This is complete and utter nonsense. Lajunen was beyond useless on the EHT, losing every battle he bothered being in position for and producing no offense out of his gambits.
WC: General Talk '14 — Finland (Part II)
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This is complete and utter nonsense. Lajunen was beyond useless on the EHT, losing every battle he bothered being in position for and producing no offense out of his gambits.
Again with the straw man hyperboles. You're soon not worth responding anymore.
And Teräväinen didn't have one, but three good games. He was in the team before EHT, you know. Only one that went off the deep end for him was the one where he played on Kontiola's wing.
Karalahti belongs, he belonged even before the tournament, so throwing him as a comparison piece is another fool's errand. However, as rduck1 pointed out, Pokka did outplay Lajunen on the EHT. And seriously, Marttinen and Korpikari before Ristolainen and Järvinen is nothing but lazy scouting.
And nobody's saying TT and Keränen should have made it in before Kontiola, Lehterä or Jokinen. However, Erkka picked SEVEN grinders and TWO skill guys to play on the wings, so don't come telling me he couldn't have looked for players of different profile to replace some of those seven.
Seriously, stop embarassing yourself.
First Pretournament game against Slovakia Teräväinen was great and that was his only good game. Second game he didnt create anything was visibly non visible. The two games he played in EHT he was outmatched against sweden and played ok against Czech but maybe your standards are more loose he had 1 Good game from 4. He wasnt ready for NHL, he didnt produce at AHL and neither did he succeed at Mens National team. Just wasnt ready thats how i see it.
I agree on Ristolainen Järvinen would have made my team and i quess that can be called lazy scouting or whatever. I strongly disagree on Pokka thats another hindsight praise because he didnt do well enough at EHT.
If you're really saying that final game against the Czechs wasn't a good one from Teräväinen, I'd like to ask your surgeon where he installed your eyes.
And you still didn't say anything to that grinder-to-skill ratio, most likely because you can't justify it.
Neither did Lajunen. At the very least, Erkka should have sat on the decision 'til Ristolainen's situation cleared. Which was due to happen that night.
I get what kind of person you appear to be. You take a shining to somebody and they can do no harm in your eyes. Erkka's made the club, obviously. But there's no excusing it - the Prof messed up here big time and will have to live with this sendoff for the rest of his life.
For the first i kind of already answered the leading players had to play well for this team succeed. Jokinen/Kontiola/Lehterä/Komarov/Hietanen/Immonen havent played well that was my point before tournament and is now. If those guys fail it doesnt matter how the skill grinder ratio in the team is. Sadly you cannot change the entire team during tournament to young skill players. Like i said wishful thinking that Teräväinen and co would have come and outplayed and carried this team from over Jokinen/Kontiola and co.
For the second i also asnwered it was choice between bad EHT showing Lajunen and bad EHT showing Pokka id just go with the more veteran guy. Ristolainen/Järvinen should have been in the team and I dont know why theyre not Erkka failed in that or the scouting that whispers the AHL players to him.
It's pretty much a hockey regularity that you can't get very far if your offense consists of one skill unit and three that got hands of stone.
Jokinen and Immonen and can't do much all by themselves if they have to play with guys like Pakarinen and Huhtala. I don't mean to dump on them, they're good grinders and bring tons of energy but should have no business in a scoring unit. Not on this level at least.
Had Konna & Lehterä buried more in every game we wouldn't be in this mess, but it's an insanely thin line to just cross your hands and wish they give it a 110 in every game. You need another unit that at least has the potential to bury it. And seriously, guys like Komarov and Pakarinen, as much as I still love them, are not the solution. You can't expect TT or Keränen to carry the team any more than you can a guy like Kontiola, but at least you have some guys in the team you can expect to generate some secondary offense. Now the team has none, because the rest of the centres lack skilled wingers to play with.
One first line, three fourth lines. Seriously, you don't really know much about hockey if you think that's okay. It's not - it's mental. Erkka didn't trust the youngsters though, so he just crossed his hands and hoped it'd be enough. Well, everybody can friggin' see it isn't. Had he even attempted to build another skill unit, nobody would be peppering him.
Theres two offensive lines. That of Kontiolas and that of Jokinens. Like i said leading players failed. The extra forwards in world championship teams have commonly been energy players kinda like Haula that bring extra spark to this long tournament. To back up your leading players incase they fail has not commonly been in use. Leading players must succeed theres no backup plan for that.
Kari Jalonen was watching the game today and if he learned anything he wont use Komarov as offensive player in his teams.
Kari Jalonen was watching the game today and if he learned anything he wont use Komarov as offensive player in his teams.
The second line only became one after Haula joined. If Minny had advanced, we would still have only one. You can't trust OJ to generate offense with Komarov and Pakarinen. He's no superman.
So yeah, Erkka still messed up when originally setting up the team. No excuses.
I suggest you take a look at the teams Jukka Jalonen built in his tenure. The ratio heavily favored skill guys.
If Erkka picked the team right in your mind, WHO should he have used out of that roster, then? Sounds like you just admitted it's one frigged up team. Because seriously, you really didn't need these games to see that Komarov's strengths lie elsewhere.
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+ Markus Granlund (injured?), Joel Armia (caught fire in the playoffs) & Ilari Melart. Maybe even Jani Hakanpää.
Do we (=Hockey Federation) even scout the AHL?
Likely not. I can understand that the coach doesn't do it because he's busy charting the euro leagues.
It would be a good duty for a guy like GM, though. Too bad ours is an empty coat who thinks he's done his job when he flies over to see a handful of NHL games and gets drunk on Selänne's villa. Both on Liitto's expense.
Hakanpää was still playing a couple of days ago, btw.
To be honest i was expecting a lot more from Komarov. His been the most dissapointing ones. Hands down worlds better fourth liners and his not a complete woodhand but was really hoping he would do well given this rare chance to play offensive role. Failed to step into profilic role which has been often mentioned for him.
Yep, we have all kinds of GMs and team managers and scouts, all of whom seem to be washed up old players and members of the infamous sauna club... If only we had competent management...
Well, at least we know KJ can build teams on his own, so we should be good for a while.
Re: The claim that we're always trusting to ride the top unit w/o additional offense... well, let's just see how much skill we've hauled in from the start of the Jalonen tenure.
2009: N.Kapanen, Hagman, Miettinen, Hyvönen, S.Kapanen, Immonen, Vahalahti, Kerman (8)
2010: Immonen, Kontiola, Aaltonen, J.Jokinen, S.Kapanen, Miettinen, Lehterä + Korpikoski as a creature who's technically a grinder but can also generate offense. (8)
2011: Immonen, Granlund, Koivu, Pesonen, N.Kapanen, Aaltonen, Lahti + Ruutu (8)
2012: Koivu, Filppula, J.Jokinen, Immonen, Granlund, Pesonen, N.Kapanen, Kontiola (8)
2013: Kontiola, Aaltonen, Pesonen, Salminen, Haataja + Korpikoski. There would have been more had there not been a centre drought. (6)
2014: Kontiola, O.Jokinen, Immonen, Lehterä, Palola/Aaltonen (5)
Bottom line: Jalonen essentially always aimed to bring in enough talent to not fill out two, but three lines. Some of those names are of the kind who should not have been there of course, but at least Jalonen had the RIGHT IDEA. And Erikfromfin was caught speaking out of his backside again.
2009: N.Kapanen, Hagman, Miettinen, Hyvönen, S.Kapanen, Immonen, Vahalahti, Kerman (8)
2010: Immonen, Kontiola, Aaltonen, J.Jokinen, S.Kapanen, Miettinen, Lehterä + Korpikoski as a creature who's technically a grinder but can also generate offense. (8)
2011: Immonen, Granlund, Koivu, Pesonen, N.Kapanen, Aaltonen, Lahti + Ruutu (8)
2012: Koivu, Filppula, J.Jokinen, Immonen, Granlund, Pesonen, N.Kapanen, Kontiola (8)
2013: Kontiola, Aaltonen, Pesonen, Salminen, Haataja + Korpikoski. There would have been more had there not been a centre drought. (6)
2014: Kontiola, O.Jokinen, Immonen, Lehterä, Palola/Aaltonen (5)
Bottom line: Jalonen essentially always aimed to bring in enough talent to not fill out two, but three lines. Some of those names are of the kind who should not have been there of course, but at least Jalonen had the RIGHT IDEA. And Erikfromfin was caught speaking out of his backside again.
And hey, Lehtinen is known as a guy with good working morale. Not to mention that one doesn't really have to do much to be more useful than Kurri.
To point out Jukka only medaled once in those skill fullfilled teams you posted. Give Erkka 4 more tournaments where he might actully get those Aaltonens/Granlunds and co skill forwards i think he would do just as well and most likely a lot better.
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Jalonen mostly operated with subpar material as well, but at least we were never in real danger of being dropped out of the medal round. Those teams had occasional collapses, but they always rallied.
And it's not like all of those skill guys were proven names. Jalonen took plenty stabs in the dark, mostly with old farts like Kerman, Hyvönen, Haataja and whatnot, but at least he tried. And even if said guys never created plenty scoring, at least they were skilled enough to actually execute the game plan. Which clearly can't be said of this year's no-hands-squad.
I've no doubt that Erkka would get far if he had eight proven skill guys at his disposal, but as you can see, neither did Jalonen. And Erkka could have easily filled the quota by taking Teräväinen and Keränen.
Yeah but unfortunately nothing makes his performance in this tournament great either. Sure he can make some good passes, but even in that department his linemate Kontiola has been better, not to mention that Kontiola can actually score. So far Lehterä has been quite invisible considering his role.
Lajunen lost all his battles in EHT. But majority of our d's failed.
"once in decade or two" So i assume Barkov, Ma. Granlund and Teräväinen are going to be **** in NT..
You're right, about Mikko being team leader, but did you see why was Immonen on fire? Well, it couldnt been coz of Granlund passing pucks to him. Immonen needs playmaker on his side.
Of course there were key players missing, but i've never seen so bad NT. Either it's players mental side or coaching but we have lost most 1 on 1 battles in our d-zone. It seems that our gameplan was to dumb the puck in corners and create goal chances from there. I just wonder how is that going to work, when most times we didnt pressure the defenders enough. ( center was @ blueline, so opposite team wouldnt create counterstrikes)
This seems to have become Erkka's plan the second he realized that he's not gonna enough proven quality. The team composition tells as much. He didn't want to trust unproven youngsters to generate offense, so he decided that he'll have one unit that will hopefully pot 1-2 goals per game and then they can just ride Rinne till the final horn. He did trust unproven first-timers enough though to execute that plan.
It was such a blast, back to the 70s after all the work Jukka Jalonen did to upgrade not just the whole plan, but the whole culture, that you kinda can't be anything but happy that it backfired. Such royal crapping of bed should NOT be rewarded.
Periwinkle
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- Apr 3, 2014
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I want to trash this team for being such a sack of suck but I also feel empathy towards them. They can't be unaware of the critisim with everyone saying they are terrible, half don't deserve to be on the team etc. But still, these at least are the players who did bother to show up.
It doesn't mean they don't deserve critisism but I'm mostly pissed off at Erkka and some of the key players for underperforming. I still roll my eyes for every stone hands moment (Komarov in particular seemed to have many in this game) and terrible defensive plays. It does seem there is some sort of panic/disarray in the team, and it must be hard to play with all the public trashing (that this message also contributes to....). I wonder if Lehterä in particular will have "mental fatigue" around this time next year...
It doesn't mean they don't deserve critisism but I'm mostly pissed off at Erkka and some of the key players for underperforming. I still roll my eyes for every stone hands moment (Komarov in particular seemed to have many in this game) and terrible defensive plays. It does seem there is some sort of panic/disarray in the team, and it must be hard to play with all the public trashing (that this message also contributes to....). I wonder if Lehterä in particular will have "mental fatigue" around this time next year...
well said.
About Komarov, I think it showed in the Olympics already that he just doesn't have it to be a top-6 player at the international level.
He wants to be there, he tries his best, he gives his all - but 3rd line is where he belongs. Energy forward, pest, he's perfect at that. But just not good enough to be a winger who is expected to put the puck into the net
Komarov has apparently started to think of himself as a skill player. He has the ability of be a good 3rd line PK specialist/pest even in the NHL, but as shown by this tournament, he is not a skill guy and should not be allowed to pretend he is one. Erkka should have demoted him to the 3rd line and told him to use his strengths.
I don't know where the rumors I've read more than once in Jatkoaika came from but I certainly hope it's not true that Kontiola and Lehterä have somehow insisted on playing together. That kind of demands should not be allowed, they eat away the coach's authority.
When a team looks as defeated, disinterested and undisciplined as this one, you really start to think they could have used a better leader as well and not just a different coach. Sorry OJ. Unfortunately we don't have many players under the age of 40 with intangibles worth mentioning.
I don't know where the rumors I've read more than once in Jatkoaika came from but I certainly hope it's not true that Kontiola and Lehterä have somehow insisted on playing together. That kind of demands should not be allowed, they eat away the coach's authority.
When a team looks as defeated, disinterested and undisciplined as this one, you really start to think they could have used a better leader as well and not just a different coach. Sorry OJ. Unfortunately we don't have many players under the age of 40 with intangibles worth mentioning.
I'm late to the party, but I'm going say it again: most heartless team Finland I've ever witnessed. I have absolutely nothing positive to say about this team. We don't deserve to advance to the quarters.
Sums up my thoughts about Komarov.
Sums up my thoughts about Komarov.
Thrashing the players is useless. Especially when most of them have not been bad - and those that have have clearly played at the brink of their skills. Bad rolings affect things as well. For example, Komarov and Pakarinen are great as energy players but it should be pretty clear that they've got no business in top-six.
The management, however, deserves a full thrashing. They made many questionable picks that backfired, got too cute, scouted lazily and thought the group they have at hand will do, etcetera.
Though I don't wish to hammer on Erkka for setting up the game plan or prepping the team, he is actually pretty good at that as Sochi proved us, but his team building skills have always been subpar. He made plenty questionable picks and played it too conservatively even the last time he was around. I was hoping that he would be forced to approach things from a new angle because most of his old familiars are gone, but instead he actually dug up those still playing, no matter how washed out, and simply exploited all the work J.Jalonen did for the rest. When destiny forced his hand and he actually had to pick some fresh names, he went full-blown, tea-party conservative and took ones that are only good for protecting your own net, not crashing the opponent's.
Johno
Deserved it Tour - the sloppy seconds
- Oct 30, 2013
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This nice little Skoda Cup just solidifies my dislike for Erkka as the HC. Sure he "coached" us to two Olympic medals, but they were more about the players than any of his coaching. They had skill to finish games, nothing to do with Erkka's playing system. This year we see where his playing system leads us, because having 15 rookies will allow you to implement the system you want. The results, magnificent!
Hopefully we never again see him behind the bench (unless he is the waterbottle boy). I'd rather have Tami "aurinkokuningas" Tamminen as the coach. He'd have the brains to pick the best players available.
Anyway, can't wait for the 2018 Olys, when our new young generation is hitting their primes! Barkov, Granlunds, Armia, Pulkkinen, Vatanen, Määttä, Ristolainen, P. Laine, Puljujärvi etc! #KultaaKoreasta
Hopefully we never again see him behind the bench (unless he is the waterbottle boy). I'd rather have Tami "aurinkokuningas" Tamminen as the coach. He'd have the brains to pick the best players available.
Anyway, can't wait for the 2018 Olys, when our new young generation is hitting their primes! Barkov, Granlunds, Armia, Pulkkinen, Vatanen, Määttä, Ristolainen, P. Laine, Puljujärvi etc! #KultaaKoreasta
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