GDT: GDT #35 New York Islanders vs Buffalo Sabres | December 23rd | 7:30 PM | F/7-1 L

SI

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Message board justice, honorable profession. Message board coaching tactics pays well.

Sure, you shoot the puck at the net, 2/3 guys near the net seek to take the rebound and put it in. Rocket science. Except the D can’t hit the net and certain forwards want to play needle in a haystack to the detriment of the team.

If the PO has been crap Lou’s tenure, then maybe look at the players you think so highly of and maybe there’s AN answer there.

Just remember, you brought yourself into this considering you were ignoring me. Guess you were not.
You might need to draw it up, especially considering how sophisticated PK systems have become at suppressing shots and disrupting shooting lanes. In the scheme you’re presenting, where a team only has one or two legitimate shooting areas, it’s not particularly difficult for opponents to crack the system.

Class is over, you are going back on the "Pay you NO mind list"
 
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scottywiper

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I have an idea for PK. Make a wall like in soccer and line up five players across front of goals, side by side.
I'm joking of course! Lol. But it wouldn't be much less effective!!!
 

Rehabguy

In ROY I trust
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Getting back to the game- I decided not to even bother watch this one because like many of you I'm sure you had strong reason to believe they were going to lose this one. I knew they were going to lose this one because this game was a game by every measure they were expected to win and it was for that reason alone that I knew it would get into their heads and they would find a way to make the exact opposite happen.

The team is mentally weak. As predicted they let that little pressure of losing to the last place team that everyone is beating get to them. The horrors of losing to the worse team in hockey in front of their own fans got into their heads and they played the game doubting themselves the whole way. There is no killer instinct in this team. You have a team as bad as the Buffalo Sabres then you go in there and force the victory and beat that team into submission, but Lou's boy scout recruits had none of that in them.

The team is not lacking at all in the skills department, speed department, or youth department. It lacks character and thats all on the players (and Lou for assembling such a team). The team has to understand that sport is a safe way to be at war. Sport is simply war with all safeguards in place so no one really gets hurt. But with the way this team plays the game, there's no way I would feel comfortable going to war with them at my side. The idea is to beat the other side without actually killing them. It's war. They need to act like it. Protect their goaltender. Batter the opposition. Overwhelm the opposition. They can't do this if they continue to play like sissies or worrying about hurting the other player's feelings. Attack and intimidate those players like they are your worse enemy and shake hands afterwards. I read that they lost the game 7-1 against the last placed team. In any time during those events did any player drop the gloves or throw a big hit to stop the bleeding or to get the momentum change? I bet not. It's all in their heads.
 
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Torrey Redux

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Getting back to the game- I decided not to even bother watch this one because like many of you I'm sure you had strong reason to believe they were going to lose this one. I knew they were going to lose this one because this game was a game by every measure were expected to win and for that reason alone I knew it would get into their heads and they would find a way to make the exact opposite happen. The team is mentally weak. As predicted they let that little pressure of losing to the last place team that everyone is beating get to them. The horrors of losing to the worse team in hockey in front of their own fans got into their heads and they played the game doubting themselves the whole way. There is no killer instinct in this team. You have a team as bad as the Buffalo Sabres then you go in there and force the victory and beat that team into submission, but Lou's boy scout recruits had none of that in them. The team is not lacking at all in the skills department, speed department, or youth department. It lacks character and thats all on the players.
Third oldest team in the league according to Elite Prospects. As for the other two, what, they can't score and they skate slowly because they lack character and mental toughness? That's a new one.

Looks like the analytics boys have a challenge on their hands to quantify that.
 

Rehabguy

In ROY I trust
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Third oldest team in the league according to Elite Prospects. As for the other two, what, they can't score and they skate slowly because they lack character and mental toughness? That's a new one.

Looks like the analytics boys have a challenge on their hands to quantify that.
Did they look like they skated slow or couldn't score just a game before the last?

The Oilers, Leafs, Hurricane, Wild, Devils, and Lightning are some of the oldest teams in the league with the Oilers leading the list. The Islanders are smack dab exactly where they should be for a competitive team and if you just took out the two outliers in Varlamov and Martin they skew down that list a bit. These older teams are also some of the top teams in the league with the worse in the league being some of the youngest most notably the team they played last night the Sabres.

At the very moment AGE nor skating ability has nothing to do with the Islanders difficulties. The Oilers are older than the Islanders by average age do you see any problems with their skating. The Hurricanes are nearly the same age as the Islanders by average do you see any problems with their skating?
 

Torrey Redux

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I didn't say I have confidence in him, that's just the only way he sticks around. He was one of my favorite players but this is really tarnishing his legacy for me.
You want to keep him around despite not having confidence in him because you liked him as a player?! C'mon man.

As for his legacy, his legacy as a player cannot be tarnished. He is one of the best ever and nothing he has done or will do as an Islander in whatever capacity will change that. Remember Gretzky coaching Phoenix? He's still the Great One.
 

Rehabguy

In ROY I trust
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The fact that we lost is not the troubling part. Buffalo is an NHL team with many skilled players, in fact, a better roster than the Isles IMO, so they were not going to lose forever. If we had been in the game against a team desperately trying to head into the break with something positive and lost by a goal or took it to OT that would have been one thing but not what we saw tonight.
Buffalo is worse team in hockey and that youthful team that has been rebuilding for decades with futility following your model has always been at the bottom the league. You blast the Islanders for their current record following a string of critical injuries and yet give a pass to a youthful "skilled team" for losing 13 straight games commenting that they were not going to lose forever? And the old and skill lacking Isles are going to lose forever? Is that your prediction?

The team has issues. No one is denying that.

What I have a hard time reading is all the cherry picking. Oh, the team performs better when Barzal is out of the lineup- until it doesn't. Oh, Roys a terrible coach but leaves out he's missing key players and half the defense for most of the season thus far. I wasn't a fan of either Trotz or Lambert but I blamed neither for situations that were out of their control.

Look at the roster Roy had for the past 15 games or so and you are going to seriously blame them for having a losing record. Really? What's with that?
 
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MJF

Fire Lou
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Whatever the roster weaknesses are, and there are plenty, does not give Roy a pass. His comments about his lack of attention to the PK alone - and the results of that lack of attention - are reason enough to question his coaching ability and decision making. Ultimately, this was a hit and hope hire by Lou of a guy who had been out of the league for 8 years and with only 3 years of NHL head coaching experience before that. The bottom line is that he has done nothing to instill confidence in me that he should be the guy going forward, either upstairs or behind the bench.
The Islanders are a bad team. Patrick Roy is a poor coach. Both can be true.
 

MJF

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I didn't say I have confidence in him, that's just the only way he sticks around. He was one of my favorite players but this is really tarnishing his legacy for me.
Roy’s legacy as a player is what we hoped would translate behind the bench. It isn’t happening. Roy will join the ranks of Wayne Gretzky and Bryan Trottier as Hall of Fame players who were bad head coaches.
 
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BelovedIsles

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Yeah, so I really don’t want to read playoff talk.

Edit: OMFG, enough of this Roy diatribe. The roster is mediocre as mediocre could be.
 
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Rehabguy

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The Islanders are a bad team. Patrick Roy is a poor coach. Both can be true.
Are we all now willing to admit replacing Snow with Lamiorello was a terrible decision very few here have a leg to stand on. I mean seriously folks this is what it all boils down to. All these problems began the moment he became GM of this team. Everyone gave this guy the Caesar victory parade when he came in that somehow he returned respectability to this franchise. What good has he done? Either you like what he did or you don't. He built this team. He hired all these coaches. He made this purported mess of things. These not only can be true but ARE true.

Will some of you admit the hiring of Lou Lamiorello as GM of the Islanders was a horrible decision? Or are you going to all let your blind hatred for Snow get in the way of the truth and rationalize your way out of this? I'm sure I'm only a few clicks away from hearing all the Kool Aid packages being ripped open. You can't have it both ways. Lou created this mess- YOU brought him in.

We can stay away from all the dumb rash decisions if we see things for what they are. The team is not so bad. Patrick Roy is not a poor coach. They start with that and fix what they can fix. The last time we made rash decisions the billboards came up and for some of you you got exactly what you deserved. Me, I'm holding onto my gut instinct that tells me Roy will pull this team out of this funk.
 
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xECK29x

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Are we all now willing to admit replacing Snow with Lamiorello was a terrible decision very few here have a leg to stand on.
Someone needs to step away from the eggnog. I'll give Snow credit for building a solid core of players and honestly drafting well above his weight for the most part. That culture shift needed to happen, I won't trade those playoff rounds under Lou/Trotz for anything, that's the most success I've seen as a fan (86 YOB)
 

Rehabguy

In ROY I trust
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Someone needs to step away from the eggnog. I'll give Snow credit for building a solid core of players and honestly drafting well above his weight for the most part. That culture shift needed to happen, I won't trade those playoff rounds under Lou/Trotz for anything, that's the most success I've seen as a fan (86 YOB)
Well I can appreciate your enthusiasm for a couple of late series wins but I would absolutely trade those playoff rounds under Lou/Trotz for an actual Stanley Cup Final birth (68 YOB 4 years prior to the Islanders inception). My experience with team is if a different standard.

The culture shift has brought us the results that you see today. Do you like what you are looking at? I mean is there really any way around it? We should have never hired this guy. Just making it past the 2nd round twice is not worth what we have going on today. We needed someone with a long term vision for this team. Lou was clearly not that guy.

Best we can do is take the little good that he did like the Romanov + George trade, the hiring of Roy and the promise that Eiserman and Tsyplakov show and run with it. It's too late to turn back now. That's what I can't stand reading through the past few weeks. Oh let's just burn the whole thing down and rebuild from scratch. That's exactly what Snow did but you guys are clearly not capable of handling such a situation so let's not even go there. Trust me guys, I'm not trying to rile you all up. This is just the god awful truth. Most of you guys cannot handle a total rebuild based on how you responded to Snow. The team is not even that bad right now and look how some of you are handling it.

Building a solid core of players and drafting well above their weight is exactly what we should expect of any GM. That's primarily what they should be doing. As you admit Snow did this. Has Lamiorello? NO
 
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xECK29x

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Well I can understand your enthusiasm to at the very least sniff the Stanley Cup Finals. But I would absolutely trade those playoff rounds under Lou/Trotz for an actual Stanley Cup Final birth (68 YOB 4 years prior to the Islanders inception)

The culture shift has brought us the results that you see today. Do you like what you are looking at?
The team that was one game away from the SCF but you would trade that away? This makes no sense. Of course the current state isn't great it doesn't mean those years weren't! As long as you consistently make the playoffs you have a shot. Zero people on Earth had the LAK or STL winning the cup the years they did.
 

MJF

Fire Lou
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Are we all now willing to admit replacing Snow with Lamiorello was a terrible decision very few here have a leg to stand on. I mean seriously folks this is what it all boils down to. All these problems began the moment he became GM of this team. Everyone gave this guy the Caesar victory parade when he came in that somehow he returned respectability to this franchise. What good has he done? Either you like what he did or you don't. He built this team. He hired all these coaches. He made this purported mess of things. These not only can be true but ARE true.
No we are not willing to admit replacing Snow with Lamoriello was a terrible decision. The organization was a joke before Lou got here. Lou changed the culture of the organization and made this a place that players wouldn't fly the coop like John Tavares did. If things were so bad here. Barzal and Horvat don't resign. Especially Bo who bought what Lou was selling and signed for 8 years without ever having set foot on Long Island.

You can like what Lou did up to a point. This is not an all or nothing proposition. Lou had successes here that included hiring Barry Trotz...the right coach for a team that was low on talent and easy to play against. Trotz remains the only coach to get his roster to outperform the level of their talent.

The problem with Lou's tenure on the Island is what I've said all along, doubling down on a team that went to the semi-finals twice, not winning a Stanley Cup, instead of realizing that was as good as they were going to get, and he needed to improve the talent on the team. Instead Lou botched the way he handled contract extensions during the flat cap COVID years by giving long term contracts to middle of the lineup players. As a result he painted himself into a salary cap corner.

So in essence the Islanders got to a crossroads after the 2022 season and Lamoriello chose the wrong road, giving the benefit of the doubt to a team that had some playoff success and thinking COVID was a one off season. The trouble is that team he gave a second chance wasn't a championship team and needed to be improved on. And it went south from there.

You can be right until you are wrong. Lou made a wrong judgement call that came with disastrous results. That doesn't mean his hiring was a mistake right from the start.
 
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Torrey Redux

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Buffalo is worse team in hockey and that youthful team that has been rebuilding for decades with futility following your model has always been at the bottom the league. You blast the Islanders for their current record following a string of critical injuries and yet give a pass to a youthful "skilled team" for losing 13 straight games commenting that they were not going to lose forever? And the old and skill lacking Isles are going to lose forever? Is that your prediction?

The team has issues. No one is denying that.

What I have a hard time reading is all the cherry picking. Oh, the team performs better when Barzal is out of the lineup- until it doesn't. Oh, Roys a terrible coach but leaves out he's missing key players and half the defense for most of the season thus far. I wasn't a fan of either Trotz or Lambert but I blamed neither for situations that were out of their control.

Look at the roster Roy had for the past 15 games or so and you are going to seriously blame them for having a losing record. Really? What's with that?
The license you take with the things I have written and your tortured logic makes it virtually impossible to respond. I give Buffalo a pass? When did I do that? I predict that the Islanders are going to lose forever because Buffalo wasn't going to. I don't even know what you are talking about. Where do you come up with such nonsense?

If you want to believe that the Islanders are a contending team with sufficient talent to do just that but have been victimized by injuries to a greater degree than other teams, have at it. But you might want to take a look at the entire leagues injury report before you do that. It's the NHL and every team deals with injuries. The good ones have built in enough depth and have enough structure to weather the storm. The Islanders are not one of those teams.
 

Rehabguy

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No we are not willing to admit replacing Snow with Lamoriello was a terrible decision. The organization was a joke before Lou got here. Lou changed the culture of the organization and made this a place that players wouldn't fly the coop like John Tavares did. If things were so bad here. Barzal and Horvat don't resign. Especially Bo who bought what Lou was selling and signed for 8 years without ever having set foot on Long Island.

You can like what Lou did up to a point. This is not an all or nothing proposition. Lou had successes here that included hiring Barry Trotz...the right coach for a team that was low on talent and easy to play against. Trotz remains the only coach to get his roster to outperform the level of their talent.

The problem with Lou's tenure on the Island is what I've said all along, doubling down on a team that went to the semi-finals twice, not winning a Stanley Cup, instead of realizing that was as good as they were going to get, and he needed to improve the talent on the team. Instead Lou botched the way he handled contract extensions during the flat cap COVID years by giving long term contracts to middle of the lineup players. As a result he painted himself into a salary cap corner.

So in essence the Islanders got to a crossroads after the 2022 season and Lamoriello chose the wrong road, giving the benefit of the doubt to a team that had some playoff success and thinking COVID was a one off season. The trouble is that team he gave a second chance wasn't a championship team and needed to be improved on. And it went south from there.

You can be right until you are wrong. Lou made a wrong judgement call that came with disastrous results. That doesn't mean his hiring was a mistake right from the start.
You are not being totally honest here. Can you admit that the team that made it to those two ECF's was constructed by Snow? So how was this organization a joke? A lot of what you write is just all the false mystique that was Lou Lamiorello. An over rated over the hill never should have been GM of the New York Islanders.

You take the good with the bad. You look at the entirety of a person's work and judge from there. Snow made a lot of good decisions that built the core team that made those ECF's. Rebuilding a team as we all admit now takes years. Snow built a solid core only to watch Lou decimate it in 3 short years.

And if it has not been decimated. What the hell are y'all complaining about? I've been saying that the team is not as bad as people think it is. Most of the problem is their mental approach to the game. That can be fixed but it will take Roy time.

The license you take with the things I have written and your tortured logic makes it virtually impossible to respond. I give Buffalo a pass? When did I do that? I predict that the Islanders are going to lose forever because Buffalo wasn't going to. I don't even know what you are talking about. Where do you come up with such nonsense?

If you want to believe that the Islanders are a contending team with sufficient talent to do just that but have been victimized by injuries to a greater degree than other teams, have at it. But you might want to take a look at the entire leagues injury report before you do that. It's the NHL and every team deals with injuries. The good ones have built in enough depth and have enough structure to weather the storm. The Islanders are not one of those teams.
Yeah that pretty much sums it up.
 

MJF

Fire Lou
Sep 6, 2003
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You are not being totally honest here. Can you admit that the team that made it to those two ECF's was constructed by Snow? So how was this organization a joke? A lot of what you write is just all the false mystique that was Lou Lamiorello. An over rated over the hill never should have been GM of the New York Islanders.

You take the good with the bad. You look at the entirety of a person's work and judge from there. Snow made a lot of good decisions that built the core team that made those ECF's. Rebuilding a team as we all admit now takes years. Snow built a solid core only to watch Lou decimate it in 3 short years.

And if it has not been decimated. What the hell are y'all complaining about? I've been saying that the team is not as bad as people think it is. Most of the problem is their mental approach to the game. That can be fixed but it will take Roy time.
If you can’t recognize that the joke of an organization the Isles were ranged from incompetent owners-one who was a fraud, general managers who had no business being GMs, the constant threat of moving off of the Island, etc all if which combined made the Islanders toxic to other players and cost the team a generation of fans, then there’s no point continuing this dialogue. I’m not going to keep arguing in circles.

Happy holidays..
 

Torrey Redux

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Someone needs to step away from the eggnog. I'll give Snow credit for building a solid core of players and honestly drafting well above his weight for the most part. That culture shift needed to happen, I won't trade those playoff rounds under Lou/Trotz for anything, that's the most success I've seen as a fan (86 YOB)
This is a great post. It reminds people such as myself who have been around a little bit longer - a lot actually - and who have been extremely critical of Lou's full tenure perspective on why you feel the way you do.
 

Rehabguy

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I'm not saying he has, at all, the success they had was from a roster and draft picks made by Snow and world-class coached by Trotz.
I agree that the limited success he had was with Trotz, but even then Trotz in my opinion was not necessarily the best choice but for some of you just making past the 2nd round was a sign of great success. That's not success for this grizzled Islander fan. Back in Dynasty days as any Islander fan who grew up with those teams would have told you those were abject failures to achieve the goal every team has in mind.

Ideally Lou would have hired Roy 5 years ago when it was young and had fresh legs. Man, that would have been something to watch. But to watch the last two playoff appearances under Trotz was so anti-climatically depressing to watch. It was just horrible. The team sitting on a 1 goal lead or making no real attempts to force a comeback in the last 2 Hurricane playoff series under Trotz was miserable to watch. This is when the mental disability the team is dealing with right now all started. This play not to lose, focus on keeping the puck to the perimeter nonsense all began. THIS, is not worth what we are watching today.

Both Trotz and Lou were way overrated by Islander fans. At the very least Lou recognized that Trotz did not have it in him to take the team all the way because like me, he had higher standards, but then he makes the mistake of hiring his apprentice and then doing a 180 and hiring a guy with complete opposite approach to the game and hoping for immediate results. We are not going to get them folks. It's going to take Roy time if he is given more time.

If you can’t recognize that the joke of an organization the Isles were ranged from incompetent owners-one who was a fraud, general managers who had no business being GMs, the constant threat of moving off of the Island, etc all if which combined made the Islanders toxic to other players and cost the team a generation of fans, then there’s no point continuing this dialogue. I’m not going to keep arguing in circles.

Happy holidays..
Yet your avatar says "Fire Lou". If he brought all this respectability to the organization why does your avatar say that? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. That's my point. Malkin and Ledecky brought stability and respectability to this franchise not Lou. Snow had nothing to do with the ownership circus or string of bad GMS this team had to deal with. Let's all get that straight #1, and #2 when Ledecky and Malkin fire Lou they will bring respectability back to this franchise.
 
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Rehabguy

In ROY I trust
Oct 2, 2011
5,248
2,070
This is a great post. It reminds people such as myself who have been around a little bit longer - a lot actually - and who have been extremely critical of Lou's full tenure perspective on why you feel the way you do.
And I really pity you guys that this is all you got from this franchise. I was serving cocktails to Bryan Trottier at the North Hills Country Club as a teenage server in 1985 a couple of years after their Cup runs. Good times.

Anyways, I agree it is almost X-mas. Let's make sure to continue to get along here. Happy Holidays to all and to all a good night.
 

xECK29x

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I agree that the limited success he had was with Trotz, but even then Trotz in my opinion was not necessarily the best choice but for some of you just making past the 2nd round was a sign of great success. That's not success for this grizzled Islander fan. Back in Dynasty days as any Islander fan who grew up with those teams would have told you those were abject failures to achieve the goal every team has in mind.

Ideally Lou would have hired Roy 5 years ago when it was young and had fresh legs. Man, that would have been something to watch. But to watch the last two playoff appearances under Trotz was so anti-climatically depressing to watch. It was just horrible. The team sitting on a 1 goal lead or making no real attempts to force a comeback in the last 2 Hurricane playoff series under Trotz was miserable to watch. This is when the mental disability the team is dealing with right now all started. This play not to lose, focus on keeping the puck to the perimeter nonsense all began. THIS, is not worth what we are watching today.

Both Trotz and Lou were way overrated by Islander fans. At the very least Lou recognized that Trotz did not have it in him to take the team all the way because like me, he had higher standards, but then he makes the mistake of hiring his apprentice and then doing a 180 and hiring a guy with complete opposite approach to the game and hoping for immediate results. We are not going to get them folks. It's going to take Roy time if he is given more time.
I feel like you are one of those posters where if the team went 82-0 you would still find faults. It's just not worth spending the energy. Find something else that brings you joy.
 

Nassau Revisited

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Jun 16, 2017
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Are we all now willing to admit replacing Snow with Lamiorello was a terrible decision very few here have a leg to stand on. I mean seriously folks this is what it all boils down to. All these problems began the moment he became GM of this team. Everyone gave this guy the Caesar victory parade when he came in that somehow he returned respectability to this franchise. What good has he done? Either you like what he did or you don't. He built this team. He hired all these coaches. He made this purported mess of things. These not only can be true but ARE true.

Will some of you admit the hiring of Lou Lamiorello as GM of the Islanders was a horrible decision? Or are you going to all let your blind hatred for Snow get in the way of the truth and rationalize your way out of this? I'm sure I'm only a few clicks away from hearing all the Kool Aid packages being ripped open. You can't have it both ways. Lou created this mess- YOU brought him in.

We can stay away from all the dumb rash decisions if we see things for what they are. The team is not so bad. Patrick Roy is not a poor coach. They start with that and fix what they can fix. The last time we made rash decisions the billboards came up and for some of you you got exactly what you deserved. Me, I'm holding onto my gut instinct that tells me Roy will pull this team out of this funk.
I hope I am reading this post wrong… are you saying Snow was a good GM.

We all agree Lou must go but he did help bring some credibility during the transition to the new arena and gave us 3 good seasons. He has been loyal to a fault to this roster and needs to retire
 

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