Prospect Info: General Discussion of Prospects

[Jacob582]

Wouldn't the CHL have to agree to this as well as the NHLPA?

Yes, I would think they would need to ammend the NHL-CHL transfer agreement.

 

[toddkaz]

Not sure the best thread to throw this in:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848356660462391489

Would be a gamechanger for some guys.

Funny I just said that a few days ago in another thread. Give the CHL Team some cash which most probably could use buying the rights of the player from them.

Its a win-win.

 

[Jim Bob]

Funny I just said that a few days ago in another thread. Give the CHL Team some cash which most probably could use buying the rights of the player from them.

Its a win-win.

The weird thing is that this is not just a CBA thing, it is an NHL-CHL transfer agreement thing.

I wonder if they will update the transfer agreement to give teams cash for every season of eligibility teams lose. Even for guys like Benson and Bedard that make the jump straight to the NHL.

 

[toddkaz]

The weird thing is that this is not just a CBA thing, it is an NHL-CHL transfer agreement thing.

I wonder if they will update the transfer agreement to give teams cash for every season of eligibility teams lose. Even for guys like Benson and Bedard that make the jump straight to the NHL.

If you think about it Benson would benefit a season in the AHL but he can't. Yet his WHL team gets nothing. So its a win-win to give the WHL team cash and let him play in the AHL. In the end it could be million(s) of dollars over 5-10 years for the CHL team from multiple teams for players.

It also means the money has a possibility to trickle down to other areas of the CHL team depending on how it can be used such as improved facilities.

 

[Matt Ress]

It's going to look odd. I think the NCAA is going to be accepting CHL players so you could have a situation where if the kid decides to go to college, the CHL team gets nothing but if they decide to go AHL, the team gets paid. They'll be fighting to phase each other out (NCAA vs. AHL) and it will be interesting to see how things evolve.

Well the AHL isn't going anywhere so it's probably more like the NHL and CHL trying to phase out the NCAA route.

 

[Jim Bob]

It's going to look odd. I think the NCAA is going to be accepting CHL players so you could have a situation where if the kid decides to go to college, the CHL team gets nothing but if they decide to go AHL, the team gets paid. They'll be fighting to phase each other out (NCAA vs. AHL) and it will be interesting to see how things evolve.

Well the AHL isn't going anywhere so it's probably more like the NHL and CHL trying to phase out the NCAA route.

That is never going to happen.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

It's going to look odd. I think the NCAA is going to be accepting CHL players so you could have a situation where if the kid decides to go to college, the CHL team gets nothing but if they decide to go AHL, the team gets paid. They'll be fighting to phase each other out (NCAA vs. AHL) and it will be interesting to see how things evolve.

Well the AHL isn't going anywhere so it's probably more like the NHL and CHL trying to phase out the NCAA route.

How will allowing CHL players into NCAA phase out that route?

 

[Matt Ress]

How will allowing CHL players into NCAA phase out that route?

It won't. Allowing CHL players into the AHL at a younger age will lessen the likelihood of kids taking the college route.

As I fasten my tinfoil hat, the NHL would probably want to boost the CHL as more and more kids look to the NCAA as apposed to the CHL. The ability to earn money in college just sweetens that move. The same can be said for young foreign players and more and more Canadian players. Having to not spend an extra year in the CHL for a talented player is less of a deterrent to go that route.

That is never going to happen.

I probably used too strong of terms but you have to realize that the NCAA and CHL/AHL are vying and posturing for good young players.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

It won't. Allowing CHL players into the AHL at a younger age will lessen the likelihood of kids taking the college route.

As I fasten my tinfoil hat, the NHL would probably want to boost the CHL as more and more kids look to the NCAA as apposed to the CHL. The ability to earn money in college just sweetens that move. The same can be said for young foreign players and more and more Canadian players. Having to not spend an extra year in the CHL for a talented player is less of a deterrent to go that route.


I probably used too strong of terms but you have to realize that the NCAA and CHL/AHL are vying and posturing for good young players.

Why would the NHL want them in the CHL instead of the NCAA?

 

[Tatanka]

It won't. Allowing CHL players into the AHL at a younger age will lessen the likelihood of kids taking the college route.

As I fasten my tinfoil hat, the NHL would probably want to boost the CHL as more and more kids look to the NCAA as apposed to the CHL. The ability to earn money in college just sweetens that move. The same can be said for young foreign players and more and more Canadian players. Having to not spend an extra year in the CHL for a talented player is less of a deterrent to go that route.


I probably used too strong of terms but you have to realize that the NCAA and CHL/AHL are vying and posturing for good young players.

The players won't be paid enough to phase out the ncaa option. It will always be viable.

 

[Matt Ress]

The players won't be paid enough to phase out the ncaa option. It will always be viable.

I don't really think so either. It's more of an interesting situation where I believe the NHL will encourage the AHL/CHL but college will be the more enthusiastic route

 

[Jim Bob]

I probably used too strong of terms but you have to realize that the NCAA and CHL/AHL are vying and posturing for good young players.

The thing is that the NCAA is looking at a different crop of athletes by and large than the CHL and AHL are.

The NCAA is the place for late bloomers where the CHL and AHL are the places for early bloomers.

 

[Matt Ress]

The thing is that the NCAA is looking at a different crop of athletes by and large than the CHL and AHL are.

The NCAA is the place for late bloomers where the CHL and AHL is the place for early bloomers.

Maybe 10 years ago but we see that trend changing. Less and less American kids go to the CHL and we see more Canadian and foreign kids going to college. Good, young top tier talent. It's not just for the undrafted players looking to make a name anymore.

There's an uncapped amount of money to be made and I think the experience is a draw as well. Obviously the CHL and probably Hockey Canada in general don't want to see players in a different league.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The thing is that the NCAA is looking at a different crop of athletes by and large than the CHL and AHL are.

The NCAA is the place for late bloomers where the CHL and AHL are the places for early bloomers.

IMO The NCAA would love those marquee early bloomers too. They just can't compete with the CHL at the moment.

Boston College would have gladly taken McDavid. Unfortunately for them he'd been getting paid in the CHL for a few years.

 

[Jim Bob]

IMO The NCAA would love those marquee early bloomers too. They just can't compete with the CHL at the moment.

Boston College would have gladly taken McDavid. Unfortunately for them he'd been getting paid in the CHL for a few years.

The NCAA does OK on that front with the NDTP to NCAA pathway being strong.

For instance, the top 2 picks in the 2024 Draft were NCAA guys and you need to go back to the 2016 Draft to find one where a top 5 pick didn't play in the NCAA.

 

[Jim Bob]

Maybe 10 years ago but we see that trend changing. Less and less American kids go to the CHL and we see more Canadian and foreign kids going to college. Good, young top tier talent. It's not just for the undrafted players looking to make a name anymore.

There's an uncapped amount of money to be made and I think the experience is a draw as well. Obviously the CHL and probably Hockey Canada in general don't want to see players in a different league.

You still see the bulk of NCAA players playing at least a year or two of JR A before starting college. Given the age restrictions in the CHL, that is not an option.

 

[Matt Ress]

You still see the bulk of NCAA players playing at least a year or two of JR A before starting college. Given the age restrictions in the CHL, that is not an option.

What's not an option

 

[Jim Bob]

What's not an option

Players rarely start playing in the CHL at 20 or 21 like many NCAA freshman are due to the age restrictions in the CHL.

If you look at the average age of an NCAA D1 roster and a CHL roster, you will see that NCAA rosters are a few years older on average. And that is because of the rules differences between the CHL and the NCAA.

RIT's roster is a great example of that. They have 7 First Years on their roster. 5 are 21yo and 2 are 20yo (and one of the 20yos is a '23 birthyear who turns 21 in December).

 

[Matt Ress]

Players rarely start playing in the CHL at 20 or 21 like many NCAA freshman are due to the age restrictions in the CHL.

If you look at the average age of an NCAA D1 roster and a CHL roster, you will see that NCAA rosters are a few years older on average. And that is because of the rules differences between the CHL and the NCAA.

RIT's roster is a great example of that. They have 7 First Years on their roster. 5 are 21yo and 2 are 20yo (and one of the 20yos is a '23 birthyear who turns 21 in December).

Yeah obviously. The conversation is from the proposed idea of allowing drafted 18 year olds from the CHL to the AHL. And how they are trying to compete with players going into the NCAA. Not just CHL v. NCAA. My thought was about the CHL/AHL v. NCAA paths. Of course there are a few non-CHL routes before college but it doesn't sound like that's what you're referring to.

Of course there tends to be older players in college but more importantly here, there's a shift from the Canadian path (if you will) to the NCAA paths with a lot of high end prospects and not just Americans.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Won't this just serve to collapse Jr A into CHL? There will be virtually no incentive to play Jr. A any longer if you could be a marginal or even replacement level CHL player. Participating in Jr. A won't even help you get into an NCAA program later if you're below CHL level because they'll just recruit the major junior players.

Maybe it'll be good in that it will de-professionalize what should be competitive (yet amateur) youth hockey, but it'll probably just wipe out the lower tier leagues.

 

[joshjull]

IMO The NCAA would love those marquee early bloomers too. They just can't compete with the CHL at the moment.

Boston College would have gladly taken McDavid. Unfortunately for them he'd been getting paid in the CHL for a few years.

I’m curious how many of those CHL studs would be the right age pre-draft to play in college (like Eichel was).

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I’m curious how many of those CHL studs would be the right age pre-draft to play in college (like Eichel was).

Probably not a ton of them. The bigger effect is how the NCAA will be able to round out their rosters with ex CHL players instead of ex Jr A players.

 

[Chainshot]

Probably not a ton of them. The bigger effect is how the NCAA will be able to round out their rosters with ex CHL players instead of ex Jr A players.

I’m curious to see how that breaks. Do the powerful teams appeal most, or is it the schools that are built on older guys already. Or will it shake out somewhere in between?

Also will CHLers give more shrift to their schooling so they academically can clear the (often low) bar to get into an NCAA program and not be academically ineligible quickly. Anecdotes abound regarding the lack of regard for schooling among many CHLers.

 

[Matt Ress]

I’m curious how many of those CHL studs would be the right age pre-draft to play in college (like Eichel was).

Definitely not a ton but we may start to see overagers move to the NCAA from the CHL which is everyone that gets drafted from the CHL that doesn't make their NHL team out of camp. I may not have been being clear but I believe those players will be sought after by the colleges and probably soon the AHL.

It's their move to bring in those developing players perhaps from the CHL but also the NCAA.

And my point was that they are more likely vying for the kids leaning towards a college path rather than stealing kids from the CHL although that new rule may do both.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I’m curious to see how that breaks. Do the powerful teams appeal most, or is it the schools that are built on older guys already. Or will it shake out somewhere in between?

Also will CHLers give more shrift to their schooling so they academically can clear the (often low) bar to get into an NCAA program and not be academically ineligible quickly. Anecdotes abound regarding the lack of regard for schooling among many CHLers.

Well it'll be a mix right? Players will probably gravitate towards the strongest program they can qualify for.

I'd imagine we'll see almost all of the overager stars who don't get drafted land in a D1 squad somewhere. It will weed out some of the shorsey types who just want to live the junior dream and not study, especially for the higher end ECAC schools.

I wonder if this will hurt some of the euro developmental leagues. If the medium prospects have more incentive to travel to NA and get a college education.

There's a lot of 'developmental' hockey. Perhaps too much for the quasi public enterprise leagues they've created, and not nearly enough recreational hockey. My dream would be for this to allow 12-15 year old kids to play for fun again.