Generational Talent vs Franchise Player | Page 5 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
Toggle sidebar

Generational Talent vs Franchise Player

Boxscore said:
This is an interesting post and I think your point is extremely valid - I know what you mean. I've also said it for years, that when all players in the NHL are at their very best, the two scariest (skill wise) are Malkin and Kane. The problem is, neither player can sustain that level enough to own tons of awards and NHL records. When Malkin is "on" he can be as dominant as prime Jagr at times. I remember watching Jagr in the 90's (as a Flyers fan) and I would be scared to death when he touched the puck. Mario, forget about it. He was so great, I waived the white flag and learned to marvel at his gifts. Over the years, there's be some times where Geno is in the on position and scares the bajesus out of me. Ironically, Crosby never does. He just doesn't. He's very talented and skilled, but he's not scary. So I know what you mean about Malkin - big, rangy, elusive, great one-on-one moves, etc.
Click to expand...

It really is ironic, because if you watched him during his peak, which was likely 08-13ish, he was scary. In his back to back runs in 08 and 09, every time he touched the puck I thought something was going to happen. In the 09 series against the caps, OV was a monster. Crosby was better. Watching that series from a caps fan perspective, I don't know how you couldn't be worried when Crosby was on the ice. He created something every play. Babcock put the shutdown pair and had Z shadow him in that finals series because he was that scary. Post concussion Crosby isn't even the same player.
 
varank said:
you hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't call Malkin a generational player though, however he does belong in that group (87/8/97) if that makes sense because he can play at that level and has shown that he can, just hasn't done it with the consistency the others have.

I wouldn't put Kane in that group though. He's clearly better than all of the names listed. He's in an awkward spot in b/w the big 3/4 and the others
Click to expand...

Malkin is so underrated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: varank
The Sedins are perfect examples of franchise players. Face of a franchise, you can't think of that era of that team without thinking of them.

I think that generational is very exclusive. You have to define an era to be generational. 50 years from now, nobody is going to call the Kane era or the Malkin era, it'll be the Crosby era. There's the Gretzky era, there's the Orr era, to be generational you have to be more than just the best player in the world. You have to define the age.

I don't know basketball or football but I know Jordan, LeBron, Manning, Joe Montana etc. I don't know baseball but I know Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. My wife doesn't follow soccer and she knows Pele and Rinaldo. Boxing had Tyson and Ali.

The thing that makes generational players is that they define a generation. They can't just be the best of a generation, they have to be dominant and bigger than the generation.
 
Boxscore said:
No. He's not 5th all-time in my opinion. And his resume is beginning to stagnate in terms of potential legend status. McDavid and others seem to have a lock down on Art Rosses and Harts. The Pens are not the Pens of old and it appears their Cup wins are past them, although you never know for sure. Crosby also doesn't score enough these days to amass immortal Jagr level points when it's all said and done. Again, nothing is impossible I guess, but I don't see it..
Click to expand...

You didn't answer the questions:

"As for Crosby being 5th all-time, you don't think he has a case for having the #5 best resume at age 31/after 15 seasons?"

"If the # of Rosses and Harts is the be all, end all of player evaluation, where do you rank Beliveau and Richard all-time? I am assuming behind Jagr or Esposito?"


 
Generational players win multiple championships for their teams or are far ahead of other "superstars" in game play.

In hockey(skaters) there's Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe and Crosby I consider as generational in the last 40 or so years, all the rest are franchise superstar players. (Patrick Kane is close IMO)

Only when Kucherov, McDavid or even AO prove they can drive their teams to multiple great things will they move from franchise player to generational. I will say Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer though!
 
Johnnybegood13 said:
Generational players win multiple championships for their teams or are far ahead of other "superstars" in game play.

In hockey(skaters) there's Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe and Crosby I consider as generational in the last 40 or so years, all the rest are franchise superstar players. (Patrick Kane is close IMO)

Only when Kucherov, McDavid or even AO prove they can drive their teams to multiple great things will they move from franchise player to generational. I will say Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer though!
Click to expand...
BS. If Crosby had Malkin to help win all those titles having similar (almost) help to do that - how Ovie can do Same if Backstrom cant step up when it needed
 
geoo9 said:
BS. If Crosby had Malkin to help win all those titles having similar (almost) help to do that - how Ovie can do Same if Backstrom cant step up when it needed
Click to expand...

Maybe if OV played as good as Crosby in the playoffs, he may have won more.
 
It almost impossible to win SC if your team have only 1 big player. Opponents just shuts him up covering 60 min. You need second one.
Getz Perry
Sid Malkin
Ovie Kuzy
Kaner Toews (maybe)
Idea is you need somebody who usues that when opponents shut ure top player.
 
geoo9 said:
why crosby - not malkin ? Malkin was big force at all their succesful SC Runs if not bigger than Sid
Click to expand...

Because the debate is OV vs. Crosby. Crosby is a better playoff performer, period. Higher PPG, better all around offensive player, better all around player.

There is no reason to think that Crosby doesn't have team success regardless of what team he is on. He is the definition of a winner.

For the record, he is not so far ahead of OV that he is closer to the Big 4 than he is to OV, nor would I put him with the Big 4 in any context, let alone the completely semantics-based argument of "generational".

I think both players are doing things that will put them right at the top of the Best of the Rest, and maybe, just maybe Crosby could find his way in to making it the Big 5 if he continues to stay at an elite level that would surpass Howe's longevity. The same thing could be said about OV if he keeps up his goalscoring.
 
Of the current players, if we are going to use the term generational, knowing it means different things to different people, I think there's only two: Crosby and Ovechkin.

McDavid has been around long enough. Is the trajectory phenomenal? Sure. But too early in the career to call him "generational".

Malkin, Thornton, Kane .... no. Really good players, even great players, even "franchise" players, but no.
 
geoo9 said:
It almost impossible to win SC if your team have only 1 big player. Opponents just shuts him up covering 60 min. You need second one.
Getz Perry
Sid Malkin
Ovie Kuzy
Kaner Toews (maybe)
Idea is you need somebody who usues that when opponents shut ure top player.
Click to expand...

Kane is close to generational and yes Toews is definitely a Franchise player. He and Kane saved the franchise when they arrived on the scene and are the faces of the Franchise (both have awards, medals, championships)
 
In what world is McDavid on the same level as Kane?

Did Kane have an Art Ross (x2), Lindsay (x2), and a Hart by age 21. For that matter none of Ovi, Crosby, or Malkin did. So I fail to see how he is somehow below them.
 
To me...Generational = (approximately) a once in a generation talent. These are players who are perennially the best at their position in the league. Guys who are getting individual trophies, or serious consideration for them, nearly every season. E.g., McDavid, Crosby, Ovi.

Franchise = players who are perennially among the top players at their position in the league but rarely the very best. Might collect a couple individual awards in their peak years, but they're not consistently besting their peers like generational talents do. E.g., Kane, Karlsson, Stamkos.
 
Johnnybegood13 said:
Generational players win multiple championships for their teams or are far ahead of other "superstars" in game play.

In hockey(skaters) there's Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe and Crosby I consider as generational in the last 40 or so years, all the rest are franchise superstar players. (Patrick Kane is close IMO)

Only when Kucherov, McDavid or even AO prove they can drive their teams to multiple great things will they move from franchise player to generational. I will say Ovechkin is a generational goal scorer though!
Click to expand...
Ovechkin just won a cup and Smythe as captain.....what more do you want? How silly.
daver said:
Because the debate is OV vs. Crosby. Crosby is a better playoff performer, period. Higher PPG, better all around offensive player, better all around player.

There is no reason to think that Crosby doesn't have team success regardless of what team he is on. He is the definition of a winner.

For the record, he is not so far ahead of OV that he is closer to the Big 4 than he is to OV, nor would I put him with the Big 4 in any context, let alone the completely semantics-based argument of "generational".

I think both players are doing things that will put them right at the top of the Best of the Rest, and maybe, just maybe Crosby could find his way in to making it the Big 5 if he continues to stay at an elite level that would surpass Howe's longevity. The same thing could be said about OV if he keeps up his goalscoring.
Click to expand...
Crosby has no cups without Malkin and Kessel. Stop putting team achievements as individual ones. Crosby hasn’t lead his in production in any of their cup victories, Malkin has twice.

Crosby can be seen as the better playoff performer. But Ovechkin now has both of the achievements that basically kept him out of the running of any legendary status and kept him out of Crosby’s “class.”
 
McDavid is a franchise player like Sebastian Aho is for his franchise.

Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin are Generational players of their Generation and the kids need to prove themselves for a generation to get to that level.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom