General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Lt Dan]

Get your lazy ass off the beach in Aruba, and get back to work!

Lol I wish

This was not a pleasure trip. I was also supposed to be home Sunday and all hell broke loose

 

[RonM11]

I am vaccinated but got Omicron anyways like tons of other folks. I'm not anti-vaxx or whatever but doesn't this booster stuff seem ridiculous since it isn't designed for Omicron? My wife is a nurse and has to be boosted by February 1 or else she has to be tested routinely and some other annoyances. She just completed her 10th day from symptoms last Friday and really doesn't want to get boosted so soon after having the virus.

Again, not anti-vaxx but aren't they jumping the gun with this booster stuff? Boosted are still getting Omicron regardless and the booster is just the same thing we already took before that doesn't stop the dominant variant anyways AND we all just had COVID on top of it.

Pfizer CEO claimed earlier this month that an Omicron-specific vaccine (not booster, but vaccine) will be available by March.

I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm not sure how useful such a variant-specific vaccine will be, given that Omicron will likely be at very low levels in the population by March.

 

[BigKing]

Pfizer CEO claimed earlier this month that an Omicron-specific vaccine (not booster, but vaccine) will be available by March.

I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm not sure how useful such a variant-specific vaccine will be, given that Omicron will likely be at very low levels in the population by March.

I've heard the March timeline as well but what you say is kind of my point: when do we stop having to take a vaccine every six months or so? We can get the Omi-vaccine just in time for some other variant to come out and possibly be resistant to the next variant. At some point, they have to stop requiring this and it becomes like the flu shot every year, right?

I've read that Hawaii is thinking about requiring a booster to visit. This thing with my wife's employer. Like, I can get it when it is the first vaccination but I feel that--at some point--the human body has to take over and we can't just rely on the government and Big Pharm to prop up our immune systems every year. I don't doubt that a booster doesn't help towards reducing the severity but I know that the first two shots do that as well even if you are 7 months or so removed. It did seem to actually slow the spread but Omicron just came in and blew all of that away but, since they were pushing the booster before Omicron swept in, they are sticking to their booster guns.

Your posts reflect the severity of it and run counter to those on here that maybe downplay the severity of it. Yes, deaths are still occurring even with the "milder" variant but it still seems to be focused on the unvaccinated. When they run those stats, I'm sure that "vaccinated" doesn't mean "boosted" but probably means "both shots" and possibly means "at least one shot". If you got both shots and then also got the virus too, this booster stuff seems like overkill. I work with people that didn't get vaccinated and their recent experiences seem much worse than mine so--once again--I'm not taking a dump on the vaccine in general: I just have a problem with throwing a net over the entire population when it comes to getting boosted and I am fearing the probable implementation of a vaccine card requiring proof of booster on it in order to go places/attend events. So much of the country is going to be in a two shot/had the illness boat after this Omicron wave so the booster seems a bit much.

To me, it feels like a "better safe than sorry" v. real strong science...like telling restaurants and bars that they couldn't put the Super Bowl on TV. Does it help a bit? Sure. Enough to sign up for another shot? Not so sure about that. Then again, I'm just an idiot who doesn't even like to take Advil.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I've heard the March timeline as well but what you say is kind of my point: when do we stop having to take a vaccine every six months or so? We can get the Omi-vaccine just in time for some other variant to come out and possibly be resistant to the next variant. At some point, they have to stop requiring this and it becomes like the flu shot every year, right?

I've read that Hawaii is thinking about requiring a booster to visit. This thing with my wife's employer. Like, I can get it when it is the first vaccination but I feel that--at some point--the human body has to take over and we can't just rely on the government and Big Pharm to prop up our immune systems every year. I don't doubt that a booster doesn't help towards reducing the severity but I know that the first two shots do that as well even if you are 7 months or so removed. It did seem to actually slow the spread but Omicron just came in and blew all of that away but, since they were pushing the booster before Omicron swept in, they are sticking to their booster guns.

Your posts reflect the severity of it and run counter to those on here that maybe downplay the severity of it. Yes, deaths are still occurring even with the "milder" variant but it still seems to be focused on the unvaccinated. When they run those stats, I'm sure that "vaccinated" doesn't mean "boosted" but probably means "both shots" and possibly means "at least one shot". If you got both shots and then also got the virus too, this booster stuff seems like overkill. I work with people that didn't get vaccinated and their recent experiences seem much worse than mine so--once again--I'm not taking a dump on the vaccine in general: I just have a problem with throwing a net over the entire population when it comes to getting boosted and I am fearing the probable implementation of a vaccine card requiring proof of booster on it in order to go places/attend events. So much of the country is going to be in a two shot/had the illness boat after this Omicron wave so the booster seems a bit much.

To me, it feels like a "better safe than sorry" v. real strong science...like telling restaurants and bars that they couldn't put the Super Bowl on TV. Does it help a bit? Sure. Enough to sign up for another shot? Not so sure about that. Then again, I'm just an idiot who doesn't even like to take Advil.

I don't think they can or should make a booster for every variant. Until Omicron we had pretty reliable vaccine defense against every other prominent variant. Sure, it'll change again. But I think we're at the point where, like the flu, we're more likely to see a yearly booster than a "welp new variant, new booster" if for practicality if nothign else, you know?

Unless we get an Omicron-like variant in spread that's deadly, in which case back to square 1 I'd imagine.

 

[Bandit]

Still traveling. ...
New cases 6532
Hosp 1232 ------>1183. That's a bitchen drop
Icu 207------>199

Hopefully this trend continues.

Are you out running with Forrest?

 

[RonM11]

I've heard the March timeline as well but what you say is kind of my point: when do we stop having to take a vaccine every six months or so? We can get the Omi-vaccine just in time for some other variant to come out and possibly be resistant to the next variant. At some point, they have to stop requiring this and it becomes like the flu shot every year, right?

I've read that Hawaii is thinking about requiring a booster to visit. This thing with my wife's employer. Like, I can get it when it is the first vaccination but I feel that--at some point--the human body has to take over and we can't just rely on the government and Big Pharm to prop up our immune systems every year. I don't doubt that a booster doesn't help towards reducing the severity but I know that the first two shots do that as well even if you are 7 months or so removed. It did seem to actually slow the spread but Omicron just came in and blew all of that away but, since they were pushing the booster before Omicron swept in, they are sticking to their booster guns.

Your posts reflect the severity of it and run counter to those on here that maybe downplay the severity of it. Yes, deaths are still occurring even with the "milder" variant but it still seems to be focused on the unvaccinated. When they run those stats, I'm sure that "vaccinated" doesn't mean "boosted" but probably means "both shots" and possibly means "at least one shot". If you got both shots and then also got the virus too, this booster stuff seems like overkill. I work with people that didn't get vaccinated and their recent experiences seem much worse than mine so--once again--I'm not taking a dump on the vaccine in general: I just have a problem with throwing a net over the entire population when it comes to getting boosted and I am fearing the probable implementation of a vaccine card requiring proof of booster on it in order to go places/attend events. So much of the country is going to be in a two shot/had the illness boat after this Omicron wave so the booster seems a bit much.

To me, it feels like a "better safe than sorry" v. real strong science...like telling restaurants and bars that they couldn't put the Super Bowl on TV. Does it help a bit? Sure. Enough to sign up for another shot? Not so sure about that. Then again, I'm just an idiot who doesn't even like to take Advil.

In response, here is what is going to be the game-changer in that we should not have to take boosters every six months.

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Against All COVID & SARS Variants, Researchers Say

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I don't think they can or should make a booster for every variant. Until Omicron we had pretty reliable vaccine defense against every other prominent variant. Sure, it'll change again. But I think we're at the point where, like the flu, we're more likely to see a yearly booster than a "welp new variant, new booster" if for practicality if nothign else, you know?

Unless we get an Omicron-like variant in spread that's deadly, in which case back to square 1 I'd imagine.

I think it's going to be depend on the variant. While the booster is best right now as it relates to reliability of preventing death and hospitalization, Omicron is now the root virus where future variants are going to deviate from. If the next variant, Pi, is going to be a wicked one in severity, it would be good to be ahead of it so we can get a vaccine ready. The further we are away from the root, The original strain to Omicron, the less effective the vaccine can be because it is a vaccine not based on the virus itself but based on the spike which already has 12 mutations that we are aware of. If the morphology continues to change, then it would be even harder to keep up with it. There is a high level of unprediciability in its ability to determine what the next variant looks like. Delta was a big jump from Alpha and Beta. Omicron also had a large change in how it functions because it does have the interferon which turns off the human immune system like Delta. But Pi could be and will likely be very different. The closer they can be to the current variant the better.

This also explains why therapeutics have been so hard to come by. Killing a bacteria is fun. Watch antibodies go to work on a cell wall on YouTube. It's like seek and destroy. Viruses are harder because they are almost impossible to kill in the body without doing harm to the host because they are so much smaller. We can go after it's ability to replicate or try to hijack it's machinery but killing a virus is next to impossible. So scientists opted to attack the spike protein but it's evolving away from that by adapting to us. Nasty little F#$%. It's going to keep evolving and so should we.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Are you out running with Forrest?

Hope you're feeling better. I saw a few pages back that you caught it if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Lt Dan]

Still traveling. ...
New cases 6532
Hosp 1232 ------>1183. That's a bitchen drop
Icu 207------>199

Hopefully this trend continues.

Big drop in hosp again today
Icu down too

 

[KINGS17]

We should start calling it a covid shot, because it clearly isn't a vaccine. Still does an effective job against hospitalizations and mortality, but the messaging is off when calling it a vaccine.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

We should start calling it a covid shot, because it clearly isn't a vaccine. Still does an effective job against hospitalizations and mortality, but the messaging is off when calling it a vaccine.

Can you expand on that? What is it not doing and why would that not qualify it to be a vaccine? I'm more curious than anything else. Some vaccines do come in batches of 3s like Hep B, which is not unusual and boosters are nothing new. DTAP is every 10 years after one becomes an adult with at least 2 as a child. MMR is also at least 2 if memory serves me. I think it's a bit off to say it's not a vaccine considering that this is an evolving virus and since we have yet to reach heard immunity it's going to try to keep up with us as much as we keep with it as a virus.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We should start calling it a covid shot, because it clearly isn't a vaccine. Still does an effective job against hospitalizations and mortality, but the messaging is off when calling it a vaccine.

It's interesting because I"ve never been raised to believe any vaccine is perfect, my definition was they offered protection against a virus, not absolute immunity. I've gotten the flu booster nearly every year and have still gotten a relatively minor flu. But it seems like a lot of people seem to believe vaccination should offer 100% immunity and I'm just not sure where that definition came from.

Not being combative, I genuinely mean it's interesting because that seems like a pretty critical public miscommunication.

 

[Schrute farms]

I'm pretty sure it's called a "Flu shot" -- not a "Flu vaccine".

I don't mind to be combative either myself. But I do feel like these little things (maybe it's a messaging problem) just hurt the overall process. Obviously the mixed messaging, changing of rules, contrary rules/statements, etc., etc. during the past 21 months have made things worse and confusing. Same with the hospital Covid counts showing "people in the hospital WITH covid" -- which is VERY different than people "in the hospital FOR covid". Maybe this latter thing is a money issue (or political, PR, etc.). But my problem (coming from a fully vaxxed guy and all close family is as well and with some family nurses) is that these little things just give fuel to the crazy conspiracy folks and give them something to hang their hat on as validity for their wacky thoughts/theories. Why can't we simple have real, honest data and be fully transparent with it all. In the long-run, we're all better for it. But so many want to artificially push the wind in their favor -- since they know they are right. Perception is reality. ok, enough soap box...i'm getting way off track yet again.

 

[KINGS17]

It's interesting because I"ve never been raised to believe any vaccine is perfect, my definition was they offered protection against a virus, not absolute immunity. I've gotten the flu booster nearly every year and have still gotten a relatively minor flu. But it seems like a lot of people seem to believe vaccination should offer 100% immunity and I'm just not sure where that definition came from.

Not being combative, I genuinely mean it's interesting because that seems like a pretty critical public miscommunication.

When I think of vaccines, I think of childhood vaccines like smallpox, MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), and polio. If you receive these vaccines, you won't get infected, or the rate of infection is so low it is almost unheard of in the U.S.

This isn't the case with the covid "vaccine". This vaccine is more like the flu shot. There are always many strains of flu in any given flu season. Sometimes the flu shot is right on target, but most of the time it isn't. Getting a flu shot is still a good idea though, because if you get the flu you will not suffer the same degree of illness/symptoms as if you had not received a flu shot.

I think all of us know someone who was fully vaccinated, and went on to catch covid.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm pretty sure it's called a "Flu shot" -- not a "Flu vaccine".

I don't mind to be combative either myself. But I do feel like these little things (maybe it's a messaging problem) just hurt the overall process. Obviously the mixed messaging, changing of rules, contrary rules/statements, etc., etc. during the past 21 months have made things worse and confusing. Same with the hospital Covid counts showing "people in the hospital WITH covid" -- which is VERY different than people "in the hospital FOR covid". Maybe this latter thing is a money issue (or political, PR, etc.). But my problem (coming from a fully vaxxed guy and all close family is as well and with some family nurses) is that these little things just give fuel to the crazy conspiracy folks and give them something to hang their hat on as validity for their wacky thoughts/theories. Why can't we simple have real, honest data and be fully transparent with it all. In the long-run, we're all better for it. But so many want to artificially push the wind in their favor -- since they know they are right. Perception is reality. ok, enough soap box...i'm getting way off track yet again.

I agree. Some people have taken the term "vaccinated" and what it means to them, which is immunity from the covid virus, and used the fact that fully vaccinated people are still catching covid as an argument against getting the covid vaccine. Bad idea, if you are a person at risk.

The "people with covid" in the hospital vs people in the hospital due to covid is definitely a money thing.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I'm pretty sure it's called a "Flu shot" -- not a "Flu vaccine".

I don't mind to be combative either myself. But I do feel like these little things (maybe it's a messaging problem) just hurt the overall process. Obviously the mixed messaging, changing of rules, contrary rules/statements, etc., etc. during the past 21 months have made things worse and confusing. Same with the hospital Covid counts showing "people in the hospital WITH covid" -- which is VERY different than people "in the hospital FOR covid". Maybe this latter thing is a money issue (or political, PR, etc.). But my problem (coming from a fully vaxxed guy and all close family is as well and with some family nurses) is that these little things just give fuel to the crazy conspiracy folks and give them something to hang their hat on as validity for their wacky thoughts/theories. Why can't we simple have real, honest data and be fully transparent with it all. In the long-run, we're all better for it. But so many want to artificially push the wind in their favor -- since they know they are right. Perception is reality. ok, enough soap box...i'm getting way off track yet again.

It is actually a flu vaccine. It's an interesting discussion about viruses and I love chatting about them. Vaccine has had a negative connotation since that study where the guy from England made up the data about vaccines and autism. The rest is history as it relates to conspiracy theories. The guy got his licensed revoked but the damage was done. Nowadays, the flu vaccine gets marketed as a shot no one bothers to correct them because we're just happy to keep people out of the hospital but in the medical setting it technically is a vaccine. The flu virus evolves and changes easily while a corona virus (ie the like the common cold), is wrapped in a bubble which keeps it stable and mutations are less likely. That's why we have 4 major common colds that most kids get by 7 years old. However, we have more than 270 strains of the flu virus currently to my knowledge, broken down into types A, B, C, D. However, each flu vaccine can really only contain 3 or 4 variants and its a guess as to which strand is going to circulate each year and keep in mind it's going to mutate during flu season. Once it's created, they don't go back modify it. I think the flu is always one step ahead of us because it mutates during the season and I think it responds to our vaccine as it learns and changes but that's my theory. I just don't know enough. However, some years we may only get 35 to 45% effective but each vaccine builds immunity over time and hangs out in the memory cells. But when it's a nasty flu that kills a lot of people it's a life saver. But it is not expected to be perfect. But colds are just colds and rarely kill, however they likely started out something like COVID eons ago and kept evolving over 100s of years. There is a podcast called TWIV, this week in virology which is interesting to listen to.

That said, I agree with everything else you said. Bang on.

 

[Kudelski37]

When I think of vaccines, I think of childhood vaccines like smallpox, MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), and polio. If you receive these vaccines, you won't get infected, or the rate of infection is so low it is almost unheard of in the U.S.OTE]

It took years of mandatory vaccinations to get to that point with the illnesses you listed.

 

[KINGS17]

It took years of mandatory vaccinations to get to that point with the illnesses you listed.

It took years to get to herd immunity. People who were vaccinated did not catch those diseases. That's the difference.

 

[Kudelski37]

Not true. Herd immunity prevents breakthrough infections. Plenty of kids were infected after vaccination but before herd immunity.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Not true. Herd immunity prevents breakthrough infections. Plenty of kids were infected after vaccination but before herd immunity.

Yes, it just prevented severe disease. Polio vaccine went public in 1955 but it was eradicated from the US in 1968. It's a four dose regimen.

MMR vaccine came out in 1971 after prior versions came out, modified, tweaked. Again multiple doses. The endemic in the US ended in the year 2000. 29 years! Vaccine hesitancy is a real thing and nothing new. I think it's gonna be school vaccinations that clear this out for future generations.

Timeline | History of Vaccines

 

[Lt Dan]

Big drop in hosp again today
Icu down too

18927/3= 6309 cases per day.
Hosp 1162 a small increase from friday
ICU 195 up 7 from friday

 

[SettlementRichie10]

5 year old daughter tested positive last night. So far, very bad headache and nasty fever.

With cases peaking, I really thought we were gonna dodge Omicron like we did Delta and Alpha.

Business is struggling. In-laws are screaming at us to just take Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine. Just waiting now until my wife and I show symptoms. The stress is overwhelming, man. I don’t have anything left.

 

[KINGS17]

5 year old daughter tested positive last night. So far, very bad headache and nasty fever.is

With cases peaking, I really thought we were gonna dodge Omicron like we did Delta and Alpha.

Business is struggling. In-laws are screaming at us to just take Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine. Just waiting now until my wife and I show symptoms. The stress is overwhelming, man. I don’t have anything left.

I hope your daughter comes through aces, and is feeling better soon.

What business are you in Richie?

I am starting to see more colleagues struggle to find work in the aircraft engineering consulting business, and am thankful that I fill a necessary niche in that industry for which not many others have the credentials. Overall I think transport category part of the industry is going to stay down. I don't think business travel is going to recover fully. People have found out remote work is effective. There are still some other areas where I expect growth like autonomous UAVs, especially for cargo.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

5 year old daughter tested positive last night. So far, very bad headache and nasty fever.

With cases peaking, I really thought we were gonna dodge Omicron like we did Delta and Alpha.

Business is struggling. In-laws are screaming at us to just take Ivermectin and Hydroxychloriquine. Just waiting now until my wife and I show symptoms. The stress is overwhelming, man. I don’t have anything left.

A lot of kids near us have tested positive in the last week and it's mostly headache, cold symptoms, low grade fever. Honestly may not have even thought "covid" due to the severe headaches, the tests sent home caught it. Hoping the best for your daughter and that the worst is behind you guys!

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Thanks. I know that the point of the vaccine is more to lessen the severity of the illness. If you are a young (relatively) healthy person who already had two shots and got Omicron, why would you rush out to get a booster of the same stuff? It obviously does not stop the spread of the variant that is 99% of all cases and will most likely not stop the next variant.

Go get boosted was being pushed before Omicron came in and took a dump on the booster's ability to stop the spread. Having the first two shots supposedly still lessens the severity of the illness anyways.

I don't know. It is much easier to start thinking about the money behind all of this when the push is to get another shot of the same stuff that is designed for the original strain. I agree that the messaging is bad...this requirement for a N95 or KN95 is glossed over but it's like, you were cool with cloth masks until last week? Do you even know what you are doing?!?

There are those that push back for political reasons on vaccines and there are those that will take five boosters for political reasons if the government tells them to. For everyone that did their part and got the first two doses though, I think it is right to be skeptical about the need for the booster. I mean, we should always be skeptical of everything but it just seems much easier to be skeptical about this.

Getting vaccinated to begin with is important and I don't argue that; however, it just feels like the booster push is because the entire case for the vaccine starts to fall apart if it doesn't do a good job of slowing/stopping the spread. Again, that isn't the primary point of the vaccine but that is why most people would want to get it. Call me selfish if you want, but I went and did the two shots and I just had the virus: I am in no rush to get another shot of something that isn't even designed for what's going on right now. Will I never get another one? Not saying that but I'm pretty much not interested in what I consider an old-news vaccine at this point and I think it is ridiculous that my fully-vaccinated wife has to go get boosted 20 days after having the virus or else she has to jump through a bunch of hoops to go to work. It feels like there should be some sort of critical thinking going on but it's just "Trust us: it's good for you".

Coming back to this since I saw this this morning and we were discussing it the other day...

There is some data that shows having a booster shot does slow the spread of omicron (even if not as much as earlier variants):