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Generational Talent vs Franchise Player

Generational Players don't exist anymore.
The talent level overall is too high for a player to reach the status.
Players can have strong seasons even two or three in a row, but the flat out dominance needed to separate oneself form the pack, just doesn't happen anymore.
Ovechkins Goal scoring being the only thing with a valid argument for being close to generational.
Since Crosby entered the League, his Peak offensive season still sits behind Thornton and Jagr.
He lead the league in scoring in 06, and 14, with 2 richard(1 shared with Stamkos) and 2 Conn Smythes (both there are arguments that can be made for being undeserved) if he was truly Generational he'd be dominating the league and there'd be no questions about his accomplishments compared to his peers. Injuries may be the cause, but he hasn't dominated the league the way a Generational player should.
With even his own teammate at times being the better player.

Crosby and Malkin are prime examples of Franchise players.
in any one season they could be the absolute best player in the league, and are among the top just about every season, but they aren't head and shoulders above everyone all the time.
 
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The way I understand it, basically the generational player can leave your team while the franchise player is more committed to the area.
 
geoo9 said:
It almost impossible to win SC if your team have only 1 big player. Opponents just shuts him up covering 60 min. You need second one.
Getz Perry
Sid Malkin
Ovie Kuzy
Kaner Toews (maybe)
Idea is you need somebody who usues that when opponents shut ure top player.
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You forgot about having Pronger and Nieds back on the blueline for the ducks. Perry and Getzlaf has done jack without them. Had the Oilers won a cup with Pronger, you might equate Pisani and Hemsky to Perry and Getzlaf. All this generational discussion and no mention of Pronger and Niedermeyer. How sad. Look at the number of cups Niedermeyer has. Bet someone will say he road off Marty Brodeur. Maybe some of you may want to watch some devils highlights of their cup wins. Brodeur has done squat since Niedermeyer left. Same with getzlaf and perry. Switch the D to Fowler and montour and there is your answer to suckage.

Niedermeyer = generational D.
 
Jagr should be part of the generational discussion. Sure he had Mario but he carried his own line.

Pronger is a once in a lifetime D that will never be seen again in the NHL. Mean, nasty, booming shot, elite shutdown, and dictates the pace. He played at a time where he can take cheap shots without getting penalized and struck fear to any forwards in the front of the net.

Karlsson and Doughty are not even in the same stratosphere as Lidstrom, Pronger and Niedermeyer.

Pavel Bure would be generational had he had better teammates. Playing with Mogilny and a washed up Messier pretty much flushed his career. It doesn't help much when you are playing with boat anchors like Sandlak, Momesso and Courtnall during your prime. Just like Mcdavid with Lucic and Chiasson.

Forsberg should also be in the conversation of generational. Perhaps the greatest swede of all time.
 
Boxscore said:
Let's face it, McDavid is extremely impressive. What he's done at his age is absolutely remarkable. I don't think anyone can argue with, or deny, that. But there is some validity in what the other poster was saying if we want to remove all bias and look at this objectively.

McDavid won the Art Ross last year by 6 points. He scored 8 points more than the player who is outscoring him by 15 points this very minute. Point being, he is the odds on favorite to win the Art Ross any given season, but he is no lock, and he does not lap the field. Players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, etc. straight up lapped the field. McDavid beats Kucherov by 8 points one season then loses to him by say 10 the next. What's that honestly say? That McDavid is among the players who can contend for the Art Ross consistently.

Meanwhile, Gretzky was winning scoring titles on his assists alone. Lemieux was fighting cancer, missing time and practice (let alone the physical and emotional anguish) and was still dominating the league and winning scoring titles. That, right there, is what you call immortal. Nobody was coming in and outscoring gods like Gretzky and Lemieux at their best... wasn't happening. The only thing that could hurt Mario was a back so injured that he couldn't even put his carry-on atop the airplane.

The problems that some fans have is that we live in this unrealistic "we want everything now" world and it's no different in sports. After 4-5 years, Gretzky still wasn't considered "Gretzky" in the eyes of most. Yet, today, a player like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Giroux, McDavid, Kane, Karlsson, Price, has a few incredible years and people want to immediately label them "the greatest AINEC!!!"

The NHL marketing machine was hyping up Crosby and shinning him off as great as Gretzky when he was 25 years old, with 1 Cup and a few major awards under his belt. Today, McDavid is the new "Gretzky" and the greatest thing all-time. While he's great, let me tell you something... there's no way Nikita Kucherov would be leading a prime Gretzky or Lemieux by 15 points at the end of February.

McDavid COULD end up a demigod. He has accomplished more in a few years than almost all of the elites, but he needs to actually DO IT consistently the way Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, etc. did it. Or the way Ovechkin does it with goals.
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To quote a very wise man......

"Git your logic outta here bud you sound like a goof"!

I'll never understand the fanboys that need to white night McDavid.

He's an amazing talent, the most consistent player out there. But if you dare mention anyone else being in his neck of the woods you';re a "goof" a "hater" or "have you even hockey'd"?

Sorry, Kooch is every bit as good as McDavid is this year.

I mean he's almost 20 points ahead of him and he's not slowing down.
 
Mattews is generational talent and arguably has GOAT primary shot in his wrister with the angle changing technique he invented. Goalies have no way of knowing where he aims and need to rely on positioning. He had 10 goals and 16 points in first 6 games to start out the season before injuries and it takes long time to get back in form but still has 1.2 p/gp and still keeps shocking the league. Ever since he scored 4 goals in his debut every elite fan knew he was special
 
When a player changes the game, he’s generational. Lots of franchise players but none are generational. I can’t name 5.
 
How can McDavid be considered "generational" when he can't even get his team in the playoffs?

He can put up the points for sure and is amazing talent, but pump the brakes on the praise until he actually makes his team better which is what truly "generational" players are capable of.

Lemieux did this...Gretzky and Orr too....Crosby as well...but McDavid needs to prove more to be worked into the same conversations as these legends.
 
IDK the only generational players I have ever seen are Gretzky, Lemiux and Crosby. Then there's the next teer that includes guys like Messier who put up the numbers and a lot of pop but just are not at the level of those other players who see the ice differently. The only player currently in the NHL who I think has the potential to be a generational player is Connor McDavid. No one else. I never thought Ovechkin was generational. He is probably going to go down as one of the greatest goalscorers of all time but he is in that Messier tier.
 
BabyPanda said:
The Sedins are perfect examples of franchise players. Face of a franchise, you can't think of that era of that team without thinking of them.
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Could you also say the Sedins is a "Generational Duo"?

It is very rare for twin brothers with such high talent to play on the same team and same line, and becoming the face of a franchise.

Their style of play have also influenced the game in some ways.
 
Generational are players like Crosby and Ovechkin.

Franchise are players like Kane, Malkin, Matthews, MacKinnon, Kucherov, etc.

Still waiting to see where McDavid shakes out.
 
Only generational players I have seen play in my lifetime are Gretzky, Lemieux, Hasek, Roy, Lidstrom, Ovechkin.
 
Enel said:
Could you also say the Sedins is a "Generational Duo"?

It is very rare for twin brothers with such high talent to play on the same team and same line, and becoming the face of a franchise.

Their style of play have also influenced the game in some ways.
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I wouldn't say that no. I'd use a ton of other words to describe the impressiveness of it
 
OilerTitanFan said:
You forgot about having Pronger and Nieds back on the blueline for the ducks. Perry and Getzlaf has done jack without them. Had the Oilers won a cup with Pronger, you might equate Pisani and Hemsky to Perry and Getzlaf. All this generational discussion and no mention of Pronger and Niedermeyer. How sad. Look at the number of cups Niedermeyer has. Bet someone will say he road off Marty Brodeur. Maybe some of you may want to watch some devils highlights of their cup wins. Brodeur has done squat since Niedermeyer left. Same with getzlaf and perry. Switch the D to Fowler and montour and there is your answer to suckage.

Niedermeyer = generational D.
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agreed , my post was mostly for guys who uses team awars to judge indidual greatness. That just unfair and stupid. Sid wont win withoud malkin like your examples. nobody win awards alone by his ephemeral stat @Winner@.
TO judge somebody y need just use individual stats- not team
 
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