GDT: GDT #14 New York Islanders @ Ottawa Senators | November 7th | 7:00 PM | F/W 4-2

[Rehabguy]

It certainly seems like the new first line is playing well, so might as well keep them together. But to use their temporary three-game success against weak opponents to suggest the team is better without Barzal is bizarre. The Oilers have won a few games without McDavid, Kings without Doughty, and the Leafs without Matthews, I guess that means those teams are better without their best players too?
If there's a Barzal trade that makes the team better, who wouldn't be for it, but trying to force a trade because people think the team is better without him is a poor way to build a strong team.
Assuming the first line continues to find success, it makes sense to try Barzal centering Duclair as a line 3 to see how it works out.

Was just going to write the same thing. So bizarre. How long did it take them to build a team around Crosby and McDavid. Barzal is neither of those but he's the best we got so why the heck would anyone think of trading him? As Leeroggy pointed out nothing wrong with being open about such possibilities but unless you are certain of getting a Turgeon for a LaFontaine you stay put or risk getting a Kirk Muller for a Turgeon which is more likely the situation. The only types of players we would get are players unhappy with their contract situation or locker room cancer. Those type players as skilled as they may be don't help this team. Barzal is happy playing for the Islanders and without Trotz/Lambert there to stymie his game he looks to be a perennial 80+ point player. He shouldn't be going anywhere.

 

[doublechili]

Assuming the first line continues to find success, it makes sense to try Barzal centering Duclair as a line 3 to see how it works out.

Duclair - Barzal - Holmstrom seems like it might be a complimentary combo. And we're saying "3C", but if those were Barzal's line mates the team would really have 3 pretty equal lines. Just give the extra ice time to the line that's hot at any given time.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Hutton

So having Barzal in the line up is a liability. Is that the new take?

Quite possibly our top points getter and a pivotal player come any playoff season when this team had some success in the playoffs and we want to trade the guy.

You want to know why we never have any good players? Because we frigging trade them!

Leddy, Eberle, Toews, now you want to trade Barzal?

What the F is wrong with everybody?

An unleashed Barzal gets 80 points last season +30 points playing hockey the right way and we want to let him go? The problem for Barzal was the systems he was required to play under the past 6 years not his ability. Under Roy him and the rest of the team will be fine performing up to their full potential.

yep, gotta trade Barzal because we beat the senators, penguins, and sabres lmao. could have lost any one of those games but we didn't and now it's time to part with our most dynamic player

 

[impaaaaaact]

Duclair - Barzal - Holmstrom seems like it might be a complimentary combo. And we're saying "3C", but if those were Barzal's line mates the team would really have 3 pretty equal lines. Just give the extra ice time to the line that's hot at any given time.

The issue there is that no one can take face-offs. I honestly don't hate playing Maclean with them... he was great as a winger last season, can take most of the draws which he is apparently incredible at now, can keep up with those two in terms of foot speed about as well as anyone else, and should be pretty sound defensively. Keep Engvall-Casey-Holmstrom together, that's a totally fine fourth line

 

[Throttle]

Hutton

yep, gotta trade Barzal because we beat the senators, penguins, and sabres lmao. could have lost any one of those games but we didn't and now it's time to part with our most dynamic player

But ya didn’t breat lowly Anaheim and Columbus with him…so, yeah, there’s something there.

Dynamic has equated to not much of anything, but everyone else is to blame for it.

In 2022, the Isles went 14-7-2 without Barzal to make the playoffs. Know what their record was when he returned?

In 2024, the lowly Isles are 3-1 without Barzal … so far.

 

[Rehabguy]

But ya didn’t breat lowly Anaheim and Columbus with him…so, yeah, there’s something there.

Dynamic has equated to not much of anything, but everyone else is to blame for it.

In 2022, the Isles went 14-7-2 without Barzal to make the playoffs. Know what their record was when he returned?

In 2024, the lowly Isles are 3-1 without Barzal … so far.

By the end of last year the Islanders had a much better record without Sorokin between the pipes and it was Varly who got us in the playoffs. Do you suggest we trade him too?

The tops playoff performers the past 6 post seasons:

Barzal 45 points
Nelson 43 points

Pageau 27 points
Palmieri 26 points
Lee 21 points
Horvat 5 points

Yeah, let's trade him. Top points getter for the Isles in the regular and post-season. Beyond ridiculous.

 

[Throttle]

By the end of last year the Islanders had a much better record without Sorokin between the pipes at it was Varly who got us in the playoffs. Do you suggest we trade him too?

Nope, but that’s because your logic is faulty. He could have been a problem contract going forward, IF he didn’t recover and it looks like his injury impacted his play.

The Isles have 8 seasons of Barzal to know what you have and how it’s working out. Paying $9M to a center that can’t take faceoffs (a critical role of being a center) and the team plays .750 without you…that’s not so ‘special’ of a player.

 

[Big L]

Isles have a better record with Romanov and Riley out as well? Better get rid of them, too.

 

[Rehabguy]

Nope, but that’s because your logic is faulty. He could have been a problem contract going forward, IF he didn’t recover and it looks like his injury impacted his play.

The Isles have 8 seasons of Barzal to know what you have and how it’s working out. Paying $9M to a center that can’t take faceoffs (a critical role of being a center) and the team plays .750 without you…that’s not so ‘special’ of a player.

6 of those seasons were under a defense above all things coach. The statistic you really need to look at is:

Barzal under under Trotz/Lambert: averages 45 points a season
Barzal under any other coach: averages 80 points a season

Trotz was a horrible coach to play under for an offensive minded player. Absolutely horrible. He nearly ruined Barzal's career. Probably ruined Wahlstroms. Forget Ho-Sang he didn't even get a shot.

Look I get it. Two ECF's is fun to watch but its not a Stanley Cup, nor is it even making the championship finals. Thinking that's some sort of success is a loser mentality. As Roy would sarcastically say, "Oh you made the ECF, big cheer". I'll give him some points and respect for getting the team that far but it was at TOO much of a cost for this team psyche and Roy is working and night and day to reverse the damage that was done. The team has to learn how to play simple hockey again and most importantly how to go on the offense again. It's a game of scoring points. Its a game of skating and moving forwards NOT backwards! You watch his drills and that's what he's doing. It's all about skating and attacking.

And I absolutely love the move he made in bringing up Isaiah George. He brings up a 20 year old kid unstymied by backwards coaching- the only player who was not coached at all under the Trotz/Lambert and he makes him a model for the rest of the team to watch by giving him lots of minutes even critical minutes. He says, look, here's a kid who keeps skating and just takes off as soon as he has the puck in his possession and is not afraid to take chances. He uses his natural instincts and athleticism to make things happen. Roy is just brilliant. He says just watch this kid and see how simple the game can be. Just move your damn feet and head towards the net.

The problem with this team was coaching, not the players. It's a team sport. The team is guided by a system. They were clearly playing under a system that completely hobbled each individual's natural scoring instincts. Roy needs to change the mindset of this team and he knows it. Retreating and playing on their heels because they think they are not good enough to compete is a loser mentality but that is what Trotz said his team was. He said the defense was not as bad as they thought it was and the offense was not as good as they thought it was so they were going to sit back and retreat as soon as they got a small lead then hang on for dear life. It was too much of a loser mentality and they got hammered with this mentality for 6 years.

The team has to believe in itself. It will just take a little more time, but they will make the playoffs and who knows where they go from there. Roy thinks like a champion because he IS a champion and has personally led two franchises to win several championships. I trust this guy. Accepting 2 ECF as some form success is a loser mentality. We should expect more from this team as I am sure Roy is thinking the same.

You watch this video and you will understand how a champion thinks:

 

[seafoam]

I thought Mayfield had a great game last night. Kept Tkachuk in check and did a lot of the dirty work for the defense. He's the Silvio Dante of the defense.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854892469453811972

 

[impaaaaaact]

But ya didn’t breat lowly Anaheim and Columbus with him…so, yeah, there’s something there.

Dynamic has equated to not much of anything, but everyone else is to blame for it.

In 2022, the Isles went 14-7-2 without Barzal to make the playoffs. Know what their record was when he returned?

In 2024, the lowly Isles are 3-1 without Barzal … so far.

You still haven’t responded to my question of how Barzal could lower the rest of the team’s shooting percentage, even when he’s off the ice. They were shooting 6% with him in, 10+ with him out… as a team, cumulatively.

Any further analysis besides Barzal = Bad?

 

[Strummergas]

You trade any player to make the team better, even if you have to cry yourself to sleep the night of the deal. Barzal is not necessarily the primary reason this team ails at times, but he's also not able singlehandedly carry them to victory either. Therefore, if the right deal presents itself, you pack his (or anyone's) bags and wish him well.

I'd have no problem moving any player on this roster not named Sorokin at this point.And depending on the return, he could go too. It just doesn't seem like it would be worth it though.

 

[impaaaaaact]

You trade any player to make the team better, even if you have to cry yourself to sleep the night of the deal. Barzal is not necessarily the primary reason this team ails at times, but he's also not able singlehandedly carry them to victory either. Therefore, if the right deal presents itself, you pack his (or anyone's) bags and wish him well.

I'd have no problem moving any player on this roster not named Sorokin at this point.And depending on the return, he could go too. It just doesn't seem like it would be worth it though.

I agree. Who do you think you get that upgrades the team by trading Barzal? Tkachuk gets tossed around a lot, but I think we add something not unsubstantial to get that done.

 

[Strummergas]

I agree. Who do you think you get that upgrades the team by trading Barzal? Tkachuk gets tossed around a lot, but I think we add something not unsubstantial to get that done.

I'm not a GM, nor do I pretend to be, so I'll leave that assessment up to the professionals. I will say that I would not want him moved for futures, unless they were going full tear-it-down rebuild.

 

[Rehabguy]

You trade any player to make the team better, even if you have to cry yourself to sleep the night of the deal. Barzal is not necessarily the primary reason this team ails at times, but he's also not able singlehandedly carry them to victory either. Therefore, if the right deal presents itself, you pack his (or anyone's) bags and wish him well.

I'd have no problem moving any player on this roster not named Sorokin at this point.And depending on the return, he could go too. It just doesn't seem like it would be worth it though.

No single player can carry a team to victory nor should that be a litmus test for why a player should be traded or signed to a ridiculous contract. Trotz just blew his wad on 111 million dollars worth of high end fire power this summer and he’s already contemplating about doing a full rebuild on his league wide last place team. I’m sure for every one of those trades he was making them with the intention to “make the team better” though I doubt he was crying himself to sleep. Every GM in this league makes trades to purportedly make their teams better. Who doesn’t? Be careful what you wish for.

Sad state of affairs regarding Trotz. As soon as he is GM of the Predators he announces he wants to introduce an offensive minded system that is opposite of the very one he preached on the Island and hires a coach who is all about offense. He claimed that the defensive minded systems are out of touch in today’s game and he wanted his fans to watch exciting hockey with a modern system because after all the fans are here for entertainment and we are “in the business of entertainment”. I’ll give him credit for finally realizing this but geez 5 years too late to get a clue Barry and Islander fans are paying for it. Thanks for everything. The Preds are going through the very same thing the Islander players are going through saying that they are struggling right now because the idea of playing an offense minded game is so foreign to them.

Any of the struggles the Islanders are having right know are all mental. Whether it be turtling or not driving to the net or not making quick transitions to create offense or just being creative and using their athleticism. They have to knock the old way of thinking completely out of their psyche. The solution is NOT trading Barzal. He IS part of the solution.

I thought Mayfield had a great game last night. Kept Tkachuk in check and did a lot of the dirty work for the defense. He's the Silvio Dante of the defense.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854892469453811972

Always liked Mayfield but that contract a little questionable

 

[Strummergas]

No single player can carry a team to victory nor should that be a litmus test for why a player should be traded or signed to a ridiculous contract. Trotz just blew his wad on 54 million dollars worth of high end fire power this summer and he’s already contemplating about doing a full rebuild on his league wide last place team. I’m sure for every one of those trades he was making them with the intention to “make the team better” though I doubt he was crying himself to sleep. Every GM in this league makes trades to purportedly make their teams better. Who doesn’t? Be careful what you wish for.

Sad state of affairs regarding Trotz. As soon as he is GM of the Predators he announces he wants to introduce an offensive minded system that is opposite of the very one he preached on the Island and hires a coach who is all about offense. He claimed that the defensive minded systems are out of touch in today’s game and he wanted his fans to watch exciting hockey with a modern system because after all the fans are here for entertainment and we are “in the business of entertainment”. I’ll give him credit for finally realizing this but geez 5 years too late to get a clue Barry and Islander fans are paying for it. Thanks for everything. The Preds are going through the very same thing the Islander players are going through saying that they are struggling right now because the idea of playing an offense minded game is so foreign to them.

Any of the struggles the Islanders are having right know are all mental. Whether it be turtling or not driving to the net or not making quick transitions to create offense or just being creative and using their athleticism. They have to knock the old way of thinking completely out of their psyche. The solution is NOT trading Barzal. He IS part of the solution.

Always liked Mayfield but that contract a little questionable

What the f*** did my post have to do with Trotz? Your response is another typical attempt to forward your nonsensical garbage agenda. Feel free to never respond to me again.

 

[Rehabguy]

What the f*** did my post have to do with Trotz? Your response is another typical attempt to forward your nonsensical garbage agenda. Feel free to never respond to me again.

It's my weave. Pure genius. Only a select few of us can sputter seemingly nonsense and actually have a point. But to your point of "you trade any player to make the team better." Trotz spent 111 million dollars this past summer and his team is last in the league now contemplating a rebuild after only a handful of games. Trotz had every intention of making his team better. That didn't amount to shit in his case.

 

[Throttle]

You still haven’t responded to my question of how Barzal could lower the rest of the team’s shooting percentage, even when he’s off the ice. They were shooting 6% with him in, 10+ with him out… as a team, cumulatively.

Any further analysis besides Barzal = Bad?

Why does shooting percentage matter when the record without him in the lineup is 17-7-2 under two different coaches with roughly the same players on the roster?

This is one of those ‘look at these stats, it tells me something that I want to see.’

This team needs to play a simple based on its roster construction. That’s what you get (and wins) when he’s not in the lineup.

Right now, a 17-7-2 record without your $9M ‘talent’ doesn’t look very flattering.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Why does shooting percentage matter when the record without him in the lineup is 17-7-2 under two different coaches with roughly the same players on the roster?

This is one of those ‘look at these stats, it tells me something that I want to see.’

Right now, a 17-7-2 record without your $9M ‘talent’ doesn’t look very flattering.

No it isn’t lmao puck luck is a real thing. Shooting percentage normalizes over the course of a season. it's a sticky stat and always has been. I would argue that that's actually what you're doing but we can go back and forth forever if we want

The entire team was shooting poorly over the 10 games which lead to way less goals than you would expect. They lost multiple 1 goal games over that period. Stats like that actually do matter, a lot. They keep you from overreacting to small samples

btw, the reason you're not taken very seriously by a good portion of the posters here is because you do things like put talent in quotations while talking about a player who scored 80 points last season lmao. the record over those games is definitely something to think about and I think it has more to do with other players feeling they need to step up rather than Barzal being so terrible that his presence on the roster alone turns them from a president trophy contender to a lower third team, even when he's not on the ice. it simply does not make sense

 

[Throttle]

The record speaks louder than any other stat. You can spend all day looking for underlying stats to support your feelings, the record is clear.

If Isles go 3-10-2 while Barzal is out, then noticeably his importance could be perceived as much higher, but right now (and doubtful) the Isles swan during his injury.