General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

[Lt Dan]

Bandit is right though; losing a business is not the same as someone dying. That starts to changes a bit after you've had to go into forclosure - your wife dies from cancer because she neglected her health because she was overwhelmed and depressed - your daughter starts prostituting after she meets a pimp at the sleazy motel youve had to move to ;gets her hooked on herion and then turns her out where she eventually gets into the wrong car and is murdered. Not the same.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm truly at a loss, from the first sentence on. George Floyd is dead, it's terrible what happened, we all agree. But the marching isn't bringing him back, and according to the medias critiques from last week it's literally human sacrifice to be out in public. If this virus as bad, deadly and dangerous as the media and the social media virtue signalers made it out to be then they should be getting the same exact treatment people got last weekend for going out or for opening up their businesses.

When you tell people that the risk is so severe that they can't open up their businesses then the risk should also be just as severe if you are marching down a street with thousands of people. Is that an incorrect statement? I'm legit confused about what you are trying to say, are you saying that you think the people protesting the murder of George Floyd have more of a right to be out interacting with people than someone does of running their business does? I'm confused

1. You don't have any right to tell an aggrieved group 'how' to protest. Just last week we had fully armed militias spitting in cops' faces and pushing them at state capitols. What was the exact treatment those folks got that needs to be passed on?

2. To the second paragraph--I think we've said more than a few times over the last few pages that we need to open up with safety standards. It's not quite a consensus, but you're arguing against a minority if you think there's still a massive 'you can't open your business' movement. To that point...

3. Re: the protests--I attended a couple over the weekend and I could count the number of unmasked people on two hands. I think that is mostly corroborated by the footage I saw elsewhere too (except in, like, Huntington Beach, where no one is wearing them anyway). Again, just last week we had marches on the state capitol, and a gigantic pool party in Missouri. I would suggest that peacefully protesting for civil rights falls above those in importance so forgive me but the sudden selective outrage over masks feels a bit empty.

You should. I sleep better at night knowing I am armed. I was like you, was not a gun guy but now am hooked.

People who called 911 in Minneapolis the first night were basically told they were on their own. Think about that for a second. Even in the best case scenario, the cops will be minutes away when you only have seconds between life and death.

I'm with you here now.

And this happened in San Bernardino last night, as well. The entire force was downtown while the north end started having the real criminals trying to get to homes. I had a few friends on their roofs with rifles. Crazy shit.

 

[BamBam1031]

Just a heads up, if you are serious do it soon besides the 10 days waiting periodm there is a serious back log of orders and the 10 day period begins once the store receives the gun from the manufacturer. So you are realistically looking at close to a month. that may get longer with the riots and looting

your best bet for home defense is a shotgun. If you go the pistol route, get a revolver over a a jammie. If you do have any questions, feel free to PM me

Oh, the irony, eh? Anti-2A citizens running afoul of their own anti-2A laws. Don't forget, the 10 day wait is more like 20 days with the CADOJ's unconstitutional slow-walking of everyone's 5 minute background checks.

Bandit is right though; losing a business is not the same as someone dying. That starts to changes a bit after you've had to go into forclosure - your wife dies from cancer because she neglected her health because she was overwhelmed and depressed - your daughter starts prostituting after she meets a pimp at the sleazy motel youve had to move to ;gets her hooked on herion and then turns her out where she eventually gets into the wrong car and is murdered. Not the same.

Deaths of despair. I referred to them in my deleted post: Coronavirus pandemic may lead to 75,000 "deaths of despair" from suicide, drug and alcohol abuse, study says - CBS News

 

[Herby]

Who said that we need a bigger government?

Who do you think is going to bring about all those changes you are talking about, especially the ending of the "vast socioeconomic" differences. You do realize that is only happening with legislation to greatly enlarge the size of the government with increased bureaucracy? You think the majority of people in the country who atleast live comfortable are going to just hand over all their money to the 10-15% that don't? It sucks that 10-15% of the population is very poor, but throughout history it's always been that way. Some wonderful people in the last century were influenced by some other wonderful people in the century before that and tried to create an egalitarian world, 100 million people lost their lives as it failed time and time again all over the world. Sorry I'll take a hard pass on trying it again this century.

MOD QDP

 

[Bandit]

I'm truly at a loss, from the first sentence on. George Floyd is dead, it's terrible what happened, we all agree. But the marching isn't bringing him back, and according to the medias critiques from last week it's literally human sacrifice to be out in public. If this virus as bad, deadly and dangerous as the media and the social media virtue signalers made it out to be then they should be getting the same exact treatment people got last weekend for going out or for opening up their businesses.

When you tell people that the risk is so severe that they can't open up their businesses then the risk should also be just as severe if you are marching down a street with thousands of people. Is that an incorrect statement? I'm legit confused about what you are trying to say, are you saying that you think the people protesting the murder of George Floyd have more of a right to be out interacting with people than someone does of running their business does? I'm confused

There's a difference between what should be and what is. I started by saying I don't condone the behavior right now, that is what "should be", but the reality is they are out there and I can understand why. This is a breakdown of the contract of society, so of course they're not doing what they should be doing according to standing rules/laws. The problem is what do you do about it? Arrest thousands of people? We don't have the means. Start shooting? That would end very badly for everyone.

 

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

I'm truly at a loss, from the first sentence on. George Floyd is dead, it's terrible what happened, we all agree. But the marching isn't bringing him back, and according to the medias critiques from last week it's literally human sacrifice to be out in public. If this virus as bad, deadly and dangerous as the media and the social media virtue signalers made it out to be then they should be getting the same exact treatment people got last weekend for going out or for opening up their businesses.

When you tell people that the risk is so severe that they can't open up their businesses then the risk should also be just as severe if you are marching down a street with thousands of people. Is that an incorrect statement? I'm legit confused about what you are trying to say, are you saying that you think the people protesting the murder of George Floyd have more of a right to be out interacting with people than someone does of running their business does? I'm confused

As we are all learning. The virus of racism and oppression upon the 99% out ways the wrath of viruses impact by 1000%. That being said, only under these circumstances has the deadliness of this virus been overshadowed. That is why I don't see good things for this countries near future.

 

[Lt Dan]

There's a difference between what should be and what is. I started by saying I don't condone the behavior right now, that is what "should be", but the reality is they are out there and I can understand why. This is a breakdown of the contract of society, so of course they're not doing what they should be doing according to standing rules/laws. The problem is what do you do about it? Arrest thousands of people? We don't have the means. Start shooting? That would end very badly for everyone.

There is a middle ground of non lethal force, gas, paintball guns, salt shot

I think a lot of people's frustration lies that there is almost no in-betweeen . It is either beatings, shootings and mass arrests or letting the looters have carte blanche

 

[Herby]

1. You don't have any right to tell an aggrieved group 'how' to protest. Just last week we had fully armed militias spitting in cops' faces and pushing them at state capitols. What was the exact treatment those folks got that needs to be passed on?

2. To the second paragraph--I think we've said more than a few times over the last few pages that we need to open up with safety standards. It's not quite a consensus, but you're arguing against a minority if you think there's still a massive 'you can't open your business' movement. To that point...

3. Re: the protests--I attended a couple over the weekend and I could count the number of unmasked people on two hands. I think that is mostly corroborated by the footage I saw elsewhere too (except in, like, Huntington Beach, where no one is wearing them anyway). Again, just last week we had marches on the state capitol, and a gigantic pool party in Missouri. I would suggest that peacefully protesting for civil rights falls above those in importance so forgive me but the sudden selective outrage over masks feels a bit empty.




I'm with you here now.

And this happened in San Bernardino last night, as well. The entire force was downtown while the north end started having the real criminals trying to get to homes. I had a few friends on their roofs with rifles. Crazy shit.

You're doing the same thing he is doing. You are using some kind of moral compass to decide who should be able to utilize their constitutional rights and who shouldn't, and that is not how it's supposed to work. Whether that is running a business, protesting on the streets, going to to the beach it doesn't matter. My personal beliefs are that no-where in the constitution does it say "Void during Pandemic" , I am not questioning anyones rights to protest, as I said in a previous post, I fully support non-violent protests, whether I agree with the message or not. But it's just completely wrong to tell one group of citizens they have rights because you think their cause is more noble than someone elses.

And the Lake of the Ozarks thing was last weekend, there was media outrage, a quick google news search shows you all you need to know, same thing with the people protesting in Michigan. They were shamed to no end in the media for peacefully protesting, and a couple weeks later what is the media reaction to a different protest?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh, the irony, eh? Anti-2A citizens running afoul of their own anti-2A laws. Don't forget, the 10 day wait is more like 20 days with the CADOJ's unconstitutional slow-walking of everyone's 5 minute background checks.

I find "anti-2a" to be too broad a brush for most. I can't think of anyone who doesn't think people should have the right to own at least a handgun. I think most of the resistance to guns is people stocking f***ing arsenals.

THAT being said something you and Herby have me absolutely nailed on is I never saw the 'need' to have one until now. Don't get me wrong, I've never fired a gun in my life and I SHOULDN'T have one until I'm properly trained/certified but I get it now, absolutely.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You're doing the same thing he is doing. You are using some kind of moral compass to decide who should be able to utilize their constitutional rights and who shouldn't, and that is not how it's supposed to work. Whether that is running a business, protesting on the streets, going to to the beach it doesn't matter. My personal beliefs are that no-where in the constitution does it say "Void during Pandemic" , I am not questioning anyones rights to protest, as I said in a previous post, I fully support non-violent protests, whether I agree with the message or not. But it's just completely wrong to tell one group of citizens they have rights because you think their cause is more noble than someone elses.

And the Lake of the Ozarks thing was last weekend, there was media outrage, a quick google news search shows you all you need to know, same thing with the people protesting in Michigan. They were shamed to no end in the media for peacefully protesting, and a couple weeks later what is the media reaction to a different protest?

I guess I'm missing who has rights and who doesn't.

As I said I saw most protesters with masks. I also see many businesses now reopening with safety precautions. What am I missing?

 

[Bandit]

I don't own any guns. I detest them actually. But at times like this I wonder if I should get one to protect myself just in case.

All I know is that looters and arsonists will keep looting and burning until law enforcement makes them stop. There may be something to letting these law breakers release some steam, so to speak, for a while, but the reality is that Anifa and BLM and others similar groups are encouraging lawlessness, not merely protests, to further their political agenda. These looters and arsonists aren't all members of these groups, but we know exactly why protests have turned so violent.

I've had a similar thought in times past. Still on the fence.

Just a heads up, if you are serious do it soon besides the 10 days waiting periodm there is a serious back log of orders and the 10 day period begins once the store receives the gun from the manufacturer. So you are realistically looking at close to a month. that may get longer with the riots and looting

your best bet for home defense is a shotgun. If you go the pistol route, get a revolver over a a jammie. If you do have any questions, feel free to PM me

Bandit is right though; losing a business is not the same as someone dying. That starts to changes a bit after you've had to go into forclosure - your wife dies from cancer because she neglected her health because she was overwhelmed and depressed - your daughter starts prostituting after she meets a pimp at the sleazy motel youve had to move to ;gets her hooked on herion and then turns her out where she eventually gets into the wrong car and is murdered. Not the same.

I'm not saying that can't happen, but that's a lot of hoops to jump through.

 

[KingsofLA]

I don't equate losing a business losing a life, no. It's not about nobility. I don't know of any technology to bring people back from the dead, do you? To bring it close, imagine your family members were being picked of by the authorities one by one. How many would you allow before you were spurned to action? Also, you need to ease up on that shit. I'm not taking sides, I'm merely looking at the problem through someone else's eyes.

Come Bandit, you are clearly Left Wing and that is Okay. Most of the Right know the officer f-ed up and should be prosecuted to letter of the law. But to go after innocent folks businesses by looting, stealing and burning of building is not the way . I remember so many business not come back from the LA riots of 92. All that was left were empty lots, like the ones on Vermont

As a young adult, i hung around with some bad folks between Compton to E. LA. Did not really hung too much in the West of LA but had family friends in that area. But i had an ideology of treating people with respect from cops to gangsters & that respect always came back on both fronts. I was never scared of either side and hung out on both ends of the spectrum (similar to my politics). My run ins with officers have always been pleasant and lots of them are fair folks. But if any officers commits a crime, they he needs to prosecuted like any of us.

 

[Lt Dan]

One of the best standup specials ever

 

[BamBam1031]

1. You don't have any right to tell an aggrieved group 'how' to protest. Just last week we had fully armed militias spitting in cops' faces and pushing them at state capitols. What was the exact treatment those folks got that needs to be passed on?

2. To the second paragraph--I think we've said more than a few times over the last few pages that we need to open up with safety standards. It's not quite a consensus, but you're arguing against a minority if you think there's still a massive 'you can't open your business' movement. To that point...

3. Re: the protests--I attended a couple over the weekend and I could count the number of unmasked people on two hands. I think that is mostly corroborated by the footage I saw elsewhere too (except in, like, Huntington Beach, where no one is wearing them anyway). Again, just last week we had marches on the state capitol, and a gigantic pool party in Missouri. I would suggest that peacefully protesting for civil rights falls above those in importance so forgive me but the sudden selective outrage over masks feels a bit empty.




I'm with you here now.

And this happened in San Bernardino last night, as well. The entire force was downtown while the north end started having the real criminals trying to get to homes. I had a few friends on their roofs with rifles. Crazy shit.

Obama himself criticized the protesters. He's part of the "aggrieved group," isn't he? I cited his statement in the post you deleted:

 

[Herby]

I find "anti-2a" to be too broad a brush for most. I can't think of anyone who doesn't think people should have the right to own at least a handgun. I think most of the resistance to guns is people stocking f***ing arsenals.

No offense, but you are horribly mistaken on this one. I'd be willing to wager my entire net worth that if you went to many urban centers in this country that a majority of the population would be in favor of eliminating the 2nd amendment. Chicago would have done it years ago if not for the pesky constitution, they already have insanely strict handgun laws (and great crime results to show for it!)

If you to to some place like Berkley or Ann Arbor you'd have about as much a chance of finding Big Foot as you do of finding someone who is pro 2A.

 

[King'sPawn]

Why can't they sit quietly?

I have family members who are on the brink of losing their business because they were told to sit quietly, they were threatened with arrest if they opened up. We are now supposed to completely forget about about headlines like the Atlantic ran talking about "Georgia's Human Sacrifice", none of that matters now because people on your side believe that this cause is more noble than someone losing a business?

Where is the Atlantic or NY Times headline talking about social distancing in regards to the protests? Does it simply not matter at all anymore? And if it doesn't what does that say about what we've lived through the last two months.

I am not an advocate of protests (especially violent protests and looting), because people need to be safe and not risk spreading the disease, especially since COVID seems more dangerous to minorities.

But you're comparing a one time request of shutting down private, non-essential businesses for a few months to systemic racism, which never seems to end. Even when it was done peacefully (i.e. Colin Kapernick) these voices were marginalized or skewed.

Whether or not you agree with keeping businesses closed, you can't compare that the protesters be told to act just like small business owners, namely because protesters for racial equality aren't treated like small business owners.

And how many of the small business protesters who entered a government building with assault rifles were shot, blinded, gassed, and killed by the police?

You (general you) can mockingly or derisively say "lol what's the difference?" But it is different.

On another note, I can't speak for all stations, but MSNBC did issue warnings today about the dangers of protesting reviving the virus.

 

[BamBam1031]

I find "anti-2a" to be too broad a brush for most. I can't think of anyone who doesn't think people should have the right to own at least a handgun. I think most of the resistance to guns is people stocking f***ing arsenals.

THAT being said something you and Herby have me absolutely nailed on is I never saw the 'need' to have one until now. Don't get me wrong, I've never fired a gun in my life and I SHOULDN'T have one until I'm properly trained/certified but I get it now, absolutely.

Last point first: You don't need training as much as you need mindset. If you're not committed to killing another human being, don't introduce a gun into the equation. The training part is easy.

As to your first point: Apply your Covid-19 logic. Long arms ("assault weapons," shotguns, hunting rifles, etc.) account for approximately 300 gun-related deaths per year. Total. That's including all the mass shootings MSM keeps glorifying. IOW, on a par with deaths related to lollipops and lightning strikes. Handguns account for the rest of the approximately 30,000 gun-related deaths per year.

ETA: Just checked FBI's stats. It's more like 500 out of 36,000. Was going off the top of my head.

 

[Herby]

I am not an advocate of protests (especially violent protests and looting), because people need to be safe and not risk spreading the disease, especially since COVID seems more dangerous to minorities.

But you're comparing a one time request of shutting down private, non-essential businesses for a few months to systemic racism, which never seems to end. Even when it was done peacefully (i.e. Colin Kapernick) these voices were marginalized or skewed.

Whether or not you agree with keeping businesses closed, you can't compare that the protesters be told to act just like small business owners, namely because protesters for racial equality aren't treated like small business owners.

And how many of the small business protesters who entered a government building with assault rifles were shot, blinded, gassed, and killed by the police?

You (general you) can mockingly or derisively say "lol what's the difference?" But it is different.

On another note, I can't speak for all stations, but MSNBC did issue warnings today about the dangers of protesting reviving the virus.

Again. You are applying a moral compass to constitutional rights. You agree with one group more than another so you think one should have more rights, that is not how the constitution works. You can't legally tell one group "Your cause is more just in my eyes so you can go out" and tell another group "Your cause isn't as just you will be arrested if you do" , and you especially don't do it after telling people for months how important it is to stay home.

You seem to think I am not taking their protest seriously, I am, but even if I wasn't I am still going to say that they should have the right to protest. Just as the people had the right in Lansing.

 

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

I don't own any guns. I detest them actually. But at times like this I wonder if I should get one to protect myself just in case.

All I know is that looters and arsonists will keep looting and burning until law enforcement makes them stop. There may be something to letting these law breakers release some steam, so to speak, for a while, but the reality is that Anifa and BLM and others similar groups are encouraging lawlessness, not merely protests, to further their political agenda. These looters and arsonists aren't all members of these groups, but we know exactly why protests have turned so violent.

What the military and law enforcement should be doing is standing out in front of the businesses and let the people walk down the middle of the streets peacefully. Instead there are inciting confrontation by standing tn the protesters way and using riot techniques against them. The government is handling this situation all wrong. They are only exacerbating things toward the negative. This is our country, NOT the governments!

 

[Bandit]

Come Bandit, you are clearly Left Wing and that is Okay. Most of the Right know the officer f-ed up and should be prosecuted to letter of the law. But to go after innocent folks businesses by looting, stealing and burning of building is not the way . I remember so many business not come back from the LA riots of 92. All that was left were empty lots, like the ones on Vermont

As a young adult, i hung around with some bad folks between Compton to E. LA. Did not really hung too much in the West of LA but had family friends in that area. But i had an ideology of treating people with respect from cops to gangsters & that respect always came back on both fronts. I was never scared of either side and hung out on both ends of the spectrum (similar to my politics). My run ins with officers have always been pleasant and lots of them are fair folks. But if any officers commits a crime, they he needs to prosecuted like any of us.

I was referring to taking sides on this specific incident. I agree that in normal circumstances this is not the way, but what do you do when you're marginalized and ignored for forever? Also it's easy for me to say what is or isn't right when I'm not a member of the group that's been marginalized for so long. This is hundreds of years in the making, and we still have a long road to go.

Anyway, this has gotten way off topic and wasn't my intent, I'm out.

 

[Matt13]

Oh, the irony, eh? Anti-2A citizens running afoul of their own anti-2A laws. Don't forget, the 10 day wait is more like 20 days with the CADOJ's unconstitutional slow-walking of everyone's 5 minute background checks.

Its down to about 14 days. I picked up a new pistol and rifle last week. I always buy 2 at a time to save on DROS fees.

 

[King'sPawn]

Again. You are applying a moral compass to constitutional rights. You agree with one group more than another so you think one should have more rights, that is not how the constitution works. You can't legally tell one group "Your cause is more just in my eyes so you can go out" and tell another group "Your cause isn't as just you will be arrested if you do" , and you especially don't do it after telling people for months how important it is to stay home.

You seem to think I am not taking their protest seriously, I am, but even if I wasn't I am still going to say that they should have the right to protest. Just as the people had the right in Lansing.

I said no such thing. I thought the business protesters were endangering themselves, but it is their right to do so. Just as I think the racial protesters are endangering themselves.

I was pointing out that the difference in how the law has treated both sides exemplifies WHY the latter group is protesting. They are not the same. I'm not saying one side has more rights than the other. But you're arguing dishonestly if you think the circumstances and the protesting are the same.

 

[BamBam1031]

How many posts here have blamed the lack of leadership from Trump? Why are my posts blaming the lack of leadership from Democratic governors and mayors deleted?

 

[kingsboy11]

I was referring to taking sides on this specific incident. I agree that in normal circumstances this is not the way, but what do you do when you're marginalized and ignored for forever? Also it's easy for me to say what is or isn't right when I'm not a member of the group that's been marginalized for so long. This is hundreds of years in the making, and we still have a long road to go.

Anyway, this has gotten way off topic and wasn't my intent, I'm out.

I agree. The discussion is civil, but way off topic at the moment. If you want to talk about the protests and how it will relate to COVID-19, be my guest. But at the moment lets try to not get sucked into arguments about the politics of the protests. If you want to continue discussions with other posters then you can take it to PMs.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Obama himself criticized the protesters. He's part of the "aggrieved group," isn't he?

No, Obama criticized the rioters--the ones causing violence, not peaceful demonstrators--and stated it's a combination of protest and politics that will bring about change.

And with respect to both the thread and the original point, the protesters are generally operating with masks, the same safety standards others are being held to in public.