated the Kings in 2016? The previous regime was just as guilty of failing to do the very same thing.

After last season, the current regime probably got overzealous thinking that guys like Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, etc., would all continue to perform better than before, on top of Kopitar, Brown and Doughty all coming off career years and a healthy Carter.

Boy were they wrong.

Absolutely, I said it back then. The run was over. It was time to move Kopitar before his third contract. Not because Kopitar sucked, but because the Kings are not going to win a damn thing over the length of his deal. Then they should have told Doughty they were going to rebuild around him. If Doughty wasn't up for that, time for him to go as well. I think we are seeing Doughty doesn't have the mettle to be a leader.

I don't know this for a fact, but when I see Lombardi say Kopitar's agent and the Kings are not even in the same ballpark, then I read Robitaille and Blake got involved in the Kopitar negotiations and Kopitar gets exactly what he was asking for on his contract, I think Lombardi was done at that point. At that point Robitaille and Blake were in control.

This roster is stale. Martinez should have been moved years ago, and Muzzin maybe within a year after that. They still held value then. Now Blake is in a tougher spot, and as I said before I think he may be operating under several constraints.

People just wanted to squeeze every drop out of the core. Well, that's been done now, and the situation is worse.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I don’t know if he will, but he has to, otherwise these same problems that Lombardi largely created will persist.

Lombardi didn’t create these problems, the players themselves did. It’s unreal that players continually get absolved of any blame here.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Absolutely, I said it back then. The run was over. It was time to move Kopitar before his third contract. Not because Kopitar sucked, but because the Kings are not going to win a damn thing over the length of his deal. Then they should have told Doughty they were going to rebuild around him. If Doughty wasn't up for that, time for him to go as well. I think we are seeing Doughty doesn't have the mettle to be a leader.

I don't know this for a fact, but when I see Lombardi say Kopitar's agent and the Kings are not even in the same ballpark, then I read Robitaille and Blake got involved in the Kopitar negotiations and Kopitar gets exactly what he was asking for on his contract, I think Lombardi was done at that point. At that point Robitaille and Blake were in control.

This roster is stale. Martinez should have been moved years ago, and Muzzin maybe within a year after that. They still held value then. Now Blake is in a tougher spot, and as I said before I think he may be operating under several constraints.

People just wanted to squeeze every drop out of the core. Well, that's been done now, and the situation is worse.

Forgot about the Kopitar negotiations and Dean was hamstrung by Luc/AEG.

It was telling that Dean Lombardi never issued public statement or gave an interview after being canned. He was knifed in the back because AEG wanted to keep the core together to continuously milk the cow.

 

[KINGS17]

Muzzin answers a question honestly and that is bad somehow?

He's entirely correct except they aren't even okay at the moment.

This core missed the playoffs after winning the Cup. Responded next season. Then they were horrible. Responded the next season.

Rinse and repeat. It's like they prove they are elite players and then half-ass the next season until they have to prove themselves again. For Sutter, it was almost never good enough so they were constantly challenged.

It's country club again. I almost feel like they wouldn't even trade Pearson or Toffoli because they are too important to the Dog Calendar and Twitter.

This team is not fun. Super soft, a whiny #1 defenseman and a marketing platform that is soft as hell too. I'm all in on skipping games for no reason except for screw this ****. STHer since 2001-02. Ranger game next Sunday? That used to be an automatic go...leaning towards just watching football instead.

Well, not until we have gotten past the month in the calendar when their dog appears.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Hard to argue with that. Lombardi was ready to rebuild from day 1. 4:20 thinks they still have a contender.

Lombardi and Blake did not start from the same place. Whether Blake could built what Lombardi did, eventually, and through many ups and downs, is a legit question. It would be interesting to see if you could hire Lombardi with the 2017 roster situation, and what he would do from day 1. Would he have the guts to trade a fully formed Doughty? Could he trade a $10m cap hit Kopitar? Could he find a trade partner for Toffoli and Pearson? Would he deal Muzzin and Martinez with nothing else on D?

Hell, Lombardi screwed up that Demitra trade by taking Lewis over Giroux. Thankfully Williams ended up not being hurt, otherwise the O'Sullivan portion of that Demitra trade would also have done nothing. Not that Lewis hasn't done anything, but without the Cups, that would have to be a Forbort/Tarasenko level mistake? Or, Hickey/Couture? Teubert/Karlsson? It's amazing they won with so many mistakes from Lombardi before 2012, let alone after June 2014. We made a huge deal about Purcell, and the pick he added, to get 0 goal Halpern. We don't hear much about that deal anymore though. But, yet another mistake prior to the Cup. Penner was a mistake before the Cup. Richards was inching toward last mistake Lombardi got to make very quickly.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Blake’s been here for a season and less than a month into his second. I guess that’s about as much time Dean had to turn the Kings around when he was hired in 2006.

You’re not arguing in good faith whatsoever.

Dean came in and said right away his plan was to rebuild. He said we were going to build from the net out, we’re going to change the culture, we’re going to be more involved with our AHL affiliate, we’re going to overhaul our scouting staff, etc. etc. He had a plan, he communicated that plan, and he ultimately executed that plan.

Blake came in and said we have a contending core and we’re going for another Cup.

You don’t see the difference there? What has Blake done to deserve your defense? He’s been just as bad as Lombardi by your own criteria. He can angrily shake his fist to the Athletic all he wants. He’s still spending tons of cap space on guys like Kovalchuk and riding shotgun to Luc’s bullshit.

Blake has by and large stopped the hemorrhaging of assets that Lombardi caused, and he deserves credit there. But until he actually - your words - puts his stamp on the team, I’m remiss to give him more praise, especially when his own boss is publicly delusional regarding the state of the team.

 

[KINGS17]

Heh, Luc is Blake's boss. Imagine being Blake and waking up from that nightmare every morning only to understand it is reality.

 

[KINGS17]

Hard to argue with that. Lombardi was ready to rebuild from day 1. 4:20 thinks they still have a contender.