Proposal: Geo to EDM package

[elitepete]

This is a fair trade, and something the Oilers should try if they are not able to get a legit starter like Fleury. Also, the salary cap may prevent the Oilers from ever being able to acquire a star goalie anyways.

 

[GOilers88]

No. *I* don’t want anything. Georgiev is about as dime a dozen as goalies come.

I don’t know why Edmonton would have any interest in acquiring him. .905-.910 is not that good. If I’m Edmonton, I actually pay something to acquire an upgrade, not go bargain hunting for someone who, at best, might match the goalie I have already if he stayed healthy.

I agree with you, and have been hesitant about Georgiev being worth it. But his recent play in a starters role has been decent, and moreover I just don't know who would even be available as a legit starter with term. All of them are basically on teams looking at the playoffs who I doubt would be willing to downgrade or make a lateral move. Even Georgiev and the Rangers fall in there.

Curious to know who you'd target that is realistically an option for this season?

 

[Cogburn]

As a Canucks fan, I think the Oilers should decline. We don't want even a slightly better fit in Edmontons crease.

 

[Scintillating10]

Geo + Hajek + NYR 2022 4th [Oil have no 4th atm]
for
Lavoie + Kosk + EDM 2023 3rd

all salaries full pop which gives EDM a bit of instant cap relief [4+ - hair over 3].

Value: Lavoie recently drafted 2nd rnd = sufficient value for Geo.
upgrade of pick reflects both pick now for later pick + NY taking Kosk back

NY should get 4th or 5th for expiring Hajek, but I am more concerned about
a) creating instant roster spot
b) giving the guy a good home as NYR has way too many LD ahead of him
c) recover cap hit now

For those who foolishly insist on win now, and think Geo should be kept this season:
1. It is INDISPUTABLE that Rangers do not have cap for Strome or Geo going forward.
2 More immediately pertinent, we have discerned Geo's track record is starter quality IF IF IF he gets regular starter mins.
NY should NOT give Geo starter mins over Shesty
Shesty should get starter mins vs toughest competition and let Kinkaid/Huska handle balance.

Kosk should be waived to the A.
If someone wants to take him now, great.
If not, see if Benny Allaire can up his game as an insurance policy.

I would do that in a second if I was Edmonton.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Didn’t they already try one of our backups and it didn’t work for them...why would they want to repeat that cycle?

Talbot was great here for 1.5 years. We got 1 game away from the Western final with him. I'd love to repeat that cycle.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Talbot was great here for 1.5 years. We got 1 game away from the Western final with him. I'd love to repeat that cycle.

Wow shows how much I paid attention after that. Although I do not think Georgie is better now then Talbot was then.

 

[Charlie Conway]

There are no top prospects here. A couple of reclamation projects, a couple of picks, and a couple of goalies. The Rangers get the better pick, the Oilers get the better goalie, not sure about the prospect but I'm not super excited about Hajek after the scouting reports. He's possibly a bust at this point. Lavoie isn't a bust but also isn't a guarantee to make it, and he's been inconsistent in the AHL.

Hajek could be hot and cold. While Lindgren was out, he filled in on the top pairing with Fox for a game or two. He played okay for a while and not-so-good for a while when placed in a position where he was very much out of his element.

He is not an offensive player, so if you're hoping for that, it's not coming. He's generally a more stay-at-home guy. In his defense, he has played only a season's worth of games across the last 4, and I think he would benefit from a consistent partner and consistent play time, both of which he has not gotten much of the last few seasons.

I don't think he'll ever have the upside that was hoped for based on his value in the Miller+McDonagh trade with Tampa, but I do think he is serviceable as a 3rd pairing option, and, who knows, could take the next step. I'd rather have him there than Nemeth or Tinordi, though I don't know how much that's saying.

As for Georgiev, he has done very well when suddenly shoved into the starter role. As of January 4th, he posted a 1.85 GAA and a .941 since the start of December. 4-2-1 in terms of decisions over that span. Defensive structure in front of him was okay but not great, so there were definitely nights he worked. He has tended to do better when he has a consistent workload. I don't know if he's necessarily Edmonton's answer in goal, but he's a guy that could be of interest for a team looking to take a gamble to try to find their guy.

 

[bernmeister]

I agree Geo needs starter work but I dont see why Drury would just ship him off for basically nothing. Rangers want to win and they are going to play whoever is performing better. If Shesty goes down Geo is the better option over Kincaid and an unproven and not ready Huska. Geo could also then be traded at the draft for more then what this package is to a team who has cap space. I just dont see why they would trade him for this type of return.

He commands a current 2nd not more unless
pick is not current but later
he is retained
we are taking back cap dump

a la carte pricing which the package complies with....


You make a good pt about Geo as insurance, but the risk of maybe Shesty goes down is not dominant over certainty of getting a useful asset which we can apply or flip to upgrade a draft pick.
We have not yet fully recovered from all those bad desperation deals, along with draft selections that underwhelmed. Upgrading on both Strome + Geo, both of whom we can't afford to keep anyway as established math, is the correct move to up our chances for multiple seasons going forward.

 

[bernmeister]

I think that Lavoie is a fair price. he is a 6'3 center with speed and hands who just needs some development time. That is the typical 2nd round pick player that is 3 years into his career. There is a few goalies that we can get in the same rough price range like MAF, Korposalo, Holtby, Quick, Varlamov or Driedger. Some of those guys will be a little more cost to acquire but have some term which is worth paying for. Geo does not have as good a resume as any of those guys, so the oilers are not going to pay more for a bigger question mark if they do make a run.

agree except that quality guys will cost "a little more".

 

[bernmeister]

How about Georgiev + Kravstov instead of Hajek?
Obviously package would have to change from Oilers.

Hajek needs to be in for reasons explained, cap + also NY needs a roster slot.
Krav is not to be had cheap and would cost ....

Yeah this won't end well . NYR are going to want Broberg .

Krav addition would cost Broberg

It's one thing when a more complicated deal [e.g., retained Price for Krav + with Price then retained further + flipped to Oil for big package, then Broberg is essential just to cover the Krav portion to MON] is involved,
Not nec for this smaller deal where aim is to move Geo for NY for futures and Oil want to upgrade immediate netminding

 

[bernmeister]

No. *I* don’t want anything. Georgiev is about as dime a dozen as goalies come.

I don’t know why Edmonton would have any interest in acquiring him. .905-.910 is not that good. If I’m Edmonton, I actually pay something to acquire an upgrade, not go bargain hunting for someone who, at best, might match the goalie I have already if he stayed healthy.

disagree
1. Geo as a starter w/regular work is obv sharper and better than either his backup self or Kosk
Maybe a stopgap, but for a cheap price worth it for this season

2. More than fair to suggest a signif upgrade instead, as long as you are honest about how that is gonna be really expensive and hurt,

 

[bernmeister]

Didn’t they already try one of our backups and it didn’t work for them...why would they want to repeat that cycle?

1. Self renting Geo is a waste, and it is untenable as to max Geo means giving HIM starter mins at cost of giving those to Shesty.
need to admit that

2. Huska had a bad debut vs Avalanche, but that is a real offensive juggernaut and more importantly he got ZERO support,
He'll be fine vs weaker teams as backup

 

[GOilers88]

Hajek needs to be in for reasons explained, cap + also NY needs a roster slot.
Krav is not to be had cheap and would cost ....


Krav addition would cost Broberg

It's one thing when a more complicated deal [e.g., retained Price for Krav + with Price then retained further + flipped to Oil for big package, then Broberg is essential just to cover the Krav portion to MON] is involved,
Not nec for this smaller deal where aim is to move Geo for NY for futures and Oil want to upgrade immediate netminding

Well I'd probably pull the trigger on your original proposal then. Not bad, bern.

Still wish we had tried to pull the trigger on a deal for Buch. What a missed opportunity.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Wow shows how much I paid attention after that. Although I do not think Georgie is better now then Talbot was then.

We'd be happy with him helping us make the playoffs this season. Anything after that is a bonus.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I think that Lavoie is a fair price. he is a 6'3 center with speed and hands who just needs some development time. That is the typical 2nd round pick player that is 3 years into his career. There is a few goalies that we can get in the same rough price range like MAF, Korposalo, Holtby, Quick, Varlamov or Driedger. Some of those guys will be a little more cost to acquire but have some term which is worth paying for. Geo does not have as good a resume as any of those guys, so the oilers are not going to pay more for a bigger question mark if they do make a run.

a struggling AHL player who was 2nd rounder few years ago and never played in NHL is not enough for a proven legit NHL goalie.

 

[TFHockey]

a struggling AHL player who was 2nd rounder few years ago and never played in NHL is not enough for a proven legit NHL goalie.

Koskinen is a proven, legit NHL goalie. See what I did there?

Lavoie is a work in progress. I think he has the size and skill to make the NHL. He has to improve a number of areas of his game, and to me the #1 part of that is consistency.

Heck he is only 21 years old.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Koskinen is a proven, legit NHL goalie. See what I did there?

Lavoie is a work in progress. I think he has the size and skill to make the NHL. He has to improve a number of areas of his game, and to me the #1 part of that is consistency.

Heck he is only 21 years old.

yes he is a work in progress and Koskinen is a cap dump together they are not worh Georgiev.

 

[bernmeister]

Well I'd probably pull the trigger on your original proposal then. Not bad, bern.

Still wish we had tried to pull the trigger on a deal for Buch. What a missed opportunity.

while if we expand our view generally speaking there is often enuf blame to go around, here I blame NYR braintrust for wanting its cake and eat it too.
As I have said frequently, on this one, I was right and they were wrong.
Obv, had we dealt Buch sooner with more term, we would have gotten the high pick from EDM. Would have hurt short term but worth it long term.

a struggling AHL player who was 2nd rounder few years ago and never played in NHL is not enough for a proven legit NHL goalie.

stop w/win now bs
he is close enuf to draft selection to arguably remain 2nd round value
for the moment.
he has upside even if how that potential translates to NHL remains to be seen

Geo was on the block for a 1st for coupla yrs.
He commands, but not THAT much

also you are ignoring the pick upgrade

 

[Flan the incredible]

I think that Lavoie is a fair price. he is a 6'3 center with speed and hands who just needs some development time. That is the typical 2nd round pick player that is 3 years into his career. There is a few goalies that we can get in the same rough price range like MAF, Korposalo, Holtby, Quick, Varlamov or Driedger. Some of those guys will be a little more cost to acquire but have some term which is worth paying for. Geo does not have as good a resume as any of those guys, so the oilers are not going to pay more for a bigger question mark if they do make a run.

Rangers can't acquire half of those guys because the do not have the cap space next year so I am not sure why you would even mention them. Lavoie isn't showing much in the AHL and was now drafted 3 years ago so his draft round doesn't mean much. Gauthier showed much more when the Rangers acquired him at we got him for Joey Keane who has done zero. Gauthier is also not a lock to even be on this team if he doesn't start producing. I am not going to say Lavoie is a bust because he is only 21 but the Rangers have guys who are outplaying him in the AHL in Gettinger, Ronning, Brodzinski who are all meh or shouldn't be on the NHL roster. I just dont see much value in him right now. Hajak probably has similar value.

I just dont see any reason to move a goalie who is performing who should probably get a starting job somewhere next year for a downgrade in net, a small increase in draft position in the mid rounds and a prospect who hasn't shown much of anything while also giving up a 6th or 7th dman. I just dont see how it helps the Rangers today when they are fighting for position in the playoffs. I only see it hurting them and thats why I can't see Drury even considering this. He would have to be blown away by a return because they could just trade him at the draft and get an equal or better return.

 

[Flan the incredible]

He commands a current 2nd not more unless
pick is not current but later
he is retained
we are taking back cap dump

a la carte pricing which the package complies with....


You make a good pt about Geo as insurance, but the risk of maybe Shesty goes down is not dominant over certainty of getting a useful asset which we can apply or flip to upgrade a draft pick.
We have not yet fully recovered from all those bad desperation deals, along with draft selections that underwhelmed. Upgrading on both Strome + Geo, both of whom we can't afford to keep anyway as established math, is the correct move to up our chances for multiple seasons going forward.

To me this package is to just make a move to make a move. It doesn't do anything for the Rangers today nor even move the bar for the future. If the Rangers could get a 2nd in the upcoming draft that would hold more value then this entire package.

Oh and you probably should get used to Strome in a Rangers jersey because I doubt he is going anywhere.

 

[TFHockey]

yes he is a work in progress and Koskinen is a cap dump together they are not worh Georgiev.

Compare Koskinen's numbers vs. Georgeiv:

2018-19	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		55	2.93	0.906	|
2019-20	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		38	2.75	0.917	|	PLAYOFFS	4	3.16	0.889
2020-21	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		26	3.17	0.899	|
2021-22	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		20	3.19	0.900

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2019-20	New York Rangers	NHL		34	3.04	0.910	|
2020-21	New York Rangers	NHL		19	2.71	0.905	|
2021-22	New York Rangers	NHL		17	2.71	0.908

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Georgeiv's are only slightly better and he has a much better defense in front of him. Think it over before you start making unrealistic statements. Oiler fans have every reason to be concerned Georgeiv isn't any better than Koskinen. Like AT ALL.

 

[GOilers88]

Compare Koskinen's numbers vs. Georgeiv:

2018-19	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		55	2.93	0.906	|
2019-20	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		38	2.75	0.917	|	PLAYOFFS	4	3.16	0.889
2020-21	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		26	3.17	0.899	|
2021-22	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		20	3.19	0.900

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2019-20	New York Rangers	NHL		34	3.04	0.910	|
2020-21	New York Rangers	NHL		19	2.71	0.905	|
2021-22	New York Rangers	NHL		17	2.71	0.908

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Georgeiv's are only slightly better and he has a much better defense in front of him. Think it over before you start making unrealistic statements. Oiler fans have every reason to be concerned Georgeiv isn't any better than Koskinen. Like AT ALL.

While I'm still skeptical about Georgiev Im starting to think there's good odds that someone who is even just the same would have an impact on the Oilers. They've never played well in front of Koski consistently. You can tell there's no faith there. For that reason I've warmed to a lateral move.

 

[IIxGURUxII]

I'd leave Hajek out of the deal .. and let the Rangers decide on Lavoie or the 3rd

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Compare Koskinen's numbers vs. Georgeiv:

2018-19	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		55	2.93	0.906	|
2019-20	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		38	2.75	0.917	|	PLAYOFFS	4	3.16	0.889
2020-21	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		26	3.17	0.899	|
2021-22	Edmonton Oilers	NHL		20	3.19	0.900

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2019-20	New York Rangers	NHL		34	3.04	0.910	|
2020-21	New York Rangers	NHL		19	2.71	0.905	|
2021-22	New York Rangers	NHL		17	2.71	0.908

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Georgeiv's are only slightly better and he has a much better defense in front of him. Think it over before you start making unrealistic statements. Oiler fans have every reason to be concerned Georgeiv isn't any better than Koskinen. Like AT ALL.

Defense was not much better during that period. Georgiev is a lot younger and cheaper and is a UFA after this season. Why are you even comparing them?

 

[TFHockey]

Defense was not much better during that period. Georgiev is a lot younger and cheaper and is a UFA after this season. Why are you even comparing them?

Because Oiler fans have steadfastly maintained that Georgiev isn't a surefire upgrade on Koskinen. There is genuine risk in this trade.

Also, Georgeiv isn't a UFA at the end of this season. He is an RFA and will need to be qualified.

Almost every team has had better defense than the Oilers during the past five years.