GDT: GM#54 LA Kings vs Philadelphia Flyers @4:00pm 2/7/19

[GoldenBearHockey]

Shall we compare top 5 picks who had successful careers versus top 5 picks who were busts?

Absolutely,

How about these just from the Kings....JUST the Kings...

Doug Smith, Craig Redmon (ok, ok #6 there) Wayne McBean, Aki Berg, Olli Jokinen, Thomas Hickey,

I'm just refuting the desperation of NEEDING a top 5 pick,

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Too early on Strome, only 21 and he's looked better in the Windy City playing with his buddy DeBrincat.

Larsson is in a bad situation in Edmonton, would like to see how he would look somewhere else. Still a 2nd pairing guy IMO.

I know Reinhart sucks, but no need to include him twice.

Drouin has been pretty darn good this year with the Habs.

It goes both ways for every 'bust' there are going to be top 5 picks that carve out strong careers.

I'd prefer to get as close to that top pick as they can to ensure the odds of busting are minimal. Say, last 15 years, you are looking at one 1st overall bust in Yakupov.

I'd have to look a 2nd overall in that same time frame to see what it's turned out as thus far. Bobby Ryan comes to mind, his career started off promising but injuries derailed it, although he's been alright this year.

I'm not refuting the higher up the more likely it is, but regardless of where they pick, they have to make the right pick.....it's that simple.

 

[Kingspiracy]

If it's not going to work out where we have a chance to nab Hughes or Kakko, then it's not worth it. Suck till you drop, boys.

I think you need a new catch phrase

 

[member 88115]

I'm not refuting the higher up the more likely it is, but regardless of where they pick, they have to make the right pick.....it's that simple.

And who is refuting that point? Winning at this point and picking the 8th-10th pick would make it more difficult to get a difference maker.

 

[kingsboy11]

I think if this season has been any indication of anything, its that this team simply doesn't have it. 2 wins in a row isn't convincing me of anything. Hell we just traded our 2nd best defensemen. The team may play well over the course of a couple games, but there is no way the team could consistently push towards the playoffs I think. There's simply too many teams to jump over despite the Oilers and Ducks best efforts.

With regards to a top 5 pick or not, Kings would probably like that pick to jump in right away with all of our other rookies. If its not top 5, it'll be another year or two before that player likely makes the team. Kopitar, Doughty and Brown are not going anywhere, simple as that. So if they get a Hughes or a Kakko it changes the outlook of the team and gives the team a window where they can compete while those 3 are still here and gives the younger players a chance to grow.

 

[Reaper45]

Absolutely,

How about these just from the Kings....JUST the Kings...

Doug Smith, Craig Redmon (ok, ok #6 there) Wayne McBean, Aki Berg, Olli Jokinen, Thomas Hickey,

I'm just refuting the desperation of NEEDING a top 5 pick,

Smith over 500 NHL games. Redmond was because the Kings scouting staff at the time sucked. Everyone else around him was a solid pick. McBean blew but that whole first round was either a hit or miss. Berg 606 NHL games, Jokinen over 1200 NHL games and Hickey is at 441 and counting. Some arent ideal but you're not exactly making a great case here

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

And who is refuting that point? Winning at this point and picking the 8th-10th pick would make it more difficult to get a difference maker.

Again, not necessarily,

Recent picks 8-10

Schiefele, Couturier, Trouba, Ristolainen, Horvat, Nyalnder, Ehlers, Werenski, Provorov, Meier, Sergachev, Jost,

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Smith over 500 NHL games. Redmond was because the Kings scouting staff at the time sucked. Everyone else around him was a solid pick. McBean blew but that whole first round was either a hit or miss. Berg 606 NHL games, Jokinen over 1200 NHL games and Hickey is at 441 and counting. Some arent ideal but you're not exactly making a great case here

Sorry, with a top 5 pick, if you are measuring games played.....you lost the point a long time ago.

 

[King'sPawn]

Absolutely,

How about these just from the Kings....JUST the Kings...

Doug Smith, Craig Redmon (ok, ok #6 there) Wayne McBean, Aki Berg, Olli Jokinen, Thomas Hickey,

I'm just refuting the desperation of NEEDING a top 5 pick,

Olli Jokinen had a solid career. He was traded for Palffy.

Drew Doughty was pretty good, so I hear.

The point is that the higher the pick, the higher chance of getting the best talent.

With the Kings tying up a lot of money (currently) to older vets who will eventually decline in the next few years, they need people they can reasonably expect to take over. Like Petersen for Quick.

You have said yourself the Kings haven't had good picks to get good talent.

They need to get young talent, and their best chance at that is a better pick.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Olli Jokinen had a solid career. He was traded for Palffy.

Drew Doughty was pretty good, so I hear.

The point is that the higher the pick, the higher chance of getting the best talent.

With the Kings tying up a lot of money (currently) to older vets who will eventually decline in the next few years, they need people they can reasonably expect to take over. Like Petersen for Quick.

You have said yourself the Kings haven't had good picks to get good talent.

They need to get young talent, and their best chance at that is a better pick.

Only if they don't whiff on the pick....that's literally the only thing I am pointing out,

People are ready to melt down if the Kings don't pick top 5....that's just embarrassing....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Again, not necessarily,

Recent picks 8-10

Schiefele, Couturier, Trouba, Ristolainen, Horvat, Nyalnder, Ehlers, Werenski, Provorov, Meier, Sergachev, Jost,

Olli Jokinen had a solid career. He was traded for Palffy.

Drew Doughty was pretty good, so I hear.

The point is that the higher the pick, the higher chance of getting the best talent.

With the Kings tying up a lot of money (currently) to older vets who will eventually decline in the next few years, they need people they can reasonably expect to take over. Like Petersen for Quick.

You have said yourself the Kings haven't had good picks to get good talent.

They need to get young talent, and their best chance at that is a better pick.

I think you guys are both right, really.

Part of the reason I'm not too miffed that we likely ARENT going to finish last is the disappointment of finishing last and dropping to 4th

I'm superstitious but I always feel don't tempt the hockey gods. Remember how mad people were when Brian f***ing Willsie got us Drew Doughty instead of Stamkos? That worked out alright.

I'm trying to get comfortable with the idea that we'll end up with the 5th or 6th to last position and have to draft out of the top tier, it is what it is. You just flat out have to hit on these picks no matter where they are. While I agree with KP that the real generational difference makers are typically 1-3, we're not outtanking Ottawa. Or even NJ. Or possibly even Anaheim at this point. We just aren't that bad no matter how badly people want us to be. Start looking at the second tier of guys and see if there's a home run to be hit, like potentially Vilardi, or even just a Schiefele/Couturier. We've learned that it's more about the team around people, right? Schiefele is no Patrick Kane, and Trouba is no Drew Doughty, but Winnipeg seems to be just fine even with their currently dysfunctional top-tier pick in Laine. SJ is doing just fine with Meier and Hertl. Nashville is doing just fine. Edmonton has the best player in the league and they're hurting.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think you guys are both right, really.

Part of the reason I'm not too miffed that we likely ARENT going to finish last is the disappointment of finishing last and dropping to 4th

I'm superstitious but I always feel don't tempt the hockey gods. Remember how mad people were when Brian ****ing Willsie got us Drew Doughty instead of Stamkos? That worked out alright.

I'm trying to get comfortable with the idea that we'll end up with the 5th or 6th to last position and have to draft out of the top tier, it is what it is. You just flat out have to hit on these picks no matter where they are. While I agree with KP that the real generational difference makers are typically 1-3, we're not outtanking Ottawa. Or even NJ. Or possibly even Anaheim at this point. We just aren't that bad no matter how badly people want us to be. Start looking at the second tier of guys and see if there's a home run to be hit, like potentially Vilardi, or even just a Schiefele/Couturier. We've learned that it's more about the team around people, right? Schiefele is no Patrick Kane, and Trouba is no Drew Doughty, but Winnipeg seems to be just fine even with their currently dysfunctional top-tier pick in Laine. SJ is doing just fine with Meier and Hertl. Nashville is doing just fine. Edmonton has the best player in the league and they're hurting.

I'd take Schiefele in a heartbeat in this draft...

I can undertanding wanting the higher pick, I get that, what I don't get is the guys going MENTAL over not getting it, like their first born is being taken away

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'd take Schiefele in a heartbeat in this draft...

I can undertanding wanting the higher pick, I get that, what I don't get is the guys going MENTAL over not getting it, like their first born is being taken away

I understand the sentiment though. I just saw it coming earlier, haha. I said a while back that my greatest fear is that the Kings are going to rattle off like a 10 game winning streak later in the season (I think I said in February, March too!) and lose both a high pick and the playoffs just because that's the Kings.

It's the typical Lucy-Charlie Brown football action they've done to us for years

 

[AzKing]

What if we finish with the worst record and still only get the 4th pick? I get people want to have the best odds to get Hughes or Kakko, but it's less than 50/50 to get a top 2 pick even if you finish dead last. I wouldn't want to put all my hopes and dreams in getting one of those guys because the odds are against it.

Even getting the 4th pick is better than scraping to get into the playoffs and getting their faces kicked in while keeping a bloated, old payroll and having no blue chip prospect to show for such a miserable season. It isn't just Hughes or Kakko if you follow the Draft. You can do quite well with Dach, Cozens or Podkolzin. Any of those guys would slide in and be the Kings #1 prospect immediately compared with what they have.

 

[King'sPawn]

Only if they don't whiff on the pick....that's literally the only thing I am pointing out,

People are ready to melt down if the Kings don't pick top 5....that's just embarrassing....

Fair enough. I think we're on the same page and just talking in circles.

A top pick doesn't matter if you make a bad pick. And you also have to have the right staff to develop him. It's why I don't lose my mind over winning/not getting a top 5 pick.

What does upset me is the uncertainty of the direction Blake is steering the ship. He sold Pearson to get Hagelin, getting older. 2+ months later he sold Muzzin to get younger.

I have a concern Blake is going to try to make the playoffs when the team is not very inspiring and we were just sold on building for the future.

I will always cheer a Kings win, but two organizational changes in direction during one season is ridiculous.

 

[AzKing]

Only if they don't whiff on the pick....that's literally the only thing I am pointing out,

People are ready to melt down if the Kings don't pick top 5....that's just embarrassing....

You can't really whiff on forwards this draft in the Top 6. It's somewhat idiot proof in that they all have pretty decent upside. Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Cozens, Turcotte and Podkolzin are all pretty solid players. Once you get into Tier 2, that's where you have some high level skill but may be just a hair off the top kids. That's where you see Boldy, Zegras, Byram, Newhook and Krebs.

I want the Kings to get a shot at Hughes or Kakko but I won't lose sleep over any of the Top 6. This draft is heavy on forwards and pretty deep. The scouts have been talking about it for months. The Kings will have 3 picks in the Top 35 so this is a good year to stock up the system.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Fair enough. I think we're on the same page and just talking in circles.

A top pick doesn't matter if you make a bad pick. And you also have to have the right staff to develop him. It's why I don't lose my mind over winning/not getting a top 5 pick.

What does upset me is the uncertainty of the direction Blake is steering the ship. He sold Pearson to get Hagelin, getting older. 2+ months later he sold Muzzin to get younger.

I have a concern Blake is going to try to make the playoffs when the team is not very inspiring and we were just sold on building for the future.

I will always cheer a Kings win, but two organizational changes in direction during one season is ridiculous.

I don't view the Pearson trade....as a direction.....that was more of a wakeup call....and when it didn't work....he started working on moving the pieces he can.

Hagelin should be all but traded at the deadline, but....EVEN if he's not, he's a UFA, so cap space that he gets with that is fine....

If Blake was trying to make the playoffs, trading Muzzin is a really backwards way of doing it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

f*** your pucks.

 

[Master Yoda]

Fair enough. I think we're on the same page and just talking in circles.

A top pick doesn't matter if you make a bad pick. And you also have to have the right staff to develop him. It's why I don't lose my mind over winning/not getting a top 5 pick.

What does upset me is the uncertainty of the direction Blake is steering the ship. He sold Pearson to get Hagelin, getting older. 2+ months later he sold Muzzin to get younger.

I have a concern Blake is going to try to make the playoffs when the team is not very inspiring and we were just sold on building for the future.

I will always cheer a Kings win, but two organizational changes in direction during one season is ridiculous.

I don't think Pearson for Hagelin was a move necessarily to get better now. Hagelin would probably be easier to move at the deadline since he's a UFA.

Today's article on LA Times about Blake and the trade deadline pretty clearly indicates he's looking at moving veterans for picks and prospects. And by all indications, from the Muzzin trade to inserting younger players in the lineup, they are going down that path.

I would think they'll move Hagelin and Thompson at the deadline, but may have to wait until offseason to move other guys with term remaining if they want to get proper value. And if they still make the playoffs in spite of this, then so be it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh my.

 

[Jericho111091]

Can we get a fistfight between Gritty and Bailey

 

[KINGS17]

Olli Jokinen had a solid career. He was traded for Palffy.

Drew Doughty was pretty good, so I hear.

The point is that the higher the pick, the higher chance of getting the best talent.

With the Kings tying up a lot of money (currently) to older vets who will eventually decline in the next few years, they need people they can reasonably expect to take over. Like Petersen for Quick.

You have said yourself the Kings haven't had good picks to get good talent.

They need to get young talent, and their best chance at that is a better pick.

I wouldn't trade out of the top 2 in this draft, but if the opportunity to trade from #3OA - #10OA and moving down 4-5 spots in the 1st round of the 2019 draft, and pick up a proven prospect, or moving down 4-5 spots in the 1st round of 2019 and get another 1st round pick in the 2020 draft, I think Blake has to consider it. It all depends on the team they are dealing with and the players available.

I know it's easy to say and hard to do though.

 

[tny760]

#1 rated anthem singer in the NHL?

big f***in yikes from me bro

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

#1 rated anthem singer in the NHL?

big ****in yikes from me bro

She’s about as in tune as the Kings’ power play.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Pressure on Forbort leads to a turnover. Groundhogs day starts early