GDT: GDT: #49 New York Islanders at Toronto Maple Leafs | January 23rd | 7:30 PM | F/5-2 L

[Big L]

Hmmm, just saw this:

Seems like botta is forgetting that trotz didn’t have it in him to give coaching 100% this year.

 

[Strait2thecup]

I’m not sure if I’ve ever dislike an iteration of an isles team this much. 2 goals and lose like clockwork. This isn’t watchable anymore

 

[mm11]

Philly is gonna knock our d#cks in the dirt. Could be the coffin to the year as lane has lost the team. Disappointing but hey, the sun is shining. LGI!

 

[Bones45]

We are Willie Mays. Game 2 in 1973 World Series


For you to have 5 minutes alone with him?

He'd never recover.

 

[Mike C]

One of my fave bands, Seen them live several times in a few cities.
Including at Kings Theatre in Brooklyn...just a few days before I discovered the Islanders!
What a great show it was.

the trio of titles came to me as i was watching that garbage on the ice last night

He'd never recover.

pick you up at what 6?

 

[Mike C]

Schultz vs Trouba? I can hope.

it's the 74-75 Rags, they aren't rough and tumble. Schultz not playing. i spot him in and out of lineup

speaking of trouba, wish the isles had him, at least he'd knock people on their ass and light a fire under these washed up bags of dung

Baffling how they can go from playing ‘one of the best periods if the season’ (first) to the other team playing their ‘best period of the season’ (second) with the flick of a switch. How is that even possible?

oh and here comes Philly. Yes, that Philly.

how is that possible? even shaq hit a free throw every now and then. team is too old and slow to play sustained 60 minute competitive hockey

Seems like botta is forgetting that trotz didn’t have it in him to give coaching 100% this year.

maybe he's rejuvinated

 

[leeroggy]

Philly is gonna knock our d#cks in the dirt. Could be the coffin to the year as lane has lost the team. Disappointing but hey, the sun is shining. LGI!

I can't agree that Lane has lost the room. Hockey teams get on a roll negatively just like they do positively, and this team shows a fragile ego right now. No coach can cure that in this sport. You grip the stick harder, think instead of reacting, and a bad bounce hits twice as hard.

You only get out of it if you work harder and get a few breaks. That's been the sport at this level for decades. Like at Vancouver. Did Boudreau lose his ability to coach? Torts in Columbus? The NHL is designed to be a white-knuckle sport with the loser point. And ego is pretty tough to recover.

We need a few kids to break through. That's no secret. This team is a known commodity since it's been around and together so long.

it's the 74-75 Rags, they aren't rough and tumble. Schultz not playing. i spot him in and out of lineup

speaking of trouba, wish the isles had him, at least he'd knock people on their ass and light a fire under these washed up bags of dung


how is that possible? even shaq hit a free throw every now and then. team is too old and slow to play sustained 60 minute competitive hockey


maybe he's rejuvinated

Schultz only plays when Dale Rolfe is in the lineup?

 

[MJF]

i think Lou needs to be removed from any hockey making decisions and be given a figurehead position. if he balks at that then fire him the way he fired Barry and call it a day

Why should Lou have any position in the organization at all if he was fired as GM? Thank him for what he did for the Islanders and send him on his way.

 

[Mike C]

I can't agree that Lane has lost the room. Hockey teams get on a roll negatively just like they do positively, and this team shows a fragile ego right now. No coach can cure that in this sport. You grip the stick harder, think instead of reacting, and a bad bounce hits twice as hard.

You only get out of it if you work harder and get a few breaks. That's been the sport at this level for decades. Like at Vancouver. Did Boudreau lose his ability to coach? Torts in Columbus? The NHL is designed to be a white-knuckle sport with the loser point. And ego is pretty tough to recover.

We need a few kids to break through. That's no secret. This team is a known commodity since it's been around and together so long.


Schultz only plays when Dale Rolfe is in the lineup?

maybe i'll put him in next game for you!

veteran teams shouldn't have fragile egos. especially a team that was on the cusp of a cup finals

i might play devil's advocate or even Diabolus himself and ask if after covid, road trip and injuries last season, did Barry lose his ability? the guy got dealt a bad hand and got jobbed in not getting a chance to return with a level deck of cards

 

[Mike C]

Why should Lou have any position in the organization at all if he was fired as GM? Thank him for what he did for the Islanders and send him on his way.

the sentimentalist in me says out of respect for his restoration of credibility to the franchise and in homage to his legacy in NHL history, give him an office and a desk he can kick his feet up on and sip a scotch on the rocks and let him just watch the sunset out the window but your point is well taken!

 

[redbull]

Either goal (rebuild/retool) requires an upgrade at the GM position, IMHO. They also need a better coach, and the right GM to choose that coach.

There are two cores--the one just reaching its prime and the aging out of prime years. It's really a dichotomy of cores. I'd build from Sorokin out; Barzal, Dobson, and Pelech are keepers. If they are going to give it another go next season, they'll likely hang on to the aging core (e.g. Nelson/Lee). Bottom line, this team needs more talent. Talent (combined with work ethic, of course) always wins out; mediocrity/inadequacy eventually rears its ugly face (we are seeing that). Whomever is GM has a lot of work ahead of them this offseason, that is, if this organization wants to contend for the Cup.

Agreed about Barzal; he's a low-tier 1C/elite 2C. I don't see him transcending that. Put a Timo Meier on his wing, and he'll be a ppg center; that's as far as I go with his ceiling. A year ago I already came to terms that he can't carry a team.

Team speed needs an overhaul. I'd love a Jason Robertson to emerge on this team. Don't see one in the pipeline. Bedard? Dufour needs to work on his footspeed, ditto Raty. Wahlstrom is inching closer and closer to a middle-6 scorer. He doesn't have the separation quickness and doesn't know where to go in the offensive zone to use his best asset. Snipers find the soft spots; in his case, I see him meandering around as if he doesn't know how to use open ice.

Doesn't feel like a playoff team to me. They are mediocre, they need help in many ways.

really like this post BI. The footspeed is interesting to me since I see it two distinct ways and it speaks to team identify and philosophy. The vast majority of players lack one of size/speed/hockey sense. I don't believe you can teach hockey sense - BUT young players often need time to adjust to the NHL speed/size/physicality/lack of time/space. This is where the Wahlstrom/Raty/Holmstrom/Dufour fall. A fast player without much hockey-sense can adjust quickly but be severely limited in overall game/impact/offense. The Leafs' Kerfoot is a great example, runs around accomplishes nothing but can be a good checker. The Islanders don't have many of these types (not sure if good or bad) so they look like a slower team than most.

The non-speedsters need time and it doesn't always work. Boeser started off great in VAN and now he's kinda regressed, but that team sucks and is toxic so who knows what a change of scenery would do. i'm not sure how much of Wahlstrom is not knowing where to go to score vs. just time-to-adjust - can't tell. Raty seems really raw, Dufour got screwed by the coach.

Barzal's strength/footspeed give him way too much time/space but he clearly cannot capitalize on that time/space, even though he has great vision/passing, he doesn't seem to have that THIS IS HOW WE SCORE mentality. Tavares is a great example of this, he's a terrible skater, doesn't really have a great shot, but seems to be able to get pucks into places where offense happens. I think that's why he worked so well with lesser players like Moulson/Lee/Bailey/Boyes and he's said the same about a player like Jarnkrok - play a predictable game. Barzal is the opposite of this. "I'll just keep circling and look for another option" usually resulting in puck possession but very few high-danger chances for himself or linemates. Seems like he's an off-the-rush player playing in a system suited to a off-the-cycle net-front game. Not sure how you fix this with the current roster.

Their overall size/speed and playing a Trotz like system though, that was impressive in the playoffs. This team seems nothing like that team even though the personnel is mostly the same. Maybe it's injuries but I think it's coaching and trying to become a different team with personnel that isn't suited.

Tough to see how ineffective some of the players are. I know Bailey's invisible and has regressed, and he will NOT get better. I love Lee but he doesn't work with Barzal and I don't think Nelson is the right guy either. Do you move on from these guys and try a younger-FASTER type? Tough to play a fast style with very slow-footed defense and many of the forwards. Seems messy. Maybe I'm over-thinking this but if they weren't so good in the playoffs a few years ago I'd be all-in for a total re-build. I feel they are still too good for that, with a lot of really good "younger-core" as you stated.

I'd consider moving Barzal. I think he's got HUGE market value for those who don't watch him closely. I was disappointed they never considered a Barzal-Eichel type move, but Eichel was hurt and hasn't really been spectacular either. Laine has really regressed. I don't think guys like Huberdeau/Gaudreau can really carry a team, same for a guy like Kadri who capitalized on a great season in Colorado - not sure who a good fit would be for Barzal but impact players are hard to find, but getting the right style of player is equally critical.

 

[Glorydays22]

Either goal (rebuild/retool) requires an upgrade at the GM position, IMHO. They also need a better coach, and the right GM to choose that coach.

There are two cores--the one just reaching its prime and the aging out of prime years. It's really a dichotomy of cores. I'd build from Sorokin out; Barzal, Dobson, and Pelech are keepers. If they are going to give it another go next season, they'll likely hang on to the aging core (e.g. Nelson/Lee). Bottom line, this team needs more talent. Talent (combined with work ethic, of course) always wins out; mediocrity/inadequacy eventually rears its ugly face (we are seeing that). Whomever is GM has a lot of work ahead of them this offseason, that is, if this organization wants to contend for the Cup.

Agreed about Barzal; he's a low-tier 1C/elite 2C. I don't see him transcending that. Put a Timo Meier on his wing, and he'll be a ppg center; that's as far as I go with his ceiling. A year ago I already came to terms that he can't carry a team.

Team speed needs an overhaul. I'd love a Jason Robertson to emerge on this team. Don't see one in the pipeline. Bedard? Dufour needs to work on his footspeed, ditto Raty. Wahlstrom is inching closer and closer to a middle-6 scorer. He doesn't have the separation quickness and doesn't know where to go in the offensive zone to use his best asset. Snipers find the soft spots; in his case, I see him meandering around as if he doesn't know how to use open ice.

Doesn't feel like a playoff team to me. They are mediocre, they need help in many ways.

This post is SPOT ON! We need team speed desperately. All our top prospects don't have that. Average to below average skating/speed in Raty, Dufour and Wally.

Couldn't agree with you more on Brazal as well. We know now he can't carry a team. He's a 1Ca/ top2C on a good team. But you can't get rid of him because of his skill.

I see Wally,Dufour and Raty as at best 2nd liners but probably 3rd liners. This is because of the speed and speratation they don't have. Our organazation has to change our philosophy when drafting going forward. Speed, speed and high skills for our forwards. For now, forget the trying to find a two-way grinder can we?

 

[Throttle]

really like this post BI. The footspeed is interesting to me since I see it two distinct ways and it speaks to team identify and philosophy. The vast majority of players lack one of size/speed/hockey sense. I don't believe you can teach hockey sense - BUT young players often need time to adjust to the NHL speed/size/physicality/lack of time/space. This is where the Wahlstrom/Raty/Holmstrom/Dufour fall. A fast player without much hockey-sense can adjust quickly but be severely limited in overall game/impact/offense. The Leafs' Kerfoot is a great example, runs around accomplishes nothing but can be a good checker. The Islanders don't have many of these types (not sure if good or bad) so they look like a slower team than most.

The non-speedsters need time and it doesn't always work. Boeser started off great in VAN and now he's kinda regressed, but that team sucks and is toxic so who knows what a change of scenery would do. i'm not sure how much of Wahlstrom is not knowing where to go to score vs. just time-to-adjust - can't tell. Raty seems really raw, Dufour got screwed by the coach.

Barzal's strength/footspeed give him way too much time/space but he clearly cannot capitalize on that time/space, even though he has great vision/passing, he doesn't seem to have that THIS IS HOW WE SCORE mentality. Tavares is a great example of this, he's a terrible skater, doesn't really have a great shot, but seems to be able to get pucks into places where offense happens. I think that's why he worked so well with lesser players like Moulson/Lee/Bailey/Boyes and he's said the same about a player like Jarnkrok - play a predictable game. Barzal is the opposite of this. "I'll just keep circling and look for another option" usually resulting in puck possession but very few high-danger chances for himself or linemates. Seems like he's an off-the-rush player playing in a system suited to a off-the-cycle net-front game. Not sure how you fix this with the current roster.

Their overall size/speed and playing a Trotz like system though, that was impressive in the playoffs. This team seems nothing like that team even though the personnel is mostly the same. Maybe it's injuries but I think it's coaching and trying to become a different team with personnel that isn't suited.

Tough to see how ineffective some of the players are. I know Bailey's invisible and has regressed, and he will NOT get better. I love Lee but he doesn't work with Barzal and I don't think Nelson is the right guy either. Do you move on from these guys and try a younger-FASTER type? Tough to play a fast style with very slow-footed defense and many of the forwards. Seems messy. Maybe I'm over-thinking this but if they weren't so good in the playoffs a few years ago I'd be all-in for a total re-build. I feel they are still too good for that, with a lot of really good "younger-core" as you stated.

I'd consider moving Barzal. I think he's got HUGE market value for those who don't watch him closely. I was disappointed they never considered a Barzal-Eichel type move, but Eichel was hurt and hasn't really been spectacular either. Laine has really regressed. I don't think guys like Huberdeau/Gaudreau can really carry a team, same for a guy like Kadri who capitalized on a great season in Colorado - not sure who a good fit would be for Barzal but impact players are hard to find, but getting the right style of player is equally critical.

I like this guy.

1) You either have to overhaul the entire roster on a wing and a prayer to cater to Barzal and hope he gels with someone… OR

2) Trade him for a more structured player that can work with the current players and those coming up. [I stated this earlier in the year as the path]

Btw, Laine hasn’t regressed. Much like Barzal, the league has figured him out. He’s lazy, doesn’t put in the effort to get into scoring position. He was cherry picking in his first two years a strong offensive squad AND he was new so teams were adjusting to his game. Now, they know. He hasn’t adjusted.

Brett Hull and Pasta are/were not the best skaters, but they knew/know where to go to be in scoring position to maximize their abilities. A Barzal doesn’t want to do it (or mentally can’t). MacKinnon did. Laine is similar mentally to Barzal.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Seems like botta is forgetting that trotz didn’t have it in him to give coaching 100% this year.

Everything regarding Trotz is speculation. I don't believe anything that Botta is saying, but I wouldn't fully commit to saying he didn't want to coach this year either.

 

[Big L]

Everything regarding Trotz is speculation. I don't believe anything that Botta is saying, but I wouldn't fully commit to saying he didn't want to coach this year either.

He had coaching options this year (Winnipeg for one) and he didn’t take it. I’d say that’s a pretty clear indication he didn’t want to coach. Also there was a recent report that trotz and Lou talk weekly. So maybe end of last season Barry told Lou he’s not 100% and is going to resign and lou did him a solid and said I’ll fire you instead to collect your salary and do what you gotta do. Thanks for all you did, we’ll keep in touch.

Certainly just as plausible as bottas BS and any other speculation out there.

 

[Lame Lambert]

He had coaching options this year (Winnipeg for one) and he didn’t take it. I’d say that’s a pretty clear indication he didn’t want to coach. Also there was a recent report that trotz and Lou talk weekly. So maybe end of last season Barry told Lou he’s not 100% and is going to resign and lou did him a solid and said I’ll fire you instead to collect your salary and do what you gotta do. Thanks for all you did, we’ll keep in touch.

Certainly just as plausible as bottas BS and any other speculation out there.

Maybe he just didn't want to coach in Winnipeg? He's still getting paid so I'm sure he's in no rush to make a decision. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think it's such a black and white answer.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

i think Lou needs to be removed from any hockey making decisions and be given a figurehead position. if he balks at that then fire him the way he fired Barry and call it a day

His contract expires he doesn’t need to be fired.

The question was, would he hire a figure head or a real GM with autonomy and ultimate decision making power? I get the sense that Lou likes control, thus, he'd likely hire someone he can strongly influence. Just my speculation.

I don’t think an experienced guy comes here without full control so we will see I guess. I don’t think either way Lou is back as GM even if team turned it around and won cup I still think he retires.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Maybe he just didn't want to coach in Winnipeg? He's still getting paid so I'm sure he's in no rush to make a decision. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think it's such a black and white answer.

I for one think it’s pretty much 50/50 trotz ever coaches again. Could he be candidate to take over for Lou as GM, I mean it’s sort of strange but I guess that’s plausible but I don’t see him coaching this team next season. Lou was pretty bland when they fired him just said team needs new voice so who knows.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

He had coaching options this year (Winnipeg for one) and he didn’t take it. I’d say that’s a pretty clear indication he didn’t want to coach.

Well, it's a clear indication he didn't want to coach in Winnipeg, at least.

 

[BelovedIsles]

really like this post BI. The footspeed is interesting to me since I see it two distinct ways and it speaks to team identify and philosophy. The vast majority of players lack one of size/speed/hockey sense. I don't believe you can teach hockey sense - BUT young players often need time to adjust to the NHL speed/size/physicality/lack of time/space. This is where the Wahlstrom/Raty/Holmstrom/Dufour fall. A fast player without much hockey-sense can adjust quickly but be severely limited in overall game/impact/offense. The Leafs' Kerfoot is a great example, runs around accomplishes nothing but can be a good checker. The Islanders don't have many of these types (not sure if good or bad) so they look like a slower team than most.

The non-speedsters need time and it doesn't always work. Boeser started off great in VAN and now he's kinda regressed, but that team sucks and is toxic so who knows what a change of scenery would do. i'm not sure how much of Wahlstrom is not knowing where to go to score vs. just time-to-adjust - can't tell. Raty seems really raw, Dufour got screwed by the coach.

Barzal's strength/footspeed give him way too much time/space but he clearly cannot capitalize on that time/space, even though he has great vision/passing, he doesn't seem to have that THIS IS HOW WE SCORE mentality. Tavares is a great example of this, he's a terrible skater, doesn't really have a great shot, but seems to be able to get pucks into places where offense happens. I think that's why he worked so well with lesser players like Moulson/Lee/Bailey/Boyes and he's said the same about a player like Jarnkrok - play a predictable game. Barzal is the opposite of this. "I'll just keep circling and look for another option" usually resulting in puck possession but very few high-danger chances for himself or linemates. Seems like he's an off-the-rush player playing in a system suited to a off-the-cycle net-front game. Not sure how you fix this with the current roster.

Their overall size/speed and playing a Trotz like system though, that was impressive in the playoffs. This team seems nothing like that team even though the personnel is mostly the same. Maybe it's injuries but I think it's coaching and trying to become a different team with personnel that isn't suited.

Tough to see how ineffective some of the players are. I know Bailey's invisible and has regressed, and he will NOT get better. I love Lee but he doesn't work with Barzal and I don't think Nelson is the right guy either. Do you move on from these guys and try a younger-FASTER type? Tough to play a fast style with very slow-footed defense and many of the forwards. Seems messy. Maybe I'm over-thinking this but if they weren't so good in the playoffs a few years ago I'd be all-in for a total re-build. I feel they are still too good for that, with a lot of really good "younger-core" as you stated.

I'd consider moving Barzal. I think he's got HUGE market value for those who don't watch him closely. I was disappointed they never considered a Barzal-Eichel type move, but Eichel was hurt and hasn't really been spectacular either. Laine has really regressed. I don't think guys like Huberdeau/Gaudreau can really carry a team, same for a guy like Kadri who capitalized on a great season in Colorado - not sure who a good fit would be for Barzal but impact

Not trying to pigeon hole these players, but you inspired me to project. In the case of Wahlstrom, he lacks the footspeed and hockey sense. That will limit his ceiling. As you noted, he doesn't have the time and space he had in the USHL; he hasn't adjusted b/c he doesn't have the raw tools to (IQ, mobility). Raty is raw. Lacks the mobility, but that can be worked on; his agility looks good. He has the brains too to be a solid 2C; he seems to know where to be in all three zones. Holmstrom has good mobility, an active pokecheck, a decent brain, but lacks skill; that will limit his ceiling. Think he'll be a 'nice' third liner in this league. Dufour lacks the mobility, but has the IQ, size, and a good skill. He's a wildcard IMHO. If he can add a few gears to his mobility, he can become a great late-round steal. None of these players move the needle much for me. Time will tell; they all are missing key ingredients.

Just to add re: Barzal. I sense that he doesn't have much confidence in his scoring ability, hence why he shies away from high-danger areas. He has good reason, his shot, though accurate isn't heavy. He also lacks something in the IQ dept. He doesn't know how to maximize his gifts. He is elite around the perimeter, but doesn't know when to pass v. drive to the slot area. v. shoot He would truly benefit from a creative, smart, skilled player who can read him well. Again, with his whirling dervishing, he's a tough one to play off of. He had his greatest success with Ebs. Ebs is gifted at reading the offensive play developing, and adjusting what he does. Smart offensive player. In an ideal world, I'd want an elite version of Ebs on Barzal's wing. Even in watching Ebs in SEA, he works so well with McCann in particular.

Yup, completely agree re: coaching. I questioned the same this training camp--can Lambert Ln. execute his system with this personnel. It worked in terms of defensive output, as a whole, the team isn't talented enough.

Yup, I think they can eek out another year from this roster, but clearly, significant changes need to be made this offseason if they are to be considered playoff threats. The overall talent must be upgraded, but does the GM have the cap flexibility to do so? I've said it so many times, but Lou put himself in this position with the plethora of middle-6'ers he has eating space, and his inability to move out salary, sans Ladd. Also, he should've done everything possible to keep Toews (e.g. pawn Leddy off). His mobility/skill/gap control from the backend is sorely needed; and overall, he's a very good D man.

BTW, you should post more often, redbull. From what I recall, you were/are one of the most knowledgeable, insightful, and level headed around here.

 

[redbull]

Not trying to pigeon hole these players, but you inspired me to project. In the case of Wahlstrom, he lacks the footspeed and hockey sense. That will limit his ceiling. As you noted, he doesn't have the time and space he had in the USHL; he hasn't adjusted b/c he doesn't have the raw tools to (IQ, mobility). Raty is raw. Lacks the mobility, but that can be worked on; his agility looks good. He has the brains too to be a solid 2C; he seems to know where to be in all three zones. Holmstrom has good mobility, an active pokecheck, a decent brain, but lacks skill; that will limit his ceiling. Think he'll be a 'nice' third liner in this league. Dufour lacks the mobility, but has the IQ, size, and a good skill. He's a wildcard IMHO. If he can add a few gears to his mobility, he can become a great late-round steal. None of these players move the needle much for me. Time will tell; they all are missing key ingredients.

Just to add re: Barzal. I sense that he doesn't have much confidence in his scoring ability, hence why he shies away from high-danger areas. He has good reason, his shot, though accurate isn't heavy. He also lacks something in the IQ dept. He doesn't know how to maximize his gifts. He is elite around the perimeter, but doesn't know when to pass v. drive to the slot area. v. shoot He would truly benefit from a creative, smart, skilled player who can read him well. Again, with his whirling dervishing, he's a tough one to play off of. He had his greatest success with Ebs. Ebs is gifted at reading the offensive play developing, and adjusting what he does. Smart offensive player. In an ideal world, I'd want an elite version of Ebs on Barzal's wing. Even in watching Ebs in SEA, he works so well with McCann in particular.

Yup, completely agree re: coaching. I questioned the same this training camp--can Lambert Ln. execute his system with this personnel. It worked in terms of defensive output, as a whole, the team isn't talented enough.

Yup, I think they can eek out another year from this roster, but clearly, significant changes need to be made this offseason if they are to be considered playoff threats. The overall talent must be upgraded, but does the GM have the cap flexibility to do so? I've said it so many times, but Lou put himself in this position with the plethora of middle-6'ers he has eating space, and his inability to move out salary, sans Ladd. Also, he should've done everything possible to keep Toews (e.g. pawn Leddy off). His mobility/skill/gap control from the backend is sorely needed; and overall, he's a very good D man.

BTW, you should post more often, redbull. From what I recall, you were/are one of the most knowledgeable, insightful, and level headed around here.

superb post. Though we're all guessing/projecting, and easy to fall in love with our own analysis, a lot of this makes sense. Every fan base has decades of experience watching promising young players NOT reach their maximum upside - YET - we all act somehow surprised when a player tops out as a 10G/30pt flawed 3rd line winger. Even the ones better than that (like Beauvillier, on a losing team, is vilified for not being more than he was (maybe unfairly) projected to be.

Finding and developing (whatever the ratio) high-end talent is really difficult, so best to have as many 1st/2nd round chances as possible, and maybe this is the year to try and re-build that flow of younger players, in the hopes of getting lucky and landing a Jason Robertson surprise.

On Lou: we all know he values balance and team-first approach, why he falls in love with players like Pageau (and Sergei Brylin) and he never really liked the elite players (even in Toronto with Marner/Matthews/Nylander - never liked their sass/personality). Even Babcock would always shoot them down a notch early in their careers even though the pure skill level was superb. There was a story in the Athletic how Marner was GIVEN #16 when he wore #93 and loves that number, a subtle Lou-way of "i'm in charge here". Nylander eventually switched to #88 after Lou left - little things, maybe, but I feel Lou loves a team-first approach with no stars (though he had Brodeur and Nierdermayer/Elias all those years).

I wonder if this style of game gives an advantage to teams with elite players. Hard to say, really. The rules, lack of interference makes defense really hard and team structure maybe matters less when a single player (with elite skills) can dominate at times. I swear McDavid already has 100 highlight reel goals and I bet you Mario/Wayne never had that many, combined, in their career. I get he's faster, but the game's orders-of-magnitude harder for big/slow defensemen and the Isles have plenty of those. They were good in a Trotz system but look so exposed. I know it was one game, but the Leafs had 6-7 breakaways and odd-man rushes, effortlessly. And I don't think they even played well, they only had a good 2nd period.

All that said: I hope Lou can make some moves and shift his philosophy more towards today's game. Sorokin is 25-30yrs later what Luongo/DiPietro were supposed to be, don't waste it. And either try to maximize Barzal or trade him for another elite player, which is totally plausible.

Curious how this goes!

 

[MJF]

On Lou: we all know he values balance and team-first approach, why he falls in love with players like Pageau (and Sergei Brylin) and he never really liked the elite players (even in Toronto with Marner/Matthews/Nylander - never liked their sass/personality). Even Babcock would always shoot them down a notch early in their careers even though the pure skill level was superb. There was a story in the Athletic how Marner was GIVEN #16 when he wore #93 and loves that number, a subtle Lou-way of "i'm in charge here". Nylander eventually switched to #88 after Lou left - little things, maybe, but I feel Lou loves a team-first approach with no stars (though he had Brodeur and Nierdermayer/Elias all those years).

But when it was time for the Devils to win Lou got them Mogilny and then Kovalchuk.

I think Lou builds the team’s foundation with that team first approach. The elite player is his finishing touch.

 

[Throttle]

superb post. Though we're all guessing/projecting, and easy to fall in love with our own analysis, a lot of this makes sense. Every fan base has decades of experience watching promising young players NOT reach their maximum upside - YET - we all act somehow surprised when a player tops out as a 10G/30pt flawed 3rd line winger. Even the ones better than that (like Beauvillier, on a losing team, is vilified for not being more than he was (maybe unfairly) projected to be.

Finding and developing (whatever the ratio) high-end talent is really difficult, so best to have as many 1st/2nd round chances as possible, and maybe this is the year to try and re-build that flow of younger players, in the hopes of getting lucky and landing a Jason Robertson surprise.

On Lou: we all know he values balance and team-first approach, why he falls in love with players like Pageau (and Sergei Brylin) and he never really liked the elite players (even in Toronto with Marner/Matthews/Nylander - never liked their sass/personality). Even Babcock would always shoot them down a notch early in their careers even though the pure skill level was superb. There was a story in the Athletic how Marner was GIVEN #16 when he wore #93 and loves that number, a subtle Lou-way of "i'm in charge here". Nylander eventually switched to #88 after Lou left - little things, maybe, but I feel Lou loves a team-first approach with no stars (though he had Brodeur and Nierdermayer/Elias all those years).

I wonder if this style of game gives an advantage to teams with elite players. Hard to say, really. The rules, lack of interference makes defense really hard and team structure maybe matters less when a single player (with elite skills) can dominate at times. I swear McDavid already has 100 highlight reel goals and I bet you Mario/Wayne never had that many, combined, in their career. I get he's faster, but the game's orders-of-magnitude harder for big/slow defensemen and the Isles have plenty of those. They were good in a Trotz system but look so exposed. I know it was one game, but the Leafs had 6-7 breakaways and odd-man rushes, effortlessly. And I don't think they even played well, they only had a good 2nd period.

All that said: I hope Lou can make some moves and shift his philosophy more towards today's game. Sorokin is 25-30yrs later what Luongo/DiPietro were supposed to be, don't waste it. And either try to maximize Barzal or trade him for another elite player, which is totally plausible.

Curious how this goes!

I’ll give you some props for your thoughts, but mocking a team first guy that has 3 SC to a bunch of ‘me’ players that haven’t been out of the first round since they qualified when Wonder Woman appeared on the big screen is a bit disingenuous.

McEdmonton is an awesome player, he’s got zero team hardware to show for it to date (and probably not anytime soon).

Getting a little bent on YouTubers (the Isles have a special one) that aren’t doing much winning as a team. Maybe that’s what Old Man Lou is prioritizing. Absent COL winning last year, he’s been right for a couple of decades. Is COL a new normal in winning bc they competition they faced was hot garbage to win.

 

[redbull]

I’ll give you some props for your thoughts, but mocking a team first guy that has 3 SC to a bunch of ‘me’ players that haven’t been out of the first round since they qualified when Wonder Woman appeared on the big screen is a bit disingenuous.

McEdmonton is an awesome player, he’s got zero team hardware to show for it to date (and probably not anytime soon).

Getting a little bent on YouTubers (the Isles have a special one) that aren’t doing much winning as a team. Maybe that’s what Old Man Lou is prioritizing. Absent COL winning last year, he’s been right for a couple of decades. Is COL a new normal in winning bc they competition they faced was hot garbage to win.

I'd never mock Lou Lamoriello. First, we're both Italian and I'm also scared of him, and we share a fav restaurant in Toronto.

Also, Lynda Carter is a really hot Wonder Woman, regardless of decade.

I don't hold the team success against elite players, winning in the NHL is really hard. In basketball 1-2 players makes a huge difference, in baseball it doesn't really help, in tennis? yup - but Mario Lemieux missed the playoffs until his 5th year.

Say what you will about playoffs and elite talent, it's the biggest hole on this Islanders team except they have one at the most important position - in net.

The rest is a work in progress.