General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

[Raccoon Jesus]

How many posts here have blamed the lack of leadership from Trump? Why are my posts blaming the lack of leadership from Democratic governors and mayors deleted?

I'm going to do this once publicly for you since you seem to just be trying to round up a posse--

Your posts weren't hammering democratic leadership actions in specific to COVID-19 and surrounding circumstances. They were rife with "damn lefties" and "typical liberal" rhetoric. As such, they get deleted.

Other people in this thread have been able to criticize Newsom and other Democratic authority figures et. al. without attacking all their fellow posters/sweeping generalizing. Everyone else has been able to figure out how to debate civilly. Until you can make the point without the "Entire group is ____," your posts won't stick. And yes, that goes for everyone, and every group.

In other words, see the mod warning posted at the top of literally every page of this thread by @kingsboy11

Look, I've gained a new appreciation and respect for a lot of other posters and views via this whole discussion. I'm hopeful it will be that way for everyone. That doesn't mean it's easy. But one thing we can easily avoid is shittalking identity groups.

 

[BamBam1031]

Again. You are applying a moral compass to constitutional rights. You agree with one group more than another so you think one should have more rights, that is not how the constitution works. You can't legally tell one group "Your cause is more just in my eyes so you can go out" and tell another group "Your cause isn't as just you will be arrested if you do" , and you especially don't do it after telling people for months how important it is to stay home.

You seem to think I am not taking their protest seriously, I am, but even if I wasn't I am still going to say that they should have the right to protest. Just as the people had the right in Lansing.

It's frightening how much COVID-19 has exposed the tenuous hold the Constitution has these days. Obviously, liberal Governors have over-stepped and put conditions on people's unalienable rights under color of emergency powers, exercising those powers selectively as per their politics (as you correctly noted). Now, even SCOTUS has penned opinions stating Constitutional rights only apply during fair weather. There is a very real and deepening divide between those that believe what America once stood for and those that want "social" something.

 

[Master Yoda]

There's a difference between what should be and what is. I started by saying I don't condone the behavior right now, that is what "should be", but the reality is they are out there and I can understand why. This is a breakdown of the contract of society, so of course they're not doing what they should be doing according to standing rules/laws. The problem is what do you do about it? Arrest thousands of people? We don't have the means. Start shooting? That would end very badly for everyone.

I can understand why people are out there protesting right now. I also understand why people were out there a couple of weeks ago to protest the business closings.
I don't understand why those people thought it was necessary to bring guns to the protests. And I don't understand why people think it's okay to block highways to protest.

I'm not blaming protesters for the idiots who are inciting the riots.
But one of these protests went without much fuss and another is leading to violence.
Strange that the one that ended without the violence was the one where people were carrying guns.

 

[Maynard]

I'm with you here now.

And this happened in San Bernardino last night, as well. The entire force was downtown while the north end started having the real criminals trying to get to homes. I had a few friends on their roofs with rifles. Crazy shit.

Im a left leaning centrist type, but I do own a handgun just in case the shit gets REALLY crazy. It’s comforting to have it, but I don’t make it my ‘everything’ and I don’t understand people that get nuts with it and make it a huge part of their lives. It’s just an amendment, get a life ya know?

 

[Bandit]

I can understand why people are out there protesting right now. I also understand why people were out there a couple of weeks ago to protest the business closings.
I don't understand why those people thought it was necessary to bring guns to the protests. And I don't understand why people think it's okay to block highways to protest.

I'm not blaming protesters for the idiots who are inciting the riots.
But one of these protests went without much fuss and another is leading to violence.
Strange that the one that ended without the violence was the one where people were carrying guns.

There's another factor you're not considering.

 

[BamBam1031]

I'm going to do this once publicly for you since you seem to just be trying to round up a posse--

Your posts weren't hammering democratic leadership actions in specific to COVID-19 and surrounding circumstances. They were rife with "damn lefties" and "typical liberal" rhetoric. As such, they get deleted.

Other people in this thread have been able to criticize Newsom and other Democratic authority figures et. al. without attacking all their fellow posters/sweeping generalizing. Everyone else has been able to figure out how to debate civilly. Until you can make the point without the "Entire group is ____," your posts won't stick. And yes, that goes for everyone, and every group.

In other words, see the mod warning posted at the top of literally every page of this thread by @kingsboy11

Look, I've gained a new appreciation and respect for a lot of other posters and views via this whole discussion. I'm hopeful it will be that way for everyone. That doesn't mean it's easy. But one thing we can easily avoid is shittalking identity groups.

Then I think your reading comprehension is tainted by your politics, just as your interpretation of Obama's words shows your bias toward absolving protestors.

I will say again, the looting and rioting is taking place in almost 100% cities controlled by DEMOCRATIC mayors. It's their jobs to protect their shops and citizens. Complete lack of leadership. The looting and rioting is a direct result of overzealous DEMOCRATIC governors randomly enforcing financially ruinous lockdowns. Where is the demand for accountability here?

 

[bland]

It's frightening how much COVID-19 has exposed the tenuous hold the Constitution has these days. Obviously, liberal Governors have over-stepped and put conditions on people's unalienable rights under color of emergency powers, exercising those powers selectively as per their politics (as you correctly noted). Now, even SCOTUS has penned opinions stating Constitutional rights only apply during fair weather. There is a very real and deepening divide between those that believe what America once stood for and those that want "social" something.

The chicken littles clutching their pearls is about the only levity to be found in these times.

You want freedom without responsibility. The most significant difference between the right and the left is empathy. Those on the right, in general, believe that liberty applies to "me", and those on the left believe it applies to "us".

Health is an "us" issue, as your individual actions do not only have consequences for you, but for everyone you encounter.

Civil rights are an "us" problem to solve to ensure that everybody has the same rights guaranteed under our constitution.

Compromise is "us" coming together to discuss these issues and determine the best path to follow for all of "us", not just the individuals affected.

Compromise is frankly not found in the modern conservative handbook. THAT is the divide in our country - a lack of empathy dictated by folks who only care about themselves wanting to govern a nation that requires compromise and an "us" mentality to be successful.

 

[BamBam1031]

No, Obama criticized the rioters--the ones causing violence, not peaceful demonstrators--and stated it's a combination of protest and politics that will bring about change.

And with respect to both the thread and the original point, the protesters are generally operating with masks, the same safety standards others are being held to in public.

And the social distancing? Hmm.

 

[HeadInjury]

Just a heads up, if you are serious do it soon besides the 10 days waiting periodm there is a serious back log of orders and the 10 day period begins once the store receives the gun from the manufacturer. So you are realistically looking at close to a month. that may get longer with the riots and looting

your best bet for home defense is a shotgun. If you go the pistol route, get a revolver over a a jammie. If you do have any questions, feel free to PM me

Thanks. I would definitely go with a long gun of some sorts. I'm not concerned about a waiting period, as I'm not particularly concerned about the present unrest coming to my doorstep. I'm thinking more down the line somewhere, since we seem to be raising a lot of idiots who are going to think violence is a proper form of political protest.

 

[Master Yoda]

There's another factor you're not considering.

which is?

 

[BamBam1031]

The chicken littles clutching their pearls is about the only levity to be found in these times.

You want freedom without responsibility. The most significant difference between the right and the left is empathy. Those on the right, in general, believe that liberty applies to "me", and those on the left believe it applies to "us".

Health is an "us" issue, as your individual actions do not only have consequences for you, but for everyone you encounter.

Civil rights are an "us" problem to solve to ensure that everybody has the same rights guaranteed under our constitution.

Compromise is "us" coming together to discuss these issues and determine the best path to follow for all of "us", not just the individuals affected.

Compromise is frankly not found in the modern conservative handbook. THAT is the divide in our country - a lack of empathy dictated by folks who only care about themselves wanting to govern a nation that requires compromise and an "us" mentality to be successful.

False statement and false dichotomy. Of course freedom comes with responsibility. That's the good side of the coin on which we both agree. The bad side, the side that you do not understand, is where you can make rights contingent on something. That's where you give power to someone to decide when and where you can exercise your rights. IOW, the very opposite of "unalienable."

 

[Master Yoda]

The chicken littles clutching their pearls is about the only levity to be found in these times.

You want freedom without responsibility. The most significant difference between the right and the left is empathy. Those on the right, in general, believe that liberty applies to "me", and those on the left believe it applies to "us".

Health is an "us" issue, as your individual actions do not only have consequences for you, but for everyone you encounter.

Civil rights are an "us" problem to solve to ensure that everybody has the same rights guaranteed under our constitution.

Compromise is "us" coming together to discuss these issues and determine the best path to follow for all of "us", not just the individuals affected.

Compromise is frankly not found in the modern conservative handbook. THAT is the divide in our country - a lack of empathy dictated by folks who only care about themselves wanting to govern a nation that requires compromise and an "us" mentality to be successful.

Disagree. Both the left and the right, and the middle believe liberty applies to everyone. Not just certain groups but everyone.
Yes, there are bad apples on all sides and all parts of life, but in general everyone believes in equal rights.
People just have different interpretations of them.

 

[Lt Dan]

Thanks. I would definitely go with a long gun of some sorts. I'm not concerned about a waiting period, as I'm not particularly concerned about the present unrest coming to my doorstep. I'm thinking more down the line somewhere, since we seem to be raising a lot of idiots who are going to think violence is a proper form of political protest.

also don't forget crackheads plus opiod and meth addicts.

 

[Bandit]

which is?

Look at the photos from the event, it will come to you.

Disagree. Both the left and the right, and the middle believe liberty applies to everyone. Not just certain groups but everyone.
Yes, there are bad apples on all sides and all parts of life, but in general everyone believes in equal rights.
People just have different interpretations of them.

Edit: His delivery is funnier than reading it.

 

[BamBam1031]

Most people erroneously think the Bill of Rights gives us our rights to free speech, trial by jury, right to keep and bear arms, etc. It does not.

Your rights are inherent human rights (God-given, if that is your belief), and the BOR is a specific listing of those rights that the government is not supposed to f**k with. Had those rights been bestowed upon us by the government, that would imply the power to take away as well. Neither is the case.

People like you laugh at people like me who guard our collective rights vindictively. That is because people like you do not realize that rights, once relinquished, are almost never regained. And they are taken away from us one "reasonable and common sensical" cut at a time, until they are no more. How does one boil a frog, right? Anti-2A is the most obvious example, as any gun owner can tell you. Given recent events with COVID-19, however, the 1st Amendment is not far behind. Look at how Twitter/Google/Facebook/Youtube secretly censor conservative viewpoints.

Wherefore diversity if not diversity of thought?

 

[Master Yoda]

Look at the photos from the event, it will come to you.





Edit: His delivery is funnier than reading it.

Nope not getting it.

And agree about the joke. He's pretty good at telling jokes.
But there are bad pilots. And the problems are usually when they have to make decisions when things don't go as planned.
They can probably all land okay, but some are worse than others.
You said it yourself, that's the way it "should be", but the reality is they are out there.
And you can want to not have bad apples, but the fact is they exist.
All of us wanting it, doesn't make it go away.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Then I think your reading comprehension is tainted by your politics, just as your interpretation of Obama's words shows your bias toward absolving protestors.

I will say again, the looting and rioting is taking place in almost 100% cities controlled by DEMOCRATIC mayors. It's their jobs to protect their shops and citizens. Complete lack of leadership. The looting and rioting is a direct result of overzealous DEMOCRATIC governors randomly enforcing financially ruinous lockdowns. Where is the demand for accountability here?

There is nothing illegal about protesting. I don't need to absolve them of anything. It's a 1st Amendment right.

Attributing looting and rioting to COVID-19 lockdowns alone is completely ignorant.

Most people erroneously think the Bill of Rights gives us our rights to free speech, trial by jury, right to keep and bear arms, etc. It does not.

Your rights are inherent human rights (God-given, if that is your belief), and the BOR is a specific listing of those rights that the government is not supposed to f**k with. Had those rights been bestowed upon us by the government, that would imply the power to take away as well. Neither is the case.

People like you laugh at people like me who guard our collective rights vindictively. That is because people like you do not realize that rights, once relinquished, are almost never regained. And they are taken away from us one "reasonable and common sensical" cut at a time, until they are no more. How does one boil a frog, right? Anti-2A is the most obvious example, as any gun owner can tell you. Given recent events with COVID-19, however, the 1st Amendment is not far behind. Look at how Twitter/Google/Facebook/Youtube secretly censor conservative viewpoints.

Wherefore diversity if not diversity of thought?

See, this is where you keep going off the rails.

The "people like you," "people like me" stuff is otherism bullshit.

The irony about the rights lecture, of course, is that you're arguing above for them to be taken away when you can't draw the distinction between peaceful protesters and violent rioters.

COVID-19 lockdowns were and still are a delicate rights conversation because your rights affect others--ie your right to go out on the town and get drunk at a bar with a million other people is at odds with asymptomatic carriers; it's not your 'right' to go get everyone sick.

I can see that having a conversation that quarantines were considered 'constitutional' won't have an impact on you so I won't even go there, but it was alluded to above where the conflict seems to be with "my" individual rights vs. a collective "our" rights. What you are 'allowed' to do stops at the point it hurts someone else. Yes, there will be great diversity of thought on where that line is and as you can see from a lot of pages here we have been able to appreciate that. But you can guard your rights tightly without insulting everyone else that may have different thoughts. Especially when it comes down to issues surrounding a virus that we're sadly still trying to understand and deal with.

Edit: and if you want to cry "censorship" maybe you should stop writing utter bullshit like "Liberals follow the lead of their unelected social media overlords" and attacking people's viewpoints on things other than their merit. Not everyone follows the party talking points and I'm trying to give you the credit that you don't either.

 

[KINGS17]

This woman is a hero and a bad ass!! She gave a brick back to some white (supposedly antifa people) who had just handed bricks out to her son, and other young men who happened to be black. As I said in an earlier post, what is antifa's agenda?

 

[KINGS17]

The chicken littles clutching their pearls is about the only levity to be found in these times.

You want freedom without responsibility. The most significant difference between the right and the left is empathy. Those on the right, in general, believe that liberty applies to "me", and those on the left believe it applies to "us".

Health is an "us" issue, as your individual actions do not only have consequences for you, but for everyone you encounter.

Civil rights are an "us" problem to solve to ensure that everybody has the same rights guaranteed under our constitution.

Compromise is "us" coming together to discuss these issues and determine the best path to follow for all of "us", not just the individuals affected.

Compromise is frankly not found in the modern conservative handbook. THAT is the divide in our country - a lack of empathy dictated by folks who only care about themselves wanting to govern a nation that requires compromise and an "us" mentality to be successful.

Couldn't disagree with the bold portion more. I think almost all Americans are unified and have tremendous empathy for George Floyd and the members of his family. Every American I know and have had conversations with has empathy for the suffering of those infected with COVID-19. People do disagree on the best way to protect the most vulnerable, and the amount of damage being caused by the consequences of the continuation of stay at home orders.

I get what you are saying with the "us" issues comment, but the rights Americans have under The Constitution are individual rights, and are not subject to the whims and tyranny of the majority.

 

[Bandit]

Most people erroneously think the Bill of Rights gives us our rights to free speech, trial by jury, right to keep and bear arms, etc. It does not.

Your rights are inherent human rights (God-given, if that is your belief), and the BOR is a specific listing of those rights that the government is not supposed to f**k with. Had those rights been bestowed upon us by the government, that would imply the power to take away as well. Neither is the case.

Governments around the world take these things you're listing away from people on a daily basis. How can that be if they are "inherent human rights"? I'm sure you believe as many do, myself included, that certain rights SHOULD be a given to every human on the planet, but that's not reality. Even the forefathers of this country were full of shit on the topic. "All men are created equally... just don't mind these slaves over here. Or our women." It's only the codification of these beliefs into the constitution, BOR, laws etc. that make it a reality (allegedly) in this country. Without the law/scietal contract/whatever you want to call it, it's all just hot air.

People like you laugh at people like me who guard our collective rights vindictively. That is because people like you do not realize that rights, once relinquished, are almost never regained. And they are taken away from us one "reasonable and common sensical" cut at a time, until they are no more. How does one boil a frog, right? Anti-2A is the most obvious example, as any gun owner can tell you. Given recent events with COVID-19, however, the 1st Amendment is not far behind. Look at how Twitter/Google/Facebook/Youtube secretly censor conservative viewpoints.

Wherefore diversity if not diversity of thought?

"Congress shall make no law..."

Congress. Private companies are not bound by the 1st amendment any more than I am bound to allow some random nazi to stand on the roof of my house with a megaphone spouting his garbage because "free speech."

 

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

That is a horribly bad exaggeration afew days of protesting and looting do not equal a war...lol. You might want to take a couple of days off of the internet after an exaggeration that bad.

There have also been numerous pandemics during wars. ww1 was not the only war with a pandemic

Do you think that my calling this Civil War II is still asinine after hear what the president has just declared?

 

[Bandit]

Do you think that my calling this Civil War II is still asinine after hear what the president has just declared?

I'm almost afraid to ask...

 

[KINGS17]

Do you think that my calling this Civil War II is still asinine after hear what the president has just declared?

Yes, I think calling this Civil War II is ridiculous. President Trump indicated if local authorities continue to allow looting and rioting, he would deploy the military in the form of the national guard to enforce the law. He did so while reaffirming the rights of individuals to protest peacefully.

 

[KINGS17]

Congress. Private companies are not bound by the 1st amendment any more than I am bound to allow some random nazi to stand on the roof of my house with a megaphone spouting his garbage because "free speech."

No, but you must allow anyone with an opinion contradicting your own to stand in the public square and do it.

 

[Bandit]

No, but you must allow anyone with an opinion contradicting your own to stand in the public square and do it.

Absolutely, that is the point. Twitter/Google/Facebook/Youtube are not "the public square"