General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[KINGS17]

You should be a Sherpa next

I wanna be a pimp. My friends will get fringe benefits, but you will have to pay for your own penicillin.

 

[Choralone]

I got Omicron a few weeks ago. Me, my wife, and 9-year-old son were all vaccinated/boosted - but my 4-year-old daughter was too young. I isolated myself in the main bedroom for over a week and am thankful no one else got it, but my daughter happened to get the flu and was throwing up for 4 or 5 days - was scared I had given it to her at first.

Hope you and your family get through this as quickly and safely as possible, SettlementRichie10.

 

[Bandit]

Hope you're feeling better. I saw a few pages back that you caught it if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks! We spent about 4 hours indoors with my mother in law who absolutely had it. Me, the wife, and both kids, somehow we all f***ing dodged it. Don't ask me how.

5 year old daughter tested positive last night. So far, very bad headache and nasty fever.

With cases peaking, I really thought we were gonna dodge Omicron like we did Delta and Alpha.

Business is struggling. In-laws are screaming at us to just take Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine. Just waiting now until my wife and I show symptoms. The stress is overwhelming, man. I don’t have anything left.

I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling, it's been a shit two years. Really hope your daughter gets better asap.

 

[Rusty Batch]

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 ...

Another large study, this time from the CDC, showing that natural immunity provides better protection than vaccination. It also shows that there is almost no benefit for people with prior infection to get the vaccine.

 

[RonM11]

Preface: Tuesday is low case count day

View attachment 501749

Big drop in hosp today: 1162-----> 1114
ICU down 195----> 191

Hospitalizations are coming down across the nations by about 6% from last week; I expect that to continue. I don't think Taco Tuesdays will have an effect on that number.

One disconcerting stat: the nationally daily death rate is significantly up from just the past week: 29%. We really shouldn't be that surprised; after all, we have seen this movie before. Additionally, a somewhat surprising stat from last week: the daily death total exceeded the peak from Delta last week, and the weekly average is continuing to grow.

 

[RonM11]

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 ...

Another large study, this time from the CDC, showing that natural immunity provides better protection than vaccination. It also shows that there is almost no benefit for people with prior infection to get the vaccine.

Did you read the article? There is nothing in that research that supports either of your claims. First of all, the data available is limited: "The findings in this report are subject to at least seven limitations."

The actual conclusion from the research is:

"Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death. Primary vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended for all eligible persons. Additional future recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted as the virus and immunity levels change."

And:

"Vaccination protected against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, and surviving a previous infection protected against a reinfection and related hospitalization during periods of predominantly Alpha and Delta variant transmission, before the emergence of Omicron; evidence suggests decreased protection from both vaccine- and infection-induced immunity against Omicron infections, although additional protection with widespread receipt of booster COVID-19 vaccine doses is expected. Initial infection among unvaccinated persons increases risk for serious illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death; by November 30, 2021, approximately 130,781 residents of California and New York had died from COVID-19. Thus, vaccination remains the safest and primary strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections, associated complications, and onward transmission. Primary COVID-19 vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended by CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to ensure that all eligible persons are up to date with COVID-19 vaccination, which provides the most robust protection against initial infection, severe illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death.***** Additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change."

 

[Rusty Batch]

Did you read the article? There is nothing in that research that supports either of your claims. First of all, the data available is limited: "The findings in this report are subject to at least seven limitations."

The actual conclusion from the research is:

"Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death. Primary vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended for all eligible persons. Additional future recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted as the virus and immunity levels change."

And:

"Vaccination protected against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, and surviving a previous infection protected against a reinfection and related hospitalization during periods of predominantly Alpha and Delta variant transmission, before the emergence of Omicron; evidence suggests decreased protection from both vaccine- and infection-induced immunity against Omicron infections, although additional protection with widespread receipt of booster COVID-19 vaccine doses is expected. Initial infection among unvaccinated persons increases risk for serious illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death; by November 30, 2021, approximately 130,781 residents of California and New York had died from COVID-19. Thus, vaccination remains the safest and primary strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections, associated complications, and onward transmission. Primary COVID-19 vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended by CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to ensure that all eligible persons are up to date with COVID-19 vaccination, which provides the most robust protection against initial infection, severe illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death.***** Additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change."

I read the article. I also looked at the data they provided.

The study consists of four different groups:
1.) Unvaccinated, with no prior infection.
2.) Unvaccinated, with prior infection.
3.) Vaccinated, with no prior infection.
4.) Vaccinated, with prior infection.

Of those groups by far the least protection was unvaccinated and no prior infection.

The other three groups were all very well protected. But the next group at greatest risk was Vaccinated with no prior infection.

The next two groups were again highly protected and with an almost indistinguishable difference in protection. Those two groups were both Unvaccinated and Vaccinated with prior infection. They had the best protection however the vaccinated group (w/prior infection) did just barely beat out the unvaccinated (w/prior infection).

I presented data similar to this from Israel months ago and it was met with a fair amount of pushback. This data is from the CDC and tells a similar and not at all surprising story.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 ...

Another large study, this time from the CDC, showing that natural immunity provides better protection than vaccination. It also shows that there is almost no benefit for people with prior infection to get the vaccine.

"What is added by this report?
During May–November 2021, case and hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis. Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.
What are the implications for public health practice?
Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death. Primary vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended for all eligible persons. Additional future recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted as the virus and immunity levels change."

The sucky thing about natural immunity providing protection is having to survive the infection first. It's not a 'strategy' to protect against covid by catching covid.

 

[Rusty Batch]

"What is added by this report?
During May–November 2021, case and hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis. Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.
What are the implications for public health practice?
Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death. Primary vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended for all eligible persons. Additional future recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted as the virus and immunity levels change."

The sucky thing about natural immunity providing protection is having to survive the infection first. It's not a 'strategy' to protect against covid by catching covid.

Yeah that's a point people make all the time. But for millions of people (like myself and my family) we caught covid before the vaccine was even available. And a lot of us don't see the point in getting the vaccine when there is excellent protection provided by natural immunity.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah that's a point people make all the time. But for millions of people (like myself and my family) we caught covid before the vaccine was even available. And a lot of us don't see the point in getting the vaccine when there is excellent protection provided by natural immunity.

Yes and that part is excellent news, I just wish it wouldn't be so misused.

What would be really interesting and probably only unfortunately available when it doesn't matter anymore is analysis of results by 'date of infection' or the variant caught, like how far back does natural immunity help, etc., because I think that would help with policy. but for now things still change so quickly it's hard to say anything definitively.

 

[BigKing]

"What is added by this report?
During May–November 2021, case and hospitalization rates were highest among persons who were unvaccinated without a previous diagnosis. Before Delta became the predominant variant in June, case rates were higher among persons who survived a previous infection than persons who were vaccinated alone. By early October, persons who survived a previous infection had lower case rates than persons who were vaccinated alone.
What are the implications for public health practice?
Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death. Primary vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended for all eligible persons. Additional future recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted as the virus and immunity levels change."

The sucky thing about natural immunity providing protection is having to survive the infection first. It's not a 'strategy' to protect against covid by catching covid.

But if you got vaccinated and then survived the infection afterwards, you shouldn't be forced to get a booster. That's where I stand currently. If you got vaccinated previously and haven't been infected and are eligible for the booster than you should probably get it.

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah that's a point people make all the time. But for millions of people (like myself and my family) we caught covid before the vaccine was even available. And a lot of us don't see the point in getting the vaccine when there is excellent protection provided by natural immunity.

I tend to agree, and I am fully vaccinated + booster. Had I caught the omicron variant over the holiday, I would not have taken the booster shot recently. Too many unknowns with infection + quick booster, and you likely have all the protection you would need against hospitalization.

 

[Choralone]

There would need to be a plan to easily and quickly test for antibodies and document positive results as an acceptable alternative to vaccination. Vaccination makes it easy from an administration and public policy standpoint to track.

On a side note, my grandmother was a Christian Scientist. It just seems so weird to me that the mindset of a little-followed religion on its way out now seems to have become absorbed by mainstream evangelicals.

 

[KINGS17]

Yes and that part is excellent news, I just wish it wouldn't be so misused.

What would be really interesting and probably only unfortunately available when it doesn't matter anymore is analysis of results by 'date of infection' or the variant caught, like how far back does natural immunity help, etc., because I think that would help with policy. but for now things still change so quickly it's hard to say anything definitively.

You expect the CDC or NIH to walk and chew gum at the same time on covid stats? Not happening.

It would be nice if they just presented raw data of the type you are suggesting and let people draw their own conclusions after consulting their doctor.

I don't worry so much after starting my daily regimen of horse dewormer.

 

[KingLB]

You expect the CDC or NIH to walk and chew gum at the same time on covid stats? Not happening.

It would be nice if they just presented raw data of the type you are suggesting and let people draw their own conclusions after consulting their doctor.

I don't worry so much after starting my daily regimen of horse dewormer.

Idk, I’ve lost faith in the general populations ability to draw own conclusions.

I’m being somewhat? Sarcastic ?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I tend to agree, and I am fully vaccinated + booster. Had I caught the omicron variant over the holiday, I would not have taken the booster shot recently. Too many unknowns with infection + quick booster, and you likely have all the protection you would need against hospitalization.

I am 100% on board with that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Idk, I’ve lost faith in the general populations ability to draw own conclusions.

I’m being somewhat? Sarcastic ?

 

[Lt Dan]

Preface: Tuesday is low case count day

View attachment 501749

Big drop in hosp today: 1162-----> 1114
ICU down 195----> 191

Good news all around!!
New cases continue to drop
Hosp down 1114---->1086
ICU down from 191-----> 179


and good news all around means

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Numbers are coming down fast as far as patients in hospital but I will say morale among staff is really low. Staff is tired of bearing these waves because people won't get vaccinated. It's getting passed among staff and tensions are pretty high. Patients get it from staff and staff gets it from patients. It is milder than Delta but not necessarily mild. I'm probably gonna disappear for a little while for a week or 2. Just need a break and to detach from all this. Take care. Have fun.

 

[BigKing]

Numbers are coming down fast as far as patients in hospital but I will say morale among staff is really low. Staff is tired of bearing these waves because people won't get vaccinated. It's getting passed among staff and tensions are pretty high. Patients get it from staff and staff gets it from patients. It is milder than Delta but not necessarily mild. I'm probably gonna disappear for a little while for a week or 2. Just need a break and to detach from all this. Take care. Have fun.

Wife is a mother/baby nurse but has been floated around the last few shifts due to COVID like she has during previous waves. She's pretty fed up with it. Just got her Masters in some sort of nurse teaching thing so she's looking to get out of bedside ASAP and not have to deal with this anymore.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Just thought I’d give an update.
5 year old healthy daughter has made a full recovery. She had roughly 2.5 days of severe symptomatic illness (primarily headache, fever, and nausea). We almost took her to the hospital because she started to complain about not being able to breathe, and then she vomited. But shortly after that she said she could breathe again, and her oximeter reading was normal. Ibuprofen helped the most.

It’s now been five days since daughter’s onset of symptoms. Wife experienced onset of symptoms two days ago. She is double vaccinated. No booster. Her primary symptoms are severe headache and fever. Overall, she herself believes she has a mild case (thus far).

I’ve not yet exhibited symptoms. None of us are wearing masks inside the household. Daughter was outright lying on top of me first night of symptoms.

I’m double vaccinated, no booster, but have a suspected prior infection in November 2021 (fever, vicious cough, headache, worst sore throat of my life).

At this point, it’s quite the mindf*** of wondering when my symptoms will show, and then wondering if I’ll have symptoms at all being double vaxxed with a prior infection.

 

[RonM11]

Just thought I’d give an update.
5 year old healthy daughter has made a full recovery. She had roughly 2.5 days of severe symptomatic illness (primarily headache, fever, and nausea). We almost took her to the hospital because she started to complain about not being able to breathe, and then she vomited. But shortly after that she said she could breathe again, and her oximeter reading was normal. Ibuprofen helped the most.

It’s now been five days since daughter’s onset of symptoms. Wife experienced onset of symptoms two days ago. She is double vaccinated. No booster. Her primary symptoms are severe headache and fever. Overall, she herself believes she has a mild case (thus far).

I’ve not yet exhibited symptoms. None of us are wearing masks inside the household. Daughter was outright lying on top of me first night of symptoms.

I’m double vaccinated, no booster, but have a suspected prior infection in November 2021 (fever, vicious cough, headache, worst sore throat of my life).

At this point, it’s quite the mindf*** of wondering when my symptoms will show, and then wondering if I’ll have symptoms at all being double vaxxed with a prior infection.

Great to hear that your daughter is over it.

I would say once your wife recovers, she should consider being boosted. The latest numbers are that a two-prime vaccination regime protects 57% against severe illness compared to a three-prime vaccination regime protection level of 90%. That's worth the price of admission right there. However, since she has obviously been infected, the booster itself may not be of much more value than the two-prime plus the infection.

If your illness in November was indeed COVID-19, you are probably in the same boat. A two-prime vaccination regime plus the infection in November (sounds like Omicron) should protect you as well as you can be protected, IMO.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know it's always been a symptom, but anecdotally I've heard of SO many more people suffering severe headaches this go-round

 

[Lt Dan]

View attachment 502147
Good news all around!!
New cases continue to drop
Hosp down 1114---->1086
ICU down from 191-----> 179

These are Thursday's numbers

Cases way down
Hosp 1086---->1067
ICU up a little 179---->184

 

[Lt Dan]

These are Thursday's numbers
View attachment 502788

Cases way down
Hosp 1086---->1067
ICU up a little 179---->184

Oooff the cases
Hosp 1067--->1022
ICU 184--->178