German football season 2023/24

[Chimaera]

Voller may not want the Germany job but he might end up having to appoint himself

In the space of one game Rudi Voller restored unity to the German team and the clamour for him to get the manager's job is likely to grow

theathletic.com

Could go that route I guess. I'm not sure Voller wants to be the guy though.

 

[cgf]

Might not be the worst thing even if Rudy is more a figurehead for the other two. Wolf is a capable coach to handle most of the day to day; while Sandro Wagner is a very intriguing prospect. He's generally very insightful when he comments on games, seems to have the right mindset/people-skills, and he's had success at the lower levels of German football. This set up could be a good way to groom him for the job if Nagelsmann/Klopp aren't interested in taking over...either right now or after the euros.

 

[cgf]

Don't think we could go younger than:

Füllkrug
Musiala - Wirtz - Sane/Havertz
Martel - Gundogan/Kimmich
Henrichs - Schlotterbeck* - Thiaw - Groß/Kimmich*
ter Stegen

Füllkrug
Sane/Havertz - Musiala - Wirtz
Martel - Gundogan/Kimmich
Groß/Kimmich* - Schlotterbeck* - Thiaw - Henrichs
ter Stegen

*Klostermann / Süle / Rüdiger / Tah / Bella Kotchap

​

...and I don't think Martel is ready to start ahead of Can/Khedira/Groß this cycle.

After the euros though, Martel, Thiaw, & Schlotterbeck should be blooded in. As could a FB and Moukoko or Weiper, and Adeyemi could surpass Sane. So something like this might be feasible next cycle:

Moukoko/Weiper
Adeyemi - Musiala - Wirtz - Havertz
Martel
Netz/ABK - Schlotterbeck - Thiaw - Henrichs
ter Stegen


Moukoko/Weiper - Havertz
Adeyemi/Netz - Musiala - Wirtz - Schade/Knauff
Martel
Schlotterbeck - Thiaw - Bella Kotchap
ter Stegen​

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Did Werner really fall off that much?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Did Werner really fall off that much?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

German Klose to some.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

German Klose to some.

Ah! Alas, he strayed to where he should have stayed away from...

 

[cgf]

Did Werner really fall off that much?

Eh, moreso he's been injured a bunch and got surpassed. He's not able to spearhead our attack like Füllkrug, nor is he as good as Kai in a more speedster-forward/false-9 role, so he's fallen out of the picture up front.

...and he's not going to beat Sane / Havertz / Wirtz / Musiala / Brandt / Adeyemi / Gnabry for spots on the wing or off the striker. Especially not with kids like Schade & Moukoko just looking more interesting right now.

Ah! Alas, he strayed to where he should have stayed away from...
View attachment 742903

Eh, Kai's still a beast for the NT (scorer point every 88min) and has a spot either as a starter or as one of the first names off the bench. My preference is for Füllkrug to start up front and I pray that Mouki or Weiper is ready to replace Füllkrug whenever he falls off, but in the creative band Kai is excellent and he's not a bad plan-B.


And we'll see what happens for Nkunku, he's not as clever of a passer/playmaker as Kai and doesn't open space for others as well with his movement, but his nose for goal is on another level from Kai's and he's more aggressive about driving at defenders; so he isn't as dependent on the collective to function for his production. But we'll see if London-depresses / the-EPL-disillusions him too.


Timo just got replaced while too banged up to start re-making his case and simply wasn't as skilled as the other two. He never had Havertz' skill in tight spaces, his creativity, nor his touch as a passer or shooter.

And Nkunku is basically a rich man's Timo, similar speed and ability to glide with the ball through space, but a better nose for goal and dribbling abilities when spaces get more cramped. Again Nkunku's off-ball runs aren't as good as opening space for his team-mates, but the greater defensive attention that he requires negates a lot of Timo's advantage there.

 

[S E P H]

I have another question for you lederhosen lot, how good of a player is Oscar Gloukh going to be? I read some wunderkid articles and it seems he was rated like in the top 10 to 15 in all of them.

 

[cgf]

I have another question for you lederhosen lot, how good of a player is Oscar Gloukh going to be? I read some wunderkid articles and it seems he was rated like in the top 10 to 15 in all of them.

I haven't watched Salzburg since Jaissle left, but Gloukh seems to be a big time talent. He's looked great for the Israel youth teams and seems to have hit the ground running in Austria. Definitely a top talent in his age group.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Eh, moreso he's been injured a bunch and got surpassed. He's not able to spearhead our attack like Füllkrug, nor is he as good as Kai in a more speedster-forward/false-9 role, so he's fallen out of the picture up front.

...and he's not going to beat Sane / Havertz / Wirtz / Musiala / Brandt / Adeyemi / Gnabry for spots on the wing or off the striker. Especially not with kids like Schade & Moukoko just looking more interesting right now.

Germany will have a lot of issue if some no name 30 year is asked to be he spearhead.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Germany will have a lot of issue if some no name 30 year is asked to be he spearhead.

Late bloomer. Just very few players in the pool that check off the same boxes. Maybe Moukoko, but he's stalled and was very disappointing at the U-21 Euro this summer.

 

[cgf]

Germany will have a lot of issue if some no name 30 year is asked to be he spearhead.

We've won with guys like that before

And he isn't exactly a no name. Long before beating Kolo Muani to the BuLi scorer title, he was a serious prospect...I wanted BMG to sign him to replace Kruse when he left...but partying and injuries derailed Füllkrug's career until he got serious.

This isn't like if Behrens suddenly got nominated after spending most of his career in the 3rd division. Füllkrug has had the talent to break into the team since ~2016, he just didn't have the right mindset until recent years.

Plus he came up at a time when Jogi was no longer bothering with integrating new blood. So even if he hadn't taken that career detour, cracking Jogi's inner circle may not have been in the cards.

Late bloomer. Just very few players in the pool that check off the same boxes. Maybe Moukoko, but he's stalled and was very disappointing at the U-21 Euro this summer.

Weiper and Mouki will get there soon enough. And it's unfair to blame Mouki for the u21s this summer, he was snakebitten for a match before missing the rest of tourney with an injury, but is back to lighting things up at that level with brace in their last match.

It's fair to say his ruckrunde wasn't nearly as impressive as his hinrunde, but his role was also put in question with the return of Haller...and the ugly negotiations that may have poisoned the well between him & BVB, sapped him of the confidence he played with before the winterbreak.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

We've won with guys like that before

And he isn't exactly a no name. Long before beating Kolo Muani to the BuLi scorer title, he was a serious prospect...I wanted BMG to sign him to replace Kruse when he left...but partying and injuries derailed Füllkrug's career until he got serious.

This isn't like if Behrens suddenly got nominated after spending most of his career in the 3rd division. Füllkrug has had the talent to break into the team since ~2016, he just didn't have the right mindset until recent years.

Plus he came up at a time when Jogi was no longer bothering with integrating new blood. So even if he hadn't taken that career detour, cracking Jogi's inner circle may not have been in the cards.

in 2014 you had Mueller and Klose.... in your last euro you had Klinsmann...

The bold isnt saying much I'm afraid.

AS for Jogi's issue this doesn't stop him from doing well for a team that isnt a mid table. This kinds reeks of Stengs is elite I've read on here. He will have to prove it before anyone can convince me with just words and excuses.

 

[cgf]

in 2014 you had Mueller and Klose.... in your last euro you had Klinsmann...

The bold isnt saying much I'm afraid.

AS for Jogi's issue this doesn't stop him from doing well for a team that isnt a mid table. This kinds reeks of Stengs is elite I've read on here. He will have to prove it before anyone can convince me with just words and excuses.

Not upfront, but Howedes was a similar caliber player to Füllkrug. And when we went to the final in 2002, Neuville was exactly a Füllkrug level forward for us.

Make whatever jokes you want, but he outscored a guy who was good enough to start for the WC finalists

Nobody is calling Nik elite...other than his ass, as I definitely know a girl who has called his ass elite before ...because he doesn't need to be elite. Füllkrug is a talented player with pedigree, who is more than capable enough given the elite talent we can stick behind him.

We just need a cycle, maybe two out of him.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Not upfront, but Howedes was a similar caliber player to Füllkrug. And when we went to the final in 2002, Neuville was exactly a Füllkrug level forward for us.

Make whatever jokes you want, but he outscored a guy who was good enough to start for the WC finalists

Nobody is calling Nik elite...other than his ass, as I definitely know a girl who has called his ass elite before ...because he doesn't need to be elite. Füllkrug is a talented player with pedigree, who is more than capable enough given the elite talent we can stick behind him.

We just need a cycle, maybe two out of him.

AH Howedes who should've been sent off in the final... cant forget that. If I remember right he was playing RB? Not asked to be a focal point.

Where is the joke, im being genuine. Germany aren't stacked like France though. Muani isnt asked to carry the load in attack. Like your countryman said a few days ago you dont need stars everywhere but in key position you need good to great players. He has to prove that and no one should be convinced he can until he does. Like Werner replacing Klose.

I know you are not calling him elite, im just saying thats the vibe im getting.

One would be surprising two would be a miracle.

 

[Evilo]

Kolo Muani isn't expected to carry France and in fact he wasn't a starter at the WC but a desperate late call-up.
He has never scored much and brings plenty of other things.

 

[cgf]

Nobody is asking Füllkrug to carry anything, y'all are the only ones claiming he needs to be Gerd. All we need him to do is to play a role for the absolutely stacked midfield behind him, which he's done well so far...scoring a goal every 50minutes for the NT.

And my bad, Oliver f***in Giroud started for the WM-finalists...definitely proof that Füllkrug can't get the job done

 

[Evilo]

Given Giroud's resume, yeah, Fullkrug better up his ante.

 

[cgf]

Given Giroud's resume, yeah, Fullkrug better up his ante.

You're missing the point. We're not talking about resumes, we're talking about last year, when France went to the final with an ancient Giroud scoring 13 goals in 33 matches for Milan.

 

[Evilo]

You're missing the point. We're not talking about resumes, we're talking about last year, when France went to the final with an ancient Giroud scoring 13 goals in 33 matches for Milan.

Frankly you're running circles.
D2M told you Fullkrug isn't the type of striker you win a WC with (his argument, not mine) and you countered with a "well Kolo is starting for the WC champs and has less goals".
I corrected by saying Kolo wasn't starting for the WC champs (and that he brought much more than goals), Giroud was because of his resume indeed and because even as ancient as he is (and your point being that he's something like done), he still put up 0.75 G/A per 90 while Fullkrug had 0.76.
So as ancient as he was, he certainly wasn't less productive as Fullkrug.

Kolo was 0.88 BTW. Because assists are very important to his game, as could be seen from his formidable entry in the WC.

 

[cgf]

Frankly you're running circles.
D2M told you Fullkrug isn't the type of striker you win a WC with (his argument, not mine) and you countered with a "well Kolo is starting for the WC champs and has less goals".
I corrected by saying Kolo wasn't starting for the WC champs (and that he brought much more than goals), Giroud was because of his resume indeed and because even as ancient as he is (and your point being that he's something like done), he still put up 0.75 G/A per 90 while Fullkrug had 0.76.
So as ancient as he was, he certainly wasn't less productive as Fullkrug.

Kolo was 0.88 BTW. Because assists are very important to his game, as could be seen from his formidable entry in the WC.

Thank you. See how easy things are when you just agree and make my point for me?

 

[Evilo]

You're really weird....

Kolo bring much more than goals and yet has significantly better G/A but somehow, he's a proof that Germany can start an inferior striker. OK.
Or Giroud who started for two WC final teams is somehow a proof you can start Fullkrug because he's so "ANCIENT" that he's still as productive and obviously brings a linup play few players in the world bring.

Weird.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

The caveat in all this is that Germany doesn’t have the soldiers france does (first time anyone can say this)

France is an all star team. One player who isn’t a star can’t be compared to a team that has some nice pieces but are asking some 30yr old to be a focal point in the attack is hardly the same or similar to what france have done.

 

[Evilo]

The caveat in all this is that Germany doesn’t have the soldiers france does (first time anyone can say this)

France is an all star team. One player who isn’t a star can’t be compared to a team that has some nice pieces but are asking some 30yr old to be a focal point in the attack is hardly the same or similar to what france have done.

First time like in most of man kind history?
It's funny that joke that people keep on doing without any knowledge of history