Post-Game Talk: [GM 51] Vancouver Canucks lose to New York Rangers | 3-4 | Garland, Podkolzin, & Pettersson

[Horvat1C]

One marker of intelligence I use among fans is whether or not they want to trade Hughes.

 

[MS]

This has to be one of the worst goaltending runs in modern history

He was .839 in January which is the worst goaltending month I think I’ve ever seen with that many starts.

 

[DonnyNucker]

One marker of intelligence I use among fans is whether or not they want to trade Hughes.

Because some people disagree on the current outlook of the team? The group that want a complete rebuild and the others that want to build around Hughes and Elias both have a case

 

[VanJack]

All you can do is shake your head.....between Boeser, OEL and Myers have close to $20 million tied up in salaries for guys who are currently playing at almost 'replacement-level'.

And almost no way out from under these contract anvils. How one team like the Canucks can butcher the salary cap year after year, is kind of mind-boggling.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

That assist tonight from Hughes is the game breaking talent he brings

He's not even skating hard, and is just pure patience and awareness

gets the puck in his own zone and goes 1 on 4
dices through the neutral zone
and pushes the defense right back into their own zone with a zone entry

then hands it off

i only watched the highlights but yeah that play he's practically gliding with the puck on his stick and he makes one really small jerky cut that throws all three rangers watching him off and opens the seam for garland's wide open shot

what a player

 

[604]

Because some people disagree on the current outlook of the team? The group that want a complete rebuild and the others that want to build around Hughes and Elias both have a case

I guess that's the difference in people who believe a retool can be done in two years and those who don't.

I think we may be competitive when Hughes is under contract whereas Petey will be the one who will have the final say for him.

All you can do is shake your head.....between Boeser, OEL and Myers have close to $20 million tied up in salaries for guys who are currently playing at almost 'replacement-level'.

And almost no way out from under these contract anvils. How one team like the Canucks can butcher the salary cap year after year, is kind of mind-boggling.

Boeser is still playing at a 60 point pace, certainly significantly better than replacement level.

 

[arttk]

All you can do is shake your head.....between Boeser, OEL and Myers have close to $20 million tied up in salaries for guys who are currently playing at almost 'replacement-level'.

And almost no way out from under these contract anvils. How one team like the Canucks can butcher the salary cap year after year, is kind of mind-boggling.

OEL and Myers are trash. But if you can find a replacement player that can put up 50+ points, you’ll be the most sought after scout in the NHL.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

All you can do is shake your head.....between Boeser, OEL and Myers have close to $20 million tied up in salaries for guys who are currently playing at almost 'replacement-level'.

And almost no way out from under these contract anvils. How one team like the Canucks can butcher the salary cap year after year, is kind of mind-boggling.

Its been stated countless times that when Myers ' bonus is paid after this season, he'll be tradeable.

 

[Horvat1C]

Because some people disagree on the current outlook of the team? The group that want a complete rebuild and the others that want to build around Hughes and Elias both have a case

No I mean people that want to trade Hughes because they don't think he's good.

 

[mossey3535]

Well I'm looking at it through the lens of goals saved above expected. The stats within the stats. Basically all save%'s aren't created equal. GSAE shows how goalies are performing individually without taking the players in front of them into account.

How much the goaltending is holding the team back is up for debate, but I would argue they're holding the team back just enough to not completely dismiss the issue like fans usually do with goaltending so often. That's just my personal opinion though. It would be interesting to hear from someone like @mossey3535 about this.


Exactly! I think fans in Vancouver are so used to good goaltending that when the team actually doesn't have it they just point to the D. They don't even know what bad goaltending looks like.

I also agree that it's good that the team doesn't have excellent goaltending to hide the massive flaws with the defence anymore. It all had to be exposed.

The goaltending is horrible this year. Delia has been unexpectedly the best in terms of GSAA especially but they are all (demko, Delia, Martin) well into the -ves. Then in terms of raw save percentage until you get to >.905 you aren't getting "good" goaltending.

I think it's holding the team back from being a true bubble team but being a bubble team wasn't going to be very good for the long term benefit of the club.

Coaching, team composition, and leadership are the biggest problems on the team IMO. Goaltending is maybe a distant 3rd or 4th.

Having said that, if any of the goalies could post >.900 (adequate) goaltending it would be nice lol.

Also Clark needs to wear this fail IMO. Whatever he has done so far isn't working. If Tocchet can get the team playing any sort of defence it will have a big positive effect on the goaltending.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

What Dafuq is with the new powerplay? I don't even know who's supposed to be scoring or passing to who. Miller with the best shooting/passing combo now infront of the net? EP, Hughes and Kuz just seemingly staying as far away from eachother as possible?

Bold move cotton.

 

[mossey3535]

My proudest moment in this game was when all 4 PKer's actually held the blueline and forced a dump-in on the NYR PP.

Like we have literally never seen this (small exagerration).

 

[Orr4Norris]

I’m so disappointed in our goaltending this year. All our goalies need to learn how to box out the forwards in front of net. How much time and space they get is disgraceful. Preventing cross seam passes is elementary. And while they are at it, they should also learn how to defend a 2-1. Like prevent the pass ffs. Finally, it would be helpful if our goalies learned how to hit our forwards in stride in the neutral zone. How much is it to ask for a breakout pass every once in awhile?

 

[mossey3535]

Goaltending coach Ian Clark has a reputation for making chicken salad out of chicken feathers, when it comes to goaltenders. But even he's no miracle worker.

Martin and Delia are AHL goaltenders, pure and simple. They'll play well once and awhile, but forced to play a string of games as a starter, they're just not up to it. No shame there, although the Canucks are probably regretting offering Martin a two-year deal. But it is at the league minimum, so sending him to Abbotsford isn't a big deal.

But the goalies next year will Demko, and just anybody else they can find on the waiver wire.

Bullshit. This is a total disaster. Even Demko played horribly this year. I don't see many adjustments that Delia and Martin are making either. He's the captain of this ship.

Clark has to wear this. He wears his (many) successes quite well. But from here it doesn't look like he's adapting or being critical of a system which has been exposed in every goalie in the entire organization. This stuff was working before, no doubt. But in a league where scoring is suddenly much easier I just see too many holes and decisions that can create inconsistency (which is ironic because his selling point for a lot of stuff is that it gets engrained and leads to more consistency).

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Chytil looks great, too bad he is not a Canuck

He very well may be in future. Right now he is playing like a superstar on 3rd line without any pp time, much better than Zib or Panarin. He is going to be very expensive for Rangers. Also he was a beast in playoffs.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I can understand the fans wanting losses now, but the presumption that the players or coaches should be playing to lose is preposterous.

 

[theguardianII]

Wow, talk about a fanbase that is institutionalized.

Meaning conditioned to find fault, like it is a surprise or unwanted.
This is a losing team, has been for years so no surprises and first the first time in a decade or longer acknowledged by management.

Changes are coming but the real effort should be to get that 3rd place for the draft so hurrah, the team lost.

I don't now if many posters have watched a few other teams including the Ranger/Flames game but it is so obvious that the Rangers were just mailing it in.

This is the second game in a row where the opposition played less than a full or hard game and it is more than the Canucks could handle.

The score was only close because the Rangers thought it would be icing and backed off, on that play I will say that Petey's speed was impressive and I do wish more icings went the way of the effort, it was close but usually close goes to the defenders.

I thought Miller played pretty good, Petey was hot and cool not cold though.

Another pedestrian game that got the team closer to a much higher draft pick.

I hope Schenn isn't hurt too bad but this happens sometimes accidently on purpose so a trade cannot happen, an injured player but I think in his case if a team wants him they will still try to make a deal.

Hughes gets hit with the puck and breaks his nose, maybe add a little character? :p

The AHL guys looked good.

Tocchet or not the team still needs to score 5 to win.

 

[Gstank]

Without Martin we would probably be drafting 5-7 positions higher. But that being said he has been awful lately and his confidence is shattered. Off to Abby for him

 

[1440]

The goaltending is horrible this year. Delia has been unexpectedly the best in terms of GSAA especially but they are all (demko, Delia, Martin) well into the -ves. Then in terms of raw save percentage until you get to >.905 you aren't getting "good" goaltending.

I think it's holding the team back from being a true bubble team but being a bubble team wasn't going to be very good for the long term benefit of the club.

Coaching, team composition, and leadership are the biggest problems on the team IMO. Goaltending is maybe a distant 3rd or 4th.

Having said that, if any of the goalies could post >.900 (adequate) goaltending it would be nice lol.

Also Clark needs to wear this fail IMO. Whatever he has done so far isn't working. If Tocchet can get the team playing any sort of defence it will have a big positive effect on the goaltending.

Absolutely. I have been saying this since last year when Demko was getting all sorts of praise but was really just making a bunch of flashy saves because he was out of position all the time.

Despite the team's defensive struggles, at a certain point when all of your goalies are posting below replacement level performances you have to point the finger at the obvious culprit in Clark. I think it is fair to say that the guy he has had the least time with (Delia) has been the best of the bunch and I am bamboozled that he has lasted through 2 head coaching changes.

 

[mossey3535]

Absolutely. I have been saying this since last year when Demko was getting all sorts of praise but was really just making a bunch of flashy saves because he was out of position all the time.

Despite the team's defensive struggles, at a certain point when all of your goalies are posting below replacement level performances you have to point the finger at the obvious culprit in Clark. I think it is fair to say that the guy he has had the least time with (Delia) has been the best of the bunch and I am bamboozled that he has lasted through 2 head coaching changes.

I wouldn't go as far in terms of Demko in previous seasons because the techniques they were using were appropriate for the state of the league and goaltending in general.

Also Demko was not as developed then as we expected for this season.

But the trends have been against those methods and this season especially teams are putting up offence in a way we haven't seen in awhile. And part of that is that shot philosophy for players has also factored in.

Adapt or die. Clark has done it before, but he needed to get a move on this since Demko went down.

 

[Lindgren]

I can understand the fans wanting losses now, but the presumption that the players or coaches should be playing to lose is preposterous.

Who is presuming such a thing?

 

[Diversification]

But the trends have been against those methods and this season especially teams are putting up offence in a way we haven't seen in awhile. And part of that is that shot philosophy for players has also factored in.

Adapt or die. Clark has done it before, but he needed to get a move on this since Demko went down.

What out of date things exactly are our goalies doing and is it salvageable or now too deeply engrained?

 

[Zippgunn]

If Demko comes back are we going to use him as the backup?

NO! Throw him back in AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and with any luck he can replicate his pre-injury numbers. We can do it because, after all, HE is the golden child goaltender at present and they get all the good starts. We should plunge straight to the bottom...

 

[Zippgunn]

The goaltending is horrible this year. Delia has been unexpectedly the best in terms of GSAA especially but they are all (demko, Delia, Martin) well into the -ves. Then in terms of raw save percentage until you get to >.905 you aren't getting "good" goaltending.

I think it's holding the team back from being a true bubble team but being a bubble team wasn't going to be very good for the long term benefit of the club.

Coaching, team composition, and leadership are the biggest problems on the team IMO. Goaltending is maybe a distant 3rd or 4th.

Having said that, if any of the goalies could post >.900 (adequate) goaltending it would be nice lol.

Also Clark needs to wear this fail IMO. Whatever he has done so far isn't working. If Tocchet can get the team playing any sort of defence it will have a big positive effect on the goaltending.

I still think Clark is ridiculously overrated. He could do nothing to make Holtby OR Halak useable here and both left (after being horribly mis-used) only to immediately rebound with new teams. Markstrom doesn't look so great now and Demko is unlikely to get back to his previous form.

 

[VanJack]

Let's face it, if Demko hadn't gone down, Delia would like spent most of the year in Abbotsford. And Martin was a nice story as a backup last season, were he had something to prove, but more importantly was only being counted on to play every fourth or fifth game. As a starter, he's only morphed in to the AHL goaltender he always was.

A better defensive team might be able to lock it down and compensate for below-average goaltending. But that team isn't the Canucks. They consistently surrender the most high-danger chances in the league, and they're dead last in the NHL by a mile on the PK.

So while Ian Clark has a stellar reputation for helping draft and develop goalies......there's no goalie ever born who stands a chance playing behind this Canuck team. And that's on the players and management.