Toggle sidebar

German football season 2023/24

Whoever it is needs to start establishing some consistency in defense. That means picking a CB pairing that isn't Süle-Rüdiger and letting them gel. I think my preference is for Henrichs & Kimmich at FB with Can, Groß, or Khedira at the 6. Something like:

Füllkrug
Sane - Musiala/Wirtz - Wirtz/Havertz
Can/Groß/Khedira - Gundogan/Musiala
Kimmich - Schlotterbeck/Süle/Rüdiger - Thiaw - Henrichs
ter Stegen​

But whatever the new coach picks, they need to stick with for the guys to gel.
 
I certainly would blow it up. Anyone close to 30 might need to be gone.

As for manager... I do think they need someone with a bit more strength in personality, but that's a double edged sword. Just stay away from Klopp and I'm happy with whomever.
 
Chimaera said:
I certainly would blow it up. Anyone close to 30 might need to be gone.

As for manager... I do think they need someone with a bit more strength in personality, but that's a double edged sword. Just stay away from Klopp and I'm happy with whomever.
Click to expand...
I'd go the other route. Even if it's for a specific tournament or 2-year cycle or whatever, open the pool a bit and bring in whatever players will fill the gaps that have the qualities the team is missing. Bring in some grittier character players that will leave it all on the field for the chance to represent the badge. Some of the older players are problematic, but the younger group doesn't show a lot of backbone, killer instinct, or resilience. The "go younger" and exclusivity mentality is part of what kept a player like Füllkrug on the periphery when he is one of the few true strikers in the pool--and you've got lower tier players like Khedira, Andrich, Prömel, Arnold, etc... that all could have helped to fill in that midfield gap that's been an issue but never really got the opportunity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joey Banana
Bringer of Jollity said:
I'd go the other route. Even if it's for a specific tournament or 2-year cycle or whatever, open the pool a bit and bring in whatever players will fill the gaps that have the qualities the team is missing. Bring in some grittier character players that will leave it all on the field for the chance to represent the badge. Some of the older players are problematic, but the younger group doesn't show a lot of backbone, killer instinct, or resilience. The "go younger" and exclusivity mentality is part of what kept a player like Füllkrug on the periphery when he is one of the few true strikers in the pool--and you've got lower tier players like Khedira, Andrich, Prömel, Arnold, etc... that all could have helped to fill in that midfield gap that's been an issue but never really got the opportunity.
Click to expand...

I’m torn. I think part of our problem has been those weak age groups between the 96ers & 01ers.

But a big prt is also that we let the WM winners stick around too long, so the next generation didn’t learn to lead when they should have. And I don’t want that to happen with the new wave of talent we’ve got coming through.

So I think my preference, at least post-Euros, would be to empower the Musiala’s & Wirtz’s to take charge of the NT, with the Füllkrug’s & Can/Groß’s to augment that young talent with hungry experience, but not overshadow it.
 
I have a question for the lot that know better than I do. Not necessarily talking about the top-flight league(s), but are Germany's lower divisions like 3rd tier to 6th tier that much stronger than Austria's divisions in the same range?
 
Obviously France not at their best today but a lot better effort and a much different team mentality on display. Tendency to brainfart aside, liked Tah back there plus Heinrichs. Looked like the line positioning was dialed down which left the backline less exposed but also gave them some room to counter back. Wirtz/Gundogan over Kimmich had them playing faster in buildup and the attack, which was a factor in both goals. Not at all the performance I was expecting to see.
 
S E P H said:
I have a question for the lot that know better than I do. Not necessarily talking about the top-flight league(s), but are Germany's lower divisions like 3rd tier to 6th tier that much stronger than Austria's divisions in the same range?
Click to expand...

Kids jump from the regionalliga (4th tier) to the Austrian 1st & 2nd divisions successfully every year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bringer of Jollity and S E P H
cgf said:
Kids jump from the regionalliga (4th tier) to the Austrian 1st & 2nd divisions successfully every year.
Click to expand...
Wow, so it's that much of a difference? I guess population factors in, but definitely surprising how each country is essentially the same, but crazy different in talent.
 
Bringer of Jollity said:
Obviously France not at their best today but a lot better effort and a much different team mentality on display. Tendency to brainfart aside, liked Tah back there plus Heinrichs. Looked like the line positioning was dialed down which left the backline less exposed but also gave them some room to counter back. Wirtz/Gundogan over Kimmich had them playing faster in buildup and the attack, which was a factor in both goals. Not at all the performance I was expecting to see.
Click to expand...

No? I thought it was pretty expected with Mbappe out and the coaching change. We'll see what comes of it, but Henrichs and Groß both did nicely. And Flo may still be building chemistry, but watching him out there made me really excited to see what he & Musiala can do together.

What would probably gives us the best balance would be playing Henrichs & Groß (or Klostermann when fit) at the FB spots; Thiaw partnering one of Larry, Curly, or Moe; Gundogan / Kimmich - Can / Khedira (Martel); with 3 of Musiala / Wirtz / Sane / Havertz drifting off of Füllkrug.
 
Last edited:
S E P H said:
Wow, so it's that much of a difference? I guess population factors in, but definitely surprising how each country is essentially the same, but crazy different in talent.
Click to expand...

It's tricky because of RBS and their 2nd division team pushing up the average. But a midtable club in the 2nd Austrian tier would be more likely to fight relegation than for promotion from the 3rd league in germany.

*shrug* if you took an MLS team and made them play in England, which division do you think they'd be in?
 
  • Like
Reactions: S E P H
cgf said:
It's tricky because of RBS and their 2nd division team pushing up the average. But a midtable club in the 2nd Austrian tier would be more likely to fight relegation than for promotion from the 3rd league in germany.

*shrug* if you took an MLS team and made them play in England, which division do you think they'd be in?
Click to expand...
I personally think they would be scattered throughout the EPL all the way to League One. The best MLS clubs would probably be relegation bubble in the EPL, some other wealthy MLS clubs throughout the Championship, while most would be in League One. But I get your point.
 
Or we could just say f*** it and roll with a U23 team:


Adeyemi - Moukoko/Weiper - Wirtz/Schade
Musiala - Wirtz/Nmecha
Martel
Netz/Rothe - Schlotterbeck - Thiaw - Vagnoman/ABK
Atubolu​
 
cgf said:
It's tricky because of RBS and their 2nd division team pushing up the average. But a midtable club in the 2nd Austrian tier would be more likely to fight relegation than for promotion from the 3rd league in germany.
Click to expand...
Might be the case with some top-level clubs as well, a Blau-Weiss Linz wouldn't look completely out of place in the 4th tier Regionalliga Bayern.

But overall and without overt emphasis on Red Bull Salzburg and their suburban minions in particular, maybe something like:

Germany Bundesliga (1st tier, teams 1 to 18)

Germany 2. Bundesliga (2nd tier, teams 19 to 36)
Austria Bundesliga (1st tier, teams 1 to 12)

Germany 3. Liga (3rd tier, teams 37 to 56)
Austria 2. Liga (2nd tier, teams 13 to 28)
Germany Regionalliga (4th tier, 5 groups, teams 57 to 146)

Austria Regionalliga (3rd tier, 3 groups, teams 29 to 76)
Germany Oberliga (5th tier, 14 groups, teams 147 to 391)

Germany Verbands-/Landesliga (6th tier, 35 groups, teams 392 to 599)
Austria Landesliga (4th tier, 9 groups, teams 77 to 214)

At this point differences start to be already more within the countries rather than between them as amateur football is really fragmented.
 
cgf said:
Or we could just say f*** it and roll with a U23 team:


Adeyemi - Moukoko/Weiper - Wirtz/Schade
Musiala - Wirtz/Nmecha
Martel
Netz/Rothe - Schlotterbeck - Thiaw - Vagnoman/ABK
Atubolu​
Click to expand...
TBH it's tongue in cheek, but I might play the bulk of those guys a lot more than some of the others.
 
It's really hard to judge. Just like the Championship in England is a bit more rugged (and honestly, a lot of clubs would struggle with it) leagues in Germany and other countries beyond the top tier are different. I think the places where you can play your youth side in the competition, those sides likely have more talent than most and skew the evaluation. But they also likely struggle in a more physical season.

The quality of the Austrian League, and by association, the 2nd tier has improved quite a bit, largely due to the investment of a few clubs. they also are seeing a growth in some of their players going elsewhere for development. Even if they might not make the grade at the top level, it's still more talent down the table. However, there are some pretty big teams still in the Bundesliga 2. Schalke, Hamburg, Hertha Berlin, Hannover all have massive attendance. They might have money problems, but they're not small clubs. There's others who have massive stadiums, and if they won a bit more, they'd average 40 thousand pretty easy. Other clubs like St Pauli and Magdeburg sell out or sell most of all their tickets.
 
Chimaera said:
TBH it's tongue in cheek, but I might play the bulk of those guys a lot more than some of the others.
Click to expand...

It would be a talented team despite its youth…and if every nation assembled their best U23 teams we could stand proud…but if I’m being serious Musiala, Wirtz, and Thiaw are the only ones I’m sure are ready to contribute to the senior team in a starting role.

In a vacuum, Schlotterbeck & Adeyemi are too, but Karim is not as good as Sane or Havertz yet, and with Brandt’s form, he’s currently our 5th best creative. Whereas with Nico it’s more about building his confidence in that shirt as he’s been shook by his bad luck for the NT, so I think we need to establish Thiaw first, before integrating Nico next to him.

I love Moukoko, Weiper, and Martel, but the first two are still breaking in at the senior level and though Martel is a key starter for Köln, he’s still a cycle away from being ready to be a key piece for the NT. Similarly Netz and Atubolu are still at least a cycle or two away…while Vagnoman just isn’t good enough (yet?), despite his impressive physical tools.

And Schade, like ABK, is just a wildcard with the raw talent to be a factor once everything clicks, but who still needs plenty of polish.


Realistically we’d still need ter Stegen, Füllkrug, Henrichs, Can/Khedira, and whoever filled the 2nd FB spot…Groß, Kimmich, Klostermann, Raum, Gosens, Or a 3rd CB. While Sane, Havertz, Brandt, Gundogan, Goretzka, and Kimmich are just too good to ignore.
 
Last edited:
I still think you can use 5-6 of those guys, have them get major minutes, and fill in the gaps with guys who aren't into their 30s. It's fine if you have two or three guys who help set the mentality, lead the locker room, are good fits on the pitch to finish out the roster, but the bulk of it needs to be a transition. I mean, keep Gundogan, maybe two or three others you think fit in what you're doing. If you're starting fresh with someone new, start fresh with the roster. Guys who are 23-26 should make up the bulk of the players to get them through the next building.
 
Chimaera said:
I still think you can use 5-6 of those guys, have them get major minutes, and fill in the gaps with guys who aren't into their 30s. It's fine if you have two or three guys who help set the mentality, lead the locker room, are good fits on the pitch to finish out the roster, but the bulk of it needs to be a transition. I mean, keep Gundogan, maybe two or three others you think fit in what you're doing. If you're starting fresh with someone new, start fresh with the roster. Guys who are 23-26 should make up the bulk of the players to get them through the next building.
Click to expand...

:dunno: Füllkrug, ter Stegen, Groß, and Gundogan are the only 30yo I listed
 
I think he's the only one who is available who would check the boxes that the media is looking for.

I'm not sure he's the guy for it, without giving him enough runway to build what he wants, but we shall see.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom