Garth Snow Pt. III - Snow’s inactivity

[PK Cronin]

I've always wondered if Ledecky truly wants to be a hockey owner, or if he sees ownership more as an investment to flip at a later date to make money. He only hung on to his ownership stake of the Caps for like 3 years before flipping it for a profit, then went on to try and buy more sports franchises.

I imagine a lot of guys view it that way, especially with the Islanders because of the arena/real estate aspect to it. For a guy like Dolan, I imagine it's more for the novelty aspect than it is a business move, though they all help provide synergy.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I imagine a lot of guys view it that way, especially with the Islanders because of the arena/real estate aspect to it. For a guy like Dolan, I imagine it's more for the novelty aspect than it is a business move, though they all help provide synergy.

The concern (for you Isles fans) is that owners who see ownership as a way to flip an asset for a profit tend to care little for how well the team does, as long as the asset keeps appreciating in value for when they want to sell it. The owners who hang onto the team because they like being owners tend to have more pride in seeing their team win.

Look at the teams who have been successful. Almost all of them have owners who've been around for a long, long time. The teams who get sold every 5 years tend to be the ones who see instability in their performance.

 

[MJF]

Ledecky says GMs GM and owners own when asked 2 months ago on wfan about the team itself the gm...players...basically he said he doesnt do hockey..he does business deals...I dont have any quotes from him otherwise. I have alot of quotes from newsday from the minority owner who is still part owner who talks about the current GM...how great he is as a friend and GM. just google newsday snow and Wang. The story on newsday comes right up. Malkin doesnt do any interviews regarding the sport of hockey. So out of 3 owners you have 2 that dont say anything 1 thats says he loves Snow...and chris botta a well connected hockey guy and staple both insinuating Wang gave snow a long extension right before he gave up full control. If i sell my family business and the last day i gave my son a 7 year extension as manager...what does that tell you?

What Ledecky says on a radio show is one thing. How he runs his business behind closed doors is another. It’s patronizing and infuriating to have him cop out with that “players play, owners own” statement but I take it with a grain of salt.

 

[PK Cronin]

The concern (for you Isles fans) is that owners who see ownership as a way to flip an asset for a profit tend to care little for how well the team does, as long as the asset keeps appreciating in value for when they want to sell it. The owners who hang onto the team because they like being owners tend to have more pride in seeing their team win.

Look at the teams who have been successful. Almost all of them have owners who've been around for a long, long time. The teams who get sold every 5 years tend to be the ones who see instability in their performance.

I hope they view the arena as a profitable investment along with the shopping area, so they'll use that to make money. That would mean a good product to fill the arena and get people spending at those stores. Otherwise it might just be a quick flip...but it'd be weird to invest in all of the other areas they have if that were the case.

 

[aronjudge11]

If You think minority owners in business dont do anything then you should talk to people in the business world. Derek jeter kinda does alot as a minority owner. Anyone who owns a business from a pizza parlor to a hotel chain knows all thebowners have some input. Anyone whobposts that all hockey front office decisions are not involving Wang...please post proof. Anyone who has the contract selling the team that shows that kedecky runs the hockey team not wang please prove it. ledecky doesnt even run the ticket sales department...barcleys does. so nobody can claim ledecky didnt agree for wang to run the hockey department unless you have proof that he does...the only proof we can find online is wang said he loves snow...snow runs the team and no front ofgice changes were ever made. does anyone have proof ledecky runs the hockey department? if so lets see some quotes. i posted howbledecky says he doesnt get involved in hockey. anyone who says ledecky is just joking give us a quote...contract...a human being hired by ledecky...something please?

 

[Strait2thecup]

We realllllllly should have went after eric staal instead of ladd. That sucks

 

[PK Cronin]

If You think minority owners in business dont do anything then you should talk to people in the business world. Derek jeter kinda does alot as a minority owner. Anyone who owns a business from a pizza parlor to a hotel chain knows all thebowners have some input. Anyone whobposts that all hockey front office decisions are not involving Wang...please post proof. Anyone who has the contract selling the team that shows that kedecky runs the hockey team not wang please prove it. ledecky doesnt even run the ticket sales department...barcleys does. so nobody can claim ledecky didnt agree for wang to run the hockey department unless you have proof that he does...the only proof we can find online is wang said he loves snow...snow runs the team and no front ofgice changes were ever made. does anyone have proof ledecky runs the hockey department? if so lets see some quotes. i posted howbledecky says he doesnt get involved in hockey. anyone who says ledecky is just joking give us a quote...contract...a human being hired by ledecky...something please?

“I think it’s time [to step aside],” Wang said in an interview on Wednesday at the team’s practice facility in Eisenhower Park. “I’ve done everything I think I wanted to do. I put the franchise in good hands. Those guys [new majority owners Jonathan Ledecky and Scott Malkin] are good guys. Let them have their run....
During Wang’s tenure, the team made the playoffs seven times, winning only one playoff series. Wang will retain 15 percent of the team, but at age 71, he’s happy now to let go.
“I’m not going to keep an eye on it because it’s not mine,” he said. “It’s somebody else’s now. When I turned it over, yes, I wanted to stay a part of it. But now I don’t run the show.
“They paid dearly for the opportunity to screw it up their own way — and they will, I’m sure,” Wang said jokingly.

Wang happy with Isles, frustrated with town

That's a wrap for this. Don't bring it up again.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Wang happy with Isles, frustrated with town

That's a wrap for this. Don't bring it up again.

Link to nowhere.
How old is Wang's statement?

 

[Isles Junkie]

I saw the billboard this morning on my way to work. It's on Atlantic & Classon Ave for those who are curious.

 

[PK Cronin]

Link to nowhere.
How old is Wang's statement?

The link works, and it's from 2018. How often would you want a quote from a minority owner who isn't involved in the hockey operations?

Confused as to why you're even commenting. You think Wang is running the hockey operations?

 

[doublechili]

I saw the billboard this morning on my way to work. It's on Atlantic & Classon Ave for those who are curious.

A divorce for only $399? That's a good deal.

 

[doublechili]

If You think minority owners in business dont do anything then you should talk to people in the business world. Derek jeter kinda does alot as a minority owner. Anyone who owns a business from a pizza parlor to a hotel chain knows all thebowners have some input. Anyone whobposts that all hockey front office decisions are not involving Wang...please post proof. Anyone who has the contract selling the team that shows that kedecky runs the hockey team not wang please prove it. ledecky doesnt even run the ticket sales department...barcleys does. so nobody can claim ledecky didnt agree for wang to run the hockey department unless you have proof that he does...the only proof we can find online is wang said he loves snow...snow runs the team and no front ofgice changes were ever made. does anyone have proof ledecky runs the hockey department? if so lets see some quotes. i posted howbledecky says he doesnt get involved in hockey. anyone who says ledecky is just joking give us a quote...contract...a human being hired by ledecky...something please?

Granted we don't have your connections....

 

[NewYorkIsles]

A divorce for only $399? That's a good deal.

Can it help me get divorced with my abusive relationship with the Islanders?

 

[Kevin27NYI]

do you look at the roster in isolation? try comparing the roster to the top teams in the East and see if you still feel the same.

And remember, all teams have prospects and picks. The Flyers have one of the best prospect pools in hockey and already have several young stars on the roster (Provorov, Couturier, Ghostisbere, Sanheim, Patrick) - there are so many other teams with great prospect pools and even higher upside than what the Isles have coming.

I don't see who's not already at/close to their max upside on this roster.

Maybe Barzal has another level, but he could also have a set-back like other young stars have. Both Lee and Bailey had career years. Maybe Leddy bounces back. And then what?

It's a not-so-young, not-so-great roster with no elite prospects and nobody who can make an impact next year, on defense or in goal, their two areas of serious weakness.

Not even a new coach or GM or both can help that. Not by next year.
And that's assuming Tavares re-signs. You remove Tavares, deHaan, Hickey, Kulemin, Halak and this team looks totally dreadful.

Beauvillier Barzal Eberle
Lee Nelson Bailey
Ladd Cizikas Clutterbuck
Johnston Wagner Fritz
Prince Quine Ho-Sang

Leddy Boychuk
Pelech Pulock
Davidson Mayfield
Toews

Greiss
Gibson

Have a look at that roster and please share the optimism you see.

This is a realistic roster, give or take a potential (overpaid) UFA to fill whatever cap space is available. And based on Garth's history, anyone expecting more is setting up for disappointment. Again.

Well yeah, you picked worse case scenario by removing all UFA and then left team as is.

Anywho, I liked the development of Beauviller, Pulock and Barzal (obviously) from game 1 to 70 or wherever we are now. Those are first rounders, key first rounders. Their continued progress bodes well for next year. There's a decent chance we keep our entire top 6 intact next year hinging on JT.

Lee-Tavares-Bailey
Beauviller-Barzal-Eberle

Even if Barzal doesn't go PPG next year (step back like you said) 65 points (82 game season) is still incredible. Puts us hard against a team like Washington (Backstorm+Kuznetsov) competitively.

But to do into an offseason where you're worry is the bottom 6, not the top 6, you're ahead. That's just one area but all things considered you have a positive thing going.

Ladd-X-X
Wagner-Cizikas-Clutterbuck
Johnston

Let Quine/Prince go, call up Ho-Sang for the RW spot, maybe drop Ladd to the 4th line and have Bellows. Trade Nelson for a different more impactful center that doesn't need points but needs to help in the 200 ft space. On offense you're making one move pretty much. Nelson is an asset too so you're not losing, he can be traded for a first rounder theoretically or help on D. If Val Flip was brought in as your 3C, now we're cooking.

So offensive production should continue to be a strength. I feel like I wasted time, we all knew that, I'm just brain shot right now, been up since 5 am studying sorry. You're assuming no JT, I am. Ok.

Defense. Are we going to shuffle decks on the on titanic? We know from Lebrun Snow talked to Chyka about OEL. Here's what I see:

Nelson is done, there's an asset. We have 4 picks in the top 62 of the 2018 draft and our first and second in the 2019 draft. We can take hits here. The conversation has happened, the player is still available and assets are there for the taking. I think a deal gets done. Get the rights to that goalie too. Pay assets for them to take Greiss. Rantta, OEL and Flipula in for Nelson, Halak and de Haan makes the team better. There was nothing unrealistic in this. Snow sits on his hands sure, but when he failed in 13-14 he went out and fixed depth, got two top 4 dmen and a goalie who set the wins record for the Isles. The cap space is still flexible, the assets are there and we know he's had conversations for dmen and goaltenders.

If you can pay a second rounder for Arizona to take Greiss, even retaining some money, you sign Gibson to be the backup at 650k and take advantage of a backups salary for once. Sign Rantta to a 4/5 year deal worth 20 million or so. Halak money.

You picked your lineup, I'll have mine.

Lee-Tavares-Bailey
Beauviller-Barzal-Eberle
Ladd-Flippula-Ho-Sang
Wagner-Cizikas-Clutterbuck
Johnston

OEL-Pelech
Leddy-Boychuk
Davidson-Pulock
Mayfield

Rantta-Gibson
(Toews call up/Aho call up)


My issue relies in leadership. Would really love someone with a loud voice in the room. Coaching is still an issue.

 

[Glory Days]

Can it help me get divorced with my abusive relationship with the Islanders?

Yes but you will still need to pay child support.

 

[Glory Days]

The concern (for you Isles fans) is that owners who see ownership as a way to flip an asset for a profit tend to care little for how well the team does, as long as the asset keeps appreciating in value for when they want to sell it. The owners who hang onto the team because they like being owners tend to have more pride in seeing their team win.

Look at the teams who have been successful. Almost all of them have owners who've been around for a long, long time. The teams who get sold every 5 years tend to be the ones who see instability in their performance.

Ledecky was a minority owner of the Caps. I think he did that to get his foot in the NHL door so one day he could be a majority owner. He is also a New York guy. If you saw him cheering in the luxury box on his birthday he certainly didn't look like a guy who is only in this for an investment. Only time will tell.

 

[redbull]

Well yeah, you picked worse case scenario by removing all UFA and then left team as is.

Anywho, I liked the development of Beauviller, Pulock and Barzal (obviously) from game 1 to 70 or wherever we are now. Those are first rounders, key first rounders. Their continued progress bodes well for next year. There's a decent chance we keep our entire top 6 intact next year hinging on JT.

Lee-Tavares-Bailey
Beauviller-Barzal-Eberle

Even if Barzal doesn't go PPG next year (step back like you said) 65 points (82 game season) is still incredible. Puts us hard against a team like Washington (Backstorm+Kuznetsov) competitively.

But to do into an offseason where you're worry is the bottom 6, not the top 6, you're ahead. That's just one area but all things considered you have a positive thing going.

Ladd-X-X
Wagner-Cizikas-Clutterbuck
Johnston

Let Quine/Prince go, call up Ho-Sang for the RW spot, maybe drop Ladd to the 4th line and have Bellows. Trade Nelson for a different more impactful center that doesn't need points but needs to help in the 200 ft space. On offense you're making one move pretty much. Nelson is an asset too so you're not losing, he can be traded for a first rounder theoretically or help on D. If Val Flip was brought in as your 3C, now we're cooking.

So offensive production should continue to be a strength. I feel like I wasted time, we all knew that, I'm just brain shot right now, been up since 5 am studying sorry. You're assuming no JT, I am. Ok.

Defense. Are we going to shuffle decks on the on titanic? We know from Lebrun Snow talked to Chyka about OEL. Here's what I see:

Nelson is done, there's an asset. We have 4 picks in the top 62 of the 2018 draft and our first and second in the 2019 draft. We can take hits here. The conversation has happened, the player is still available and assets are there for the taking. I think a deal gets done. Get the rights to that goalie too. Pay assets for them to take Greiss. Rantta, OEL and Flipula in for Nelson, Halak and de Haan makes the team better. There was nothing unrealistic in this. Snow sits on his hands sure, but when he failed in 13-14 he went out and fixed depth, got two top 4 dmen and a goalie who set the wins record for the Isles. The cap space is still flexible, the assets are there and we know he's had conversations for dmen and goaltenders.

If you can pay a second rounder for Arizona to take Greiss, even retaining some money, you sign Gibson to be the backup at 650k and take advantage of a backups salary for once. Sign Rantta to a 4/5 year deal worth 20 million or so. Halak money.

You picked your lineup, I'll have mine.

Lee-Tavares-Bailey
Beauviller-Barzal-Eberle
Ladd-Flippula-Ho-Sang
Wagner-Cizikas-Clutterbuck
Johnston

OEL-Pelech
Leddy-Boychuk
Davidson-Pulock
Mayfield

Rantta-Gibson
(Toews call up/Aho call up)


My issue relies in leadership. Would really love someone with a loud voice in the room. Coaching is still an issue.

I appreciate your optimism and don't mean to pick on your post or thought process. For those who are optimistic and think Snow's done a remotely-good (or not horribly pathetic) job, want to outline how ugly this situation is with the cap (even if Tavares re-signs)

In short, you're replacing:

Nelson for Filppula (Filppula's coming off a 5yr/$25MM deal and will likely make $4MM? roughly what you'll pay Nelson) And he scores fewer goals than Nelson and frankly, isn't better defensively than Kulemin who will walk
OEL for deHaan (OEL on his last year at $5.5MM, likely to make $8MM on his next long term deal)
Halak/Greiss for Raanta/Gibson (sideways to backwards - no #1 guy here) Raanta's never started more than 30 games before this year, has played 3 playoff games, and isn't very big. Never getting a team to take Greiss, they gave up a first to Vegas just for Grabo!


To get OEL, if it's even possible, the price will be really high. Like 2 first rounders and a top prospect at minimum - are the Islanders that close to being a contender that this move makes sense? say it's K.Bellows/D.Toews and 2 first rounders (and I still don't think it gets done, because I don't think AZ is looking for more futures)

On the cap
$46-48MM for forwards - assuming ~$11MM for Tavares
$22-24MM on defense (including OEL's $5.5MM on last year)
$6-8MM in goal

And suddenly we're around $75MM+ and then have Beauvillier, Barzal off ELC, Eberle, OEL, Lee as pending UFAs with no cap space to pay them. Still no #1 goalie and still a lackluster defense. I think the team is essentially the same as this year's team but adding OEL instead of deHaan.

Not exactly the next powerhouse in the East and lucky to make the playoffs, with zero depth to sustain any injury (like this year)

This is really a mess.

Way too much money paid to unproductive players with zero upside and not enough money to pay productive players who are on ELCs or pending UFAs.

mess.

 

[redbull]

Granted we don't have your connections....

good chance he/she believes in bigfoot and the easter bunny (easter bunny, if you're reading this, just kidding, still want the chocolate eggs this year)

---

the only hope for this team is JT signs for a discount (of market value)
we win the double lottery and pick 1st and 2nd (Dahlin and Svechnikov)
Ledecky hires a competent GM, who hires a competent coach
Ledecky invests in scouts and player development staff for the longer term

Still probably means no playoffs next year - but Dahlin looks incredible and would really transform this team. In a few years, a Sorokin, Dahlin, Barzal, Tavares, Svechnikov could rival what Tampa has today (Vasilevsky, Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Point)

I'm not liking the chances but we always have prayer/hope.

 

[doublechili]

good chance he/she believes in bigfoot and the easter bunny (easter bunny, if you're reading this, just kidding, still want the chocolate eggs this year)

---

the only hope for this team is JT signs for a discount (of market value)
we win the double lottery and pick 1st and 2nd (Dahlin and Svechnikov)
Ledecky hires a competent GM, who hires a competent coach
Ledecky invests in scouts and player development staff for the longer term

Still probably means no playoffs next year - but Dahlin looks incredible and would really transform this team. In a few years, a Sorokin, Dahlin, Barzal, Tavares, Svechnikov could rival what Tampa has today (Vasilevsky, Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov, Point)

I'm not liking the chances but we always have prayer/hope.

I'll take JT signing, new GM and new coach. And if the GM trades for OEL and the rights to Raanta at the draft (or a similar deal/signing to get a #1 goalie and a #1 defenseman), I'll be ecstatic. Hey if the lottery balls bounce our way....

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I appreciate your optimism and don't mean to pick on your post or thought process. For those who are optimistic and think Snow's done a remotely-good (or not horribly pathetic) job, want to outline how ugly this situation is with the cap (even if Tavares re-signs)

In short, you're replacing:

Nelson for Filppula (Filppula's coming off a 5yr/$25MM deal and will likely make $4MM? roughly what you'll pay Nelson) And he scores fewer goals than Nelson and frankly, isn't better defensively than Kulemin who will walk
OEL for deHaan (OEL on his last year at $5.5MM, likely to make $8MM on his next long term deal)
Halak/Greiss for Raanta/Gibson (sideways to backwards - no #1 guy here) Raanta's never started more than 30 games before this year, has played 3 playoff games, and isn't very big. Never getting a team to take Greiss, they gave up a first to Vegas just for Grabo!


To get OEL, if it's even possible, the price will be really high. Like 2 first rounders and a top prospect at minimum - are the Islanders that close to being a contender that this move makes sense? say it's K.Bellows/D.Toews and 2 first rounders (and I still don't think it gets done, because I don't think AZ is looking for more futures)

On the cap
$46-48MM for forwards - assuming ~$11MM for Tavares
$22-24MM on defense (including OEL's $5.5MM on last year)
$6-8MM in goal

And suddenly we're around $75MM+ and then have Beauvillier, Barzal off ELC, Eberle, OEL, Lee as pending UFAs with no cap space to pay them. Still no #1 goalie and still a lackluster defense. I think the team is essentially the same as this year's team but adding OEL instead of deHaan.

Not exactly the next powerhouse in the East and lucky to make the playoffs, with zero depth to sustain any injury (like this year)

This is really a mess.

Way too much money paid to unproductive players with zero upside and not enough money to pay productive players who are on ELCs or pending UFAs.

mess.

I'm not one to take offense, no worries. I'd bet on two things, one, cap is going up to 82. Then Seattle is coming and I'd bet it goes up again so there's flexibility around Barzals second contracts.

Just did a quickie on capgeek. For one year of OEL and taking on Greiss's contract, I gave them CGY pick 1, our 2019 first and Toews and of course Greiss. Nelson too. I think it's too much but whatever. Flip gets a three year deal for 4 million. NTC. Whatever. With Raanta getting 4.15 million too, I'm hoping for Talbot and not Darling. Granted. You still have 5 million leftover. That's a lot of green. That's a lot to hold over into next season for Lee and Eberle extensions.

 

[beach]

It just dawned on me that after what Carolina did yesterday, Snow is going to be promoted to President; and he will hire a new GM and then control him like a puppet. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

[DarkHorse2]

I saw the billboard this morning on my way to work. It's on Atlantic & Classon Ave for those who are curious.

Bad timing/design. People are going to think it's a comment on the weather. Realize you can't use logos or faces, but some hockey sticks and an island silhouette might have gotten the job done.

 

[DarkHorse2]

View media item 1513

 

[beach]

We realllllllly should have went after eric staal instead of ladd. That sucks

You know, at the time Staal looked like he was done. I live in Raleigh and he was a dog in the last couple of seasons there. Slow, a shell of what he was. Apparently he was intentionally dogging it to escape the Canes. He has been completely different on Minn. I don't think the Ladd deal was a good deal at all based on term, but I was against getting Staal based on what I saw.

 

[Strait2thecup]

You know, at the time Staal looked like he was done. I live in Raleigh and he was a dog in the last couple of seasons there. Slow, a shell of what he was. Apparently he was intentionally dogging it to escape the Canes. He has been completely different on Minn. I don't think the Ladd deal was a good deal at all based on term, but I was against getting Staal based on what I saw.

That’s fair. I think some were talking about us getting him as a cheap Nielsen replacement back then which in hindsight would have been a great move.
He certainly did seem done though