Gary Bettman close to 5 year extension to remain commissioner of NHL through end of 2027 season

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hahahahaha


I can’t believe you actually cited ads being “everywhere” and high ticket prices in the same breath.

you can’t have zero ads and low ticket prices. Yikes.

who gives a shit about ads anyway. (ad deals are good)

I mean I actively stop watching when things get too ad-heavy. For example, I cannot, like actually cannot watch an NFL game because of the ads. As for the NHL I've had to start muting the game/listen to music or whatever during the game because I get so sick of being advertised to throughout the game. So thanks to ads, as a fan my engagement is lowering to the point where I've already started skipping watching some NHL games because of it. I don't think I'm alone in that regard too, there comes a breaking point where A) the advertisements are so numerous that people tune them out (For example, I couldn't tell you a single advertiser that is ever on the boards... I just 100% don't notice them... ditto the helmets) or people get so sick of them that they stop watching/engaging with the sport.

It's diminishing returns after a certain point... and to top it all off it's all going to fund people who are already so ridiculously wealthy that even if they bled 100 million dollars a year they still would be able to own comfortably an NHL team for likely the rest of their lives AND their children's lives... with little impact to their current lifestyle.

So long story short, the ads make the game uglier, worse, and less engaging all so that Billionaires can buy a second yacht. Ads suck. (Some ads are fine, this obsession with cramming ads into every second of the sport sucks)
 
I can remember as a little kid, I didn’t like hockey until I saw Gary bettman hand out the Stanley cup. That changed everything for me and made me a fan. That and the all the new advertisers Gary brought in. Wow what a sport, thanks Gary!!

^^^ this is what I think your earliest hockey memories are if you say dumb shit like “he’s grown the sport” “so good for the game”
So what is your reasoning for hating him? You say it’s “dumb shit” when it is objectively true, so let’s hear you refute it or sit down and be quiet.
 
It's still hilarious that very people understand that the reason the owners love him, and want him around is BECAUSE the fans hate him so much. Nobody pays attention to the owners themselves or what they're doing, Bettman is a lightning rod, which is exactly what the owners pay him for and why he's been around so long.

If the commissioner was liked by fans, they would not be doing their job.
 
What has he done tog row the game? 3 lockouts (including a full season) would suggest otherwise.

RE southern expansion the only southern teams added during his tenure are Nashville and Phoenix... with the latter being a money hemorrhaging disaster. I guess Vegas too but thats more on Foley than him.
 
No, he has a direct hand in helping fund arenas, player salaries, recouping losses from canceled games… etc All that affects ticket pricing.
He has a direct hand in salaries insofar as the league comes up with a salary cap, but that's based on previous years revenue. So that's a chicken and the egg argument, his office sets the salary cap based on the revenue, but also sets the revenue? There's no blame in here for the players constantly using the escalator to jack the cap up because they want more money? Other than that, he has no direct hand in player salaries, that's between the GM and the agents.

Selling out does not mean get rid of sponsorships… so point out where I say get rid of all sponsorships…


It just so happens that there is 80+ years where the NHL existed with a healthy level of sponsorship and reasonable ticket prices…

You're liking posts that admit that with increased sponsorships, ticket prices won't go down - because once the owners have a hook in, they aren't going to throw that free money away. Why is arena funding different in your mind? EDM paid for a big portion of our new arena, it's still like $200-300 per ticket in the lower bowl. Empirically, the city funded the arena and we get no obvious lowering of tickets. Am I meant to believe that if we didn't fund the arena, tickets would be double?

The only thing he helps with, in respect to funding, is the ability to hold city councils hostage with the threat of relocation and the sooner a city calls his bluff, the better. In most cases, nowithstanding ARI, the league isn't signing contracts with cities to fund arenas. Our deal was between OEG (Katz) and the City of Edmonton. All he did was get people in a room and insinuate that the team would be moved (it wouldn't have but we had a spineless mayor who got kickbacks to take the deal). I don't see how any of that is relevant to ticket pricing, owners want to maximize their bottom line and will charge whatever their market will bear. Look at the differences between pricing in Canada and pricing in the southern US, there is no standardized price, it's just whatever they can get for the tickets. Cities with huge waitlists like Toronto get absolutely drained while places barely selling out have tickets that go for like $35USD.

The mechanism to recoup losses is called escrow, the players eat that for taking more than 50% of the league revenue.

As for the bold, I mean, yeah... there was 80+ years where the world existed with a healthy level of pricing. Look around, nothing is reasonably priced anymore. Housing, food, fuel, utilities, travel, transportation - everything is jacked up all around us. This is what happens when you print infinite money, it becomes worth less and less and less. Not sure how this is inherently a Bettman issue, take this up with your local government and tell them to turn the Fed off.

Most of what you have citied is not directly influenced by Bettman. He creates the framework for cities to fund arenas, the framework of a salary cap (in partnership with the NHLPA), but he isn't in the room with these GMs while they take their team right to the salary cap. I highly doubt he is calling up some team to demand they price their tickets higher on Ticketmaster. These teams are independent businesses, he is not involved in their operations, he just facilitates the sandbox they play in.

Do you believe ticket prices would be lowered if every team was run like Arizona and existed near the cap floor? Given the fact that you know and agree that ticket prices aren't going down with increased ad revenue, I think we can agree that you know they wouldn't drop with teams spending below the midpoint either.
 
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Can anyone here give an actually legitimate reason as to why this is a bad thing? People love to jump on the bandwagon to boo and disparage him, but he’s done a good job growing the sport and keeping it alive even throughout pandemic disrupted seasons.

What exactly are you looking for and expecting if not that?
Doing a good job doesn't mean you don't make glaring errors. A lot about the actual on ice product has gotten worse under his leadership.

I'm in the camp of calling the game by the book and shrinking goalie equipment so this essentially guarantees that won't happen till 2027.
 
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Something I didn't see brought up here that is beyond opinion of how he has been as a commissioner is his health. I remember a lot of speculation about him possibly having Parkinson's disease which his voice and physical shakiness that goes beyond just introvert/social awkwardness. I hope it's not the case but there was a few damning instances in public of him that something clearly wasn't right.

For the record, I think Gary has done a great job as commissioner thus far. A lot of criticism from him is out of his control in a few aspects imo and you'll never have a perfect guy running the show no matter what.
Has there anything to that aside from speculation? If he was in poor health I can't imagine he'd be inking a 5 year extension.
 
He has a direct hand in salaries insofar as the league comes up with a salary cap, but that's based on previous years revenue. So that's a chicken and the egg argument, his office sets the salary cap based on the revenue, but also sets the revenue? There's no blame in here for the players constantly using the escalator to jack the cap up because they want more money? Other than that, he has no direct hand in player salaries, that's between the GM and the agents.



You're liking posts that admit that with increased sponsorships, ticket prices won't go down - because once the owners have a hook in, they aren't going to throw that free money away. Why is arena funding different in your mind? EDM paid for a big portion of our new arena, it's still like $200-300 per ticket in the lower bowl. Empirically, the city funded the arena and we get no obvious lowering of tickets. Am I meant to believe that if we didn't fund the arena, tickets would be double?

The only thing he helps with, in respect to funding, is the ability to hold city councils hostage with the threat of relocation and the sooner a city calls his bluff, the better. In most cases, nowithstanding ARI, the league isn't signing contracts with cities to fund arenas. Our deal was between OEG (Katz) and the City of Edmonton. All he did was get people in a room and insinuate that the team would be moved (it wouldn't have but we had a spineless mayor who got kickbacks to take the deal). I don't see how any of that is relevant to ticket pricing, owners want to maximize their bottom line and will charge whatever their market will bear. Look at the differences between pricing in Canada and pricing in the southern US, there is no standardized price, it's just whatever they can get for the tickets. Cities with huge waitlists like Toronto get absolutely drained while places barely selling out have tickets that go for like $35USD.

The mechanism to recoup losses is called escrow, the players eat that for taking more than 50% of the league revenue.

As for the bold, I mean, yeah... there was 80+ years where the world existed with a healthy level of pricing. Look around, nothing is reasonably priced anymore. Housing, food, fuel, utilities, travel, transportation - everything is jacked up all around us. This is what happens when you print infinite money, it becomes worth less and less and less. Not sure how this is inherently a Bettman issue, take this up with your local government and tell them to turn the Fed off.

Most of what you have citied is not directly influenced by Bettman. He creates the framework for cities to fund arenas, the framework of a salary cap (in partnership with the NHLPA), but he isn't in the room with these GMs while they take their team right to the salary cap. I highly doubt he is calling up some team to demand they price their tickets higher on Ticketmaster. These teams are independent businesses, he is not involved in their operations, he just facilitates the sandbox they play in.

Do you believe ticket prices would be lowered if every team was run like Arizona and existed near the cap floor? Given the fact that you know and agree that ticket prices aren't going down with increased ad revenue, I think we can agree that you know they wouldn't drop with teams spending below the midpoint either.

I like posts that have good debates or I like some of things the poster said. I might like yours since you had paragraphs and a thought out post. As you will see. I don’t agree with all of it.

Bettman has yet to repeal the rule for 16000 seats needed for an NHL arena. That seat limit jacks up the price for tax payers to pay their share for a big add arena. The owner will raise whatever they need to break even. Yes Bettman has a role to play in pricing out the average Joe.

Inflation, yeah that can be used against Bettman revenue growth since 97 as well. Let’s not delve too far into politics.

Edmonton can’t double the price because it’s a pretty small city. Owner doesn’t have much wiggle room for pricing out demand.

Yes if teams were run like Arizona, meaning unstable ownership for a decade and a GM that just sold off most of his big pieces… yeah, ticket prices would go down because no one would show up. Toronto being the exception because, Leaf fans are going to Leaf fan.
 
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What has he done tog row the game? 3 lockouts (including a full season) would suggest otherwise.

RE southern expansion the only southern teams added during his tenure are Nashville and Phoenix... with the latter being a money hemorrhaging disaster. I guess Vegas too but thats more on Foley than him.
Carolina, Anaheim, Florida too
 
Controversial opinion here:

"Growing the game" doesn't mean necessarily what's best for hockey and the NHL. The game is in a terrible state despite being a bigger money maker than it ever was.
 
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I like posts that have good debates or I like some of things the poster said. I might like yours since you had paragraphs and a thought out post. As you will see. I don’t agree with all of it.

Bettman has yet to repeal the rule for 16000 seats needed for an NHL arena. That seat limit jacks up the price for tax payers to pay their share for a big add arena. The owner will raise whatever they need to break even. Yes Bettman has a role to play in pricing out the average Joe.

Inflation, yeah that can be used against Bettman revenue growth since 97 as well. Let’s not delve too far into politics.

Edmonton can’t double the price because it’s a pretty small city. Owner doesn’t have much wiggle room for pricing out demand.

Yes if teams were run like Arizona, meaning unstable ownership for a decade and a GM that just sold off most of his big pieces… yeah, ticket prices would go down because no one would show up. Toronto being the exception because, Leaf fans are going to Leaf fan.

Seats/Arena funding:
I think the big issue isn't a forced arena size, it's that tax payers shouldn't need to pay for an arena in the first place. Hotel owners don't require massive inflows of public cash to set up their buildings, neither do developers that build sky scrapers. These guys repaid a $360 million euro loan to build their stadium, 15.5 years prior to the loan actually being due. Granted they have some additional revenue avenues not available to NHL teams, but there was no public funding for this arena and you can get reasonably affordable tickets (assuming it's not a UCL match). I personally don't believe you need to have public funds in order to breakeven on these large capital projects, it's more that owners want to breakeven or have a payback period of less than 10 years. NA seems to be the only place where this insane requirement is put into widespread practice.

From a profitability stand point you are basically saying that despite the NHL's increased ad space and ticket prices, it's just to breakeven? Perhaps I misunderstood that part of your post, but I just don't see why this is one of the only sports that needs public investment and still has money issues. I think it's more likely that these billionaire owners, in most cases, run these teams like loss leaders, because owning the team is part of their brand (AEG/MLSE/etc) but also gives them huge tax breaks. IMO they use public funding to reduce the liability of owning the team and having a big decommissioning project in the future - with the exception of Toronto and NYR, these arenas are not really good long term investments. By having the cities own the arena's they can be free and clear to leave after the lease is up, which makes the city stuck in a perpetual cycle of hostage negotiation. If the team was stuck paying $2M in property tax every year out to infinity, they wouldn't be able to get in a room and threaten relocation unless they get more public funding when they need a new arena in 30 years.
At the end of the day, I think publicly funded arenas is more of leverage tactic in NA than a need to run the business profitably. The Oakland A's have no issues running a profitable (or at the very least, sustainable) business, they just don't win anything. In Canada, teams try to do both - max out spending, but also gouge the consumers because they have a monopoly on the city.​
IMO all of these things are driven by the owners, not Bettman and I don't think he has any say in ticket prices, or care - as long as the revenue sharing is happening and no one is insolvent.

Edmonton:
We had quite strong attendance in our decade of darkness, though in most places you could be right since Canada is not really the norm for ticket pricing and demand NHL wide. What you're saying about Arizona, in my mind that comes down to a team/org knowing it's locality and what they can charge with respect to the product they are putting on the ice. Which is a process that should happen without any input from Bettman. If the team sucks and isn't selling, the owner and his marketing/sales teams should already be implementing new pricing or marketing strategies. Unless they have supremely poor governance. NHL games are like airplanes, once the schedule is set, you need to sell out, empty seats is an opportunity cost.

Inflation:
Revenue growth has been quite strong, has it not? The cap has risen substantially since it has been introduced. Revenue growth happens because ticket prices are being jacked up though. Is that the owners coping with inflation, or being greedy? Hard to really tell.

I just think the majority of these points fall back on owners - breaking even, liability, profit, etc. Not Bettman. Bettman cares more about big picture - keeping the TV deals increasing and more overall viewership, expanding to new and large markets, growing the game, etc. Owners just care about their little fifedom, and IMO they leave the vision and NHLPA BS to him.
 
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2 lock outs outs because the owners who love him so much, hire gms who give ridiculous contracts and need to lock it out because they cant afford said contracts.

The Concussion issue with how the league wont say or do anything to really protect the players.

The coyotes.

Refs being a bigger joke every year.

Took forever to get a good tv deal in the usa.

But yea hes doing such a bang up job. :laugh:
 

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