WC: General Talk '14 — Canada

[roto]

No point you make is going to make me believe that the Olympics and the WC are the same.

If you don't understand basic mathematics it's not my fault. It's not a question of believing either.

 

[Lalonde]

Especially when it is held in Minsk!

What's wrong with Minsk? Great city, if you ask me.

As per Canadian Olympics champs in the WC... You know, it'd be even better for Hockey Canada to not have any of them in the roster. I mean, they all will be emotionally exhausted and tired after this hard mix of NHL regular season and OG. So, they may not enough passion and pleasure to play in the WC.
So, it would be acceptable to make a team mainly of young guys like Monahan , Scheifele and the Oilers' gang. They had a break during Olympics , they likely won't play in SC (at least, two Alberta teams) , so why not to play in Europe for Team Canada? They'll have an interest and a desire and they have something to prove...

Anyway, to have OG and WC in the same year... Nonsense. It really cheapens the tournament. Generally, IMO, it'd be better to play one WC in two years.

 

[Stats01]

If you don't understand basic mathematics it's not my fault. It's not a question of believing either.

I think we're arguing two different points. I get WHY the IIHF has it and the whole ranking system I understand that, I just think it's stupid to have it in an Olympic year. I'm not against having the tournament, I just think it's extremely foolish to have two tournaments in one year. Like I've been saying, we just had the true WC IMO, there is no need to have another tournament when the best one was just played. it's overkill. The WC should step back in an Olympic year, and come back the year after. Having the WC in an Olympic year just cheapens everything. I just don't see the point in having the tournament after the Olympics just proved who the best country is.

When I think World Championship, I think best on best, well if the Olympics are best on best, then wtf is the WC representing in 2014? I'll you one thing it isn't representing the best a country can offer.

Also for any European poster who feels offended by me making my points on this year's tournament..I get it..you guys love this tournament I just prefer Olympics. I think it's better quality, I think it's a better indicator of who the best team/country is. We all have different opinions and that's the beauty of discussing topics like this.

Sweden/Russia/Finland, can win all the WC's they want, I would take Olympic gold over a WC every time. Canada has won 3 out of the past 4 Olympics, to me that speaks for itself.

 

[JackSlater]

I think subban would go. Im sure he understand now the way team canada works... if the habs are eliminated im sure he would like to step up and continue raising his international reputation for the next olympics. But maybe im wrong.

I agree that Subban would go. He barely played in the Olympics, and he just seems to be a guy that loves hockey. He is one of the guys who flew over to the WC a few years ago as soon as his team was eliminated in the playoffs, though he only got to play one game. I think things like that make a difference in the eyes of HC.

 

[roto]

Stats01: Maybe you have understood it a bit wrong. I guess nobody loves WHC preferring it over Olympics. Everyone prefers Olympics over WHC. I don't have anything against not having WHC during Olympic year. I don't also have anything against having the tournament also this year. It's a fun tournament to watch.

I don't care how it affects some rankings because the art of yearly WHC is that it has good sample size and sample rate. It means that top countries are top countries also in the ranking and the balance in tournaments (seeding) is good enough.

Using this year's Olympic results as basis for next Olympics:

Groups:
A: Canada, Switzerland, Czech, x
B: Sweden, Russia, Slovenia, x
C: Finland, USA, x, x

With current IIHF ranking:
A: Sweden, USA, Switzerland, x
B: Finland, Czech, Slovakia, x
c: Canada, Russia, x, x

Yes, different kind of groups, but still balanced enough.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Benn and Seguin would both be welcome additions, I would imagine.....only caveat is that I'm still hoping the Stars taste some postseason action this year, as well as the fact that it's already going to be a long season for Benn and he might choose to relax in the offseason anyways.

 

[JackSlater]

Benn and Seguin would both be welcome additions, I would imagine.....only caveat is that I'm still hoping the Stars taste some postseason action this year, as well as the fact that it's already going to be a long season for Benn and he might choose to relax in the offseason anyways.

It would be nice to see Seguin in an IIHF tournament for Canada.

 

[McGlassbangers]

Taylor Hall - Eric Staal - Jordan Eberle
Andrew Ladd - Kyle Turris - Nathan Horton
Jeff Skinner - Ryan Johansen - Joel Ward
Clarke MacArthur - Bryan Little - Troy Brouwer
(Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Evander Kane)

Karl Alzner - Mike Green
Jay Garrison - Kevin Bieksa
Mark Giordano - Travis Hamonic
Marc Methot - Justin Schultz
(Ryan Murray)

Braden Holtby (Ben Scrivens)

 

[leafsfuture]

It would be nice to see Seguin in an IIHF tournament for Canada.

Agreed.

Crazy he has never played an official IIHF event. At the U-17s and Ivan Hlinka he was generally the go to guy for Ontario / Canada.

Also looking forward to see guys like Johansen (who was brilliant at the WJC as an 18 year old), Ryan Murray, possibly Jonathan Huberdeau, along with the "regulars" Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Staal.

Dont expect Spezza to go. I believe either last year or the year before, he specifically asked to play for Canada, and they refused, even though there was a roster spot because they wanted to save it for later playoff rounds ending

 

[1Gold Standard]

Agreed.

Crazy he has never played an official IIHF event. At the U-17s and Ivan Hlinka he was generally the go to guy for Ontario / Canada.

Also looking forward to see guys like Johansen (who was brilliant at the WJC as an 18 year old), Ryan Murray, possibly Jonathan Huberdeau, along with the "regulars" Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Staal.

Dont expect Spezza to go. I believe either last year or the year before, he specifically asked to play for Canada, and they refused, even though there was a roster spot because they wanted to save it for later playoff rounds ending

While I would appreciate having a big veteran center like E. Staal to play this year, but after what he went through last year, injury, operation, rehab and then subsequently not being selected to the Olympic team, I think he'll be inclined to take a full summer off this year. I can't say that I would blame him...

I do want Seguin to go though.

 

[JackSlater]

Agreed.

Crazy he has never played an official IIHF event. At the U-17s and Ivan Hlinka he was generally the go to guy for Ontario / Canada.

Also looking forward to see guys like Johansen (who was brilliant at the WJC as an 18 year old), Ryan Murray, possibly Jonathan Huberdeau, along with the "regulars" Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Staal.

Dont expect Spezza to go. I believe either last year or the year before, he specifically asked to play for Canada, and they refused, even though there was a roster spot because they wanted to save it for later playoff rounds ending

Seguin even played at the Spengler, so he's represented Canada in pretty much every non-IIHF way possible. Dallas would be a big elimination for Canada. I would imagine Seguin goes, and I would guess that Benn would go too. I also look forward to seeing what Johansen could do. The problem for Canada in recent years has been defencemen, not forwards. The forwards have consistently been more than strong enough to win. When it comes to defencemen though, the best Canadians tend to be making playoff runs. Canada has been averaging maybe one of the country's top defencemen per tournament, and Canada's depth at defence is not as strong as it is at forward.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

Honestly i think its better for Hockey Canada to leave out Olympic players, get young players instead it would be a great development tool for younger players and preparation for 2018 winter Olympics. Holding two international sanctioned tournaments in the same year(IIHF WC and Olympics) is just stupid.

Using updated standings (As of Today)

Forwards
Adam Henrique
Eric Stall
Jordon Stall
Jeff Skinner
Johnathan Hubderdeau
Ryan Johannson
Nathan Horton
Kyle Turris
Sean Monahan
Evander Kane
Andrew Ladd
mark scheifele
Alex Burrows

Defense ( I dont really care about left or right handed)
Ryan Murray
Mark Giordano
Karl Alzner
Tyler Myers
Michael Del Zotto
Cody Ceci
Jason Garrison

Goalies
Cam Ward (if hes healthy)
Kevin Poulin
Braden Holtby

 

[garbageteam]

Canada's "C" team vs other countries' "B" teams (and a couple of others' "A" teams). World Championships is a misnomer, especially in an Olympic year. Just take it for what it is - some friendlies against countries we don't normally play against. Whether it's the Olympics, WJC or WC I love seeing Team Canada win and prove that they actually have the depth their fans claim to have.

 

[Stats01]

Agreed.

Crazy he has never played an official IIHF event. At the U-17s and Ivan Hlinka he was generally the go to guy for Ontario / Canada.

Also looking forward to see guys like Johansen (who was brilliant at the WJC as an 18 year old), Ryan Murray, possibly Jonathan Huberdeau, along with the "regulars" Skinner, Hall, Eberle, Staal.

Dont expect Spezza to go. I believe either last year or the year before, he specifically asked to play for Canada, and they refused, even though there was a roster spot because they wanted to save it for later playoff rounds ending

I don't blame him. It's a two way street. He asked to go and they said no, if that were me I'd tell them ok then don't bother asking me again.

 

[Stats01]

Taylor Hall - Eric Staal - Jordan Eberle
Andrew Ladd - Kyle Turris - Nathan Horton
Jeff Skinner - Ryan Johansen - Joel Ward
Clarke MacArthur - Bryan Little - Troy Brouwer
(Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Evander Kane)

Karl Alzner - Mike Green
Jay Garrison - Kevin Bieksa
Mark Giordano - Travis Hamonic
Marc Methot - Justin Schultz
(Ryan Murray)

Braden Holtby (Ben Scrivens)

That's like a C team for us and we'd still be favoured in the tournament HAHA

 

[TonsofPuppies*]

That's like a C team for us and we'd still be favoured in the tournament HAHA

Considering Canada hasn't won this tournament in 7 years, I don't think they're a favourite at all. Based on the projected available players, this is going to be another ugly WHC for Hockey Canada.

 

[JackSlater]

I like this tournament as a place for young Canadian players to get experience. Even though Canada has not won this tournament since 2007, guys like Doughty, Pietrangelo, Tavares and Duchene all had opportunities to play big roles for Canada from 2008 - onward before they ever played in the Olympics. Vlasic and Benn debuted for Canada at this level. Winning is preferable, but getting reps for the Taylor Hall types is the main purpose of this tournament, from my perspective anyway.

 

[TonsofPuppies*]

I like this tournament as a place for young Canadian players to get experience. Even though Canada has not won this tournament since 2007, guys like Doughty, Pietrangelo, Tavares and Duchene all had opportunities to play big roles for Canada from 2008 - onward before they ever played in the Olympics. Vlasic and Benn debuted for Canada at this level. Winning is preferable, but getting reps for the Taylor Hall types is the main purpose of this tournament, from my perspective anyway.

Except NHL participation is highly unlikely in the next olympics. They have nothing to prep for anymore.

 

[JackSlater]

Except NHL participation is highly unlikely in the next olympics. They have nothing to prep for anymore.

Should that turn out true, the WC loses any value outside of the odd entertaining game.

 

[getwiththeprogram*]

Except NHL participation is highly unlikely in the next olympics. They have nothing to prep for anymore.

They need to have NHL participation at the next Olympics. If Canada wins again (and we have as good a shot as anyone), that will be 4 out of 6 and it will bury for all time the notion of which nation is the pre-eminent hockey nation.

Sadly, I think they'll be pulling out of the Olympics and going to a world cup - which will be a step backwards.

The Euros, who can't win these things, will get away with disparaging it in a way they can't an Olympic hockey event. Remember how they disparaged the old Canada Cup while conveniently turning a blind eye to Soviet sleight-of-hand vis-à-vis player eligibility for the worlds and Olympics? They'll use the garbage rationale that it's an NHL-sponsored "North American" event to create a built-in excuse when they fall short.

That's why I much prefer the Olympics. It's harder to explain away a Canadian victory at the Olympics when the whole world (not just the hockey world) is watching.

 

[Rob]

Based on the teams that are out of the playoff picture right now I would pick Scrivens and Smith. Scrivens has been great this year and Smith did well on the big ice last year. Of course being at the Olympics already I'm not sure if he would accept the invite.

 

[An Argument For]

They need to have NHL participation at the next Olympics. If Canada wins again (and we have a better shot than anyone), that will be 4 out of 6 and it will bury for all time the notion of which nation is the pre-eminent hockey nation.

Sadly, I think they'll be pulling out of the Olympics and going to a world cup - which will be a step backwards.

The Euros, who can't win these things, will get away with disparaging it in a way they can't an Olympic hockey event. Remember how they disparaged the old Canada Cup while conveniently turning a blind eye to Soviet sleight-of-hand vis-à-vis player eligibility for the worlds and Olympics? They'll use the garbage rationale that it's an NHL-sponsored "North American" event to create a built-in excuse when they fall short.

That's why I much prefer the Olympics. It's harder to explain away a Canadian victory at the Olympics when the whole world (not just the hockey world) is watching.

They can marginalize it however they like but we will be able to tell by the quality of the rosters just how good the teams playing really are. The last World Cup had amazing rosters, imo the best Finnish Team ever.

 

[leafsfuture]

I don't blame him. It's a two way street. He asked to go and they said no, if that were me I'd tell them ok then don't bother asking me again.

I dont like Spezza, but yeah I agree with you.

It was pretty gutless considering Spezza isnt some scrub, and usually the Worlds is a thing where you generally get as many high scorers as you can + some young players, but they simply wanted no part of Spezza

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

So who's the favorite to coach Canada? Kevin Dineen?

 

[IcemanTBI]

So, with Luongo in Florida now, and obviously not going to be in the playoffs, any chance he will join the team? Seen as he only played one game in the Olympics, he might be interested.