Generational Talent vs Franchise Player

[Panthaz89]

Are we talking about hockey or individual awards in a local league?

And do we cut off a career at 21 for evaluation?

Circumstances prevented Kucherov from racking up statistical evidence for objective quality of a player at 18-19. Just as circumstances prevent McDavid from being less than 15 points behind Kucherov right now.

The obsession with stats and awards is avery NA thing. But numbers can't fool me when I see a player on the ice. McDavid is special. So is Kucherov. I don't care if they could hold a hockey stivk as toddlers.

Kucherov wasn't even close to that player at that age....but ok.

 

[Nathaniel]

Since 2000, the "generational" talents that have come into the league can be ranked as follows:

Crosby
OV/McDavid
Malkin

Karlsson/Kane

Malkin>Mcdavid as of right now

 

[Machinehead]

I like "franchise" because I feel like there's a big gap between elite and generational.

 

[Goose]

I like "franchise" because I feel like there's a big gap between elite and generational.

Agreed. As a Leafs fan, Matthews is a franchise player at this point, I cringe every time someone even hints at him being generational.

Even McDavid I think it’s too soon to anoint him generational.

Crosby/Ovi are the only two recent, clear, indisputables for generational.

 

[Machinehead]

Agreed. As a Leafs fan, Matthews is a franchise player at this point, I cringe every time someone even hints at him being generational.

Even McDavid I think it’s too soon to anoint him generational.

Crosby/Ovi are the only two recent, clear, indisputables for generational.

For me, growing up, it was Brian Leetch.

It was disingenuous to call Brian Leetch generational, but elite is an insult to Leetch.

 

[Mildan]

By the word generational means that such talent comes along approximately every 25 years, meaning Gretzky, Lemioux.. And yea thats about it for last 50 years. Franchise players are the ones that are by the word face of the franchise or multiple franchises through their career. The ones where you think of a team and that players face pops up right away. You be the judge in which category McDavid fits better right now. For me they are the kinds of Crosby, McDavid, Barkov, Matthews etc.

 

[GOilers88]

It's purely semantics. It's that simple.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

While guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are likely Generational, I think McDavid is the only one you can call a Generational Superstar.

 

[McBackup]

They don’t actually mean anything, they’re just terms to generate hype.

“Generational” is a media term that gets thrown out to hype up prospects in the draft. If it really held any value it would be accurate to its definition and we would only see one every generation or so. There are just varying degrees of franchise players. Now every high picked franchise player is getting slapped with the term “generational”. If Matthews, Eichel, Pettersson, Dahlin, Laine, MacKinnon and so forth are “generational”, like they’ve been hyped up as, it really does water things down quite a bit.

 

[Goose]

By the word generational means that such talent comes along approximately every 25 years, meaning Gretzky, Lemioux.. And yea thats about it for last 50 years. Franchise players are the ones that are by the word face of the franchise or multiple franchises through their career. The ones where you think of a team and that players face pops up right away. You be the judge in which category McDavid fits better right now. For me they are the kinds of Crosby, McDavid, Barkov, Matthews etc.

I think it’s hard to define generational with a time stamp, I think Lemieux/Gretzky in the twilight of their career blended nicely into the arrival of Sid/Ovi, a guy like McDavid is showing up a little sooner than Sid/Ovi did to Gretz/Lemieux but it’s clear there’s room in the next few seasons for the next generation of superstars to step in. Who knows if anyone will fill those shoes for a while.

 

[Plub]

I'm still confused as to why McDavid is already on these "generational" lists or "best of all time" lists. The way people speak about him you would think he won the point race by 20 points every season he has been in the NHL, potting 50 goals along with his 80 assists... that has not been the case. Look at Kane who has been tearing up the NHL for years, Kuch just toying with players, etc...

OV, Crosby, and maybe Malkin/Kane are the generational players right now. That's it.

 

[Prince Pasta]

a Generational Talent to me would be a player you could insert into any generation who would immediately succeed.

 

[93LEAFS]

To even be in the discussion you have to win multiple Harts or Lindsay trophies without them both being in the same season. The only active players to do that are Crosby (5 combined), Ovechkin (6 combined) and McDavid (3 combined). Personally, I'd say this. Of players who have played in my lifetime. While voting for these things is far from perfect, I'd say a generational players dominance should be so easy to recognize it is reflected in these awards.

Clearly Generational:
Gretzky
Lemieux

Likely Generational:
Ovi, Crosby, Hasek

Have a strong case:
Jagr

All-time greats but not generational, but clear 1st ballot HHOF:
Kane, Sakic, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Yzerman, Roy, Fedorov, Malkin, Hull

Guys who had the talent, but had issues and injuries"
Lindros and Bure

It's too early to place McDavid. He's clearly tracking well but this is only his 4th year in the league. He was clearly a generational prospect like Lemieux, Lindros, and Crosby, and is tracking well.

 

[Alwalys]

the skill level of the top players in the league is remarkable.
it is starting to call into question exactly what is generational.
it may be that none of the current greats are truly generational.

 

[Panthaz89]

I'm still confused as to why McDavid is already on these "generational" lists or "best of all time" lists. The way people speak about him you would think he won the point race by 20 points every season he has been in the NHL, potting 50 goals along with his 80 assists... that has not been the case. Look at Kane who has been tearing up the NHL for years, Kuch just toying with players, etc...

OV, Crosby, and maybe Malkin/Kane are the generational players right now. That's it.

McDavid has more individual hardware than Malkin and Kane already......and has led the league in scoring twice in only 4 years in the league and is 3rd this year. Its just pretty clear that without any major setbacks he will go down as one of the greatest of all time.

 

[pvr]

To even be in the discussion you have to win multiple Harts or Lindsay trophies without them both being in the same season. The only active players to do that are Crosby (5 combined), Ovechkin (6 combined) and McDavid (3 combined). Personally, I'd say this. Of players who have played in my lifetime. While voting for these things is far from perfect, I'd say a generational players dominance should be so easy to recognize it is reflected in these awards.

Clearly Generational:
Gretzky
Lemieux

Likely Generational:
Ovi, Crosby, Hasek

Have a strong case:
Jagr

All-time greats but not generational, but clear 1st ballot HHOF:
Kane, Sakic, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Yzerman, Roy, Fedorov, Malkin, Hull

Guys who had the talent, but had issues and injuries"
Lindros and Bure

It's too early to place McDavid. He's clearly tracking well but this is only his 4th year in the league. He was clearly a generational prospect like Lemieux, Lindros, and Crosby, and is tracking well.

This is close to the mark. Problematically, most of the posters here haven’t seen a real “generational” player live in his prime. A generational player is obvious when he’s playing. Obvious.

McDavid is difficult to place right now...agree he’s likely in one of the first two categories. He looks generational, but hasn’t blown away the competition yet. Kucherov perhaps in the second or third category. Kane and Malkin...stories aren’t done..maybe move into second category.

Going from the 1950s onward:

Generational: Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux

Elite superstar: M Richard, Beliveau, Bobby Hull, P. Esposito, Borque, Hasek, Roy, Jagr, Lidstrom, Crosby, Ovechkin, maybe some others I’m forgetting. Perhaps 5-20 on the all time list of greats.

Superstar: The rest of the names people throw about around here...Malkin, Kane, Sakic, Yzerman, Brett Hull, Brodeur, Hall, etc... Perhaps 20-60 on the all time list.

Stars: Still a great of the game.

 

[SnarkAttack]

Joe Thornton. His name just needed to be mentioned in this thread.

People will always have different definitions, and there honestly shouldn't be firm definitions, as things change. I'm never going to have an argument about one unless a player is clearly put into the wrong category (e.g. Toews top100 all-time)

 

[joe dirte]

I came in here thinking I would see Matthew. I didn’t got awhile then he appeared. He is not generational. So step back.

No one said he is.

Its sad you felt you had to come in and post this.

 

[Auston Marlander]

Agreed. As a Leafs fan, Matthews is a franchise player at this point, I cringe every time someone even hints at him being generational.

Even McDavid I think it’s too soon to anoint him generational.

Crosby/Ovi are the only two recent, clear, indisputables for generational.

Agreed, Generational is something you earn, not something given at the beginning of your career. It's an accolade for your achievements.

 

[Voight]

Lit of generational talents in NHL history

Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid. Jagr is a close one.

 

[LeHab]

Franchise player is a player team can build around.
Generational player is a franchise player every teams wants to build around.

 

[Plub]

While guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are likely Generational, I think McDavid is the only one you can call a Generational Superstar.

I'm not even sure you can call him generational quite yet.

 

[discobob]

This thread needs less McDavid koolaid

 

[Mildan]

I think it’s hard to define generational with a time stamp, I think Lemieux/Gretzky in the twilight of their career blended nicely into the arrival of Sid/Ovi, a guy like McDavid is showing up a little sooner than Sid/Ovi did to Gretz/Lemieux but it’s clear there’s room in the next few seasons for the next generation of superstars to step in. Who knows if anyone will fill those shoes for a while.

Yes, generational players might come along closer to each other than 25 years and then again further apart. but it still describes the rarity of such individual. There should be approximately 3-5 generational players every 100 years, so sayingthat the great one, lemioux, crosby, ovi and mcdavid would all fit this description within single 35 year period is not realistic. Just to clarify my point I'll quote description of generation: The generation time is the average time between two consecutive generations in the lineages of a population. In human populations, the generation time typically ranges from 22 to 33 years. Wikipedia

 

[Auston Marlander]

I'm not even sure you can call him generational quite yet.

You can't, he needs to prove it over a generation. He will likely be, and us a safe bet, but 4 years in doesn't make anyone generational..