Proposal: Gardiner/JVR+2017 unprotected 1st

[Deadly Dogma]

OK we need a high end RHD D-man but we don't have the Hall type player to get one so I was thinking does 1 of GArdiner or JVR plus the 2017 unprotected 1st (most likely top 5 pick) land one.
I am thinking guys like Shattenkirk, Faulk, Carlsson, Brodie, LIndholm, Risto etc level guys.

Now I understand a rebuilding team should keep their likely high 1st but I am curious if any other fanbase would make a deal?
I also understand that logically we are best served by keeping the pick due to there being 3 top end D prospects projected in the top 5

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[Mad Brills*]

shattenkirk is a no for both, even with an extension.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

shattenkirk is a no for both, even with an extension.

I know its a ton to offer but my Logic is Hall=Gardiner/JVR+2017 unprotected 1st

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Leafs should trade for a guy like seabrook. He would cost way less to acquire and can mentor the kids. Then use that high 1st rounder to draft your own RHD to fill his shoes

 

[Maukkis]

I know its a ton to offer but my Logic is Hall=Gardiner/JVR+2017 unprotected 1st

Before going any further, read this.

In a trade there is two parameters: Value & Need

Both parameters are not necessarily equal and do not equate the same from the point of view of each trade partner.

So sometimes even if the value seems disproportionate, the need - hopefully - will balance things out.

Needs can outweigh Value, and vice-versa.

It's not as simple as you think it is. NJ needed Hall, Edmonton needed Larsson. Toronto needs a "Shattenkirk", but does "St. Louis" need Gardiner/JVR+2017 1st?

Toronto should just stick to the plan. If a team goes scorched earth mode, shortcuts make very little sense. Especially in this case, when literally everything changed in such a short space of time.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

JVR+Gardiner+Toronto's 2017 1st round pick unprotected, Isn't going to get you either one of Faulk or Lindholm. Start with your best prospect and work from there.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Before going any further, read this.



It's not as simple as you think it is. NJ needed Hall, Edmonton needed Larsson. Toronto needs a "Shattenkirk", but does "St. Louis" need Gardiner/JVR+2017 1st?

Toronto should just stick to the plan. If a team goes scorched earth mode, shortcuts make very little sense. Especially in this case, when literally everything changed in such a short space of time.

I get it and I assume the Shannaplan is to play the year out and where ever we finish the plan is to take the best D man available or to trade up a few spots.
However there has to be a team out there that would see Gardiner+2017 1st or JVR+2017 1st worth a top end RHD

 

[ACC1224]

I know its a ton to offer but my Logic is Hall=Gardiner/JVR+2017 unprotected 1st

Wasn't Hall just traded for Larsson?
Not something the Leafs would even remotely consider.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

JVR+Gardiner+Toronto's 2017 1st round pick unprotected, Isn't going to get you either one of Faulk or Lindholm. Start with your best prospect and work from there.

whoa whoa there its not Gardiner+JVR+2017 unprotected 1st. Ana would 100% take Gardiner+JVR+top 5 pick for Lindholm and if Murray didn't he should be fired on the spot.
Now I do understand that Lindholm and Faulk may have more value than the Gardiner OR JVR plus the top 5 pick hence why I said a player like those ones

 

[Dustin]

Why are we trading Gardiner? We need to be adding to Rielly and Gardiner, not subtracting from.

 

[Maukkis]

I get it and I assume the Shannaplan is to play the year out and where ever we finish the plan is to take the best D man available or to trade up a few spots.
However there has to be a team out there that would see Gardiner+2017 1st or JVR+2017 1st worth a top end RHD

Looking at the six names you mentioned in the OP, there are four untouchables. Then you have Faulk, who's not moving for that package, and Shattenkirk, but since STL is a contender, that pick is much less enticing. And at the same time, Toronto won't want to move that pick just to upgrade Gardiner. And JVR is not that big of a need, given the offensive depth of STL. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

JVR+Gardiner+Toronto's 2017 1st round pick unprotected, Isn't going to get you either one of Faulk or Lindholm. Start with your best prospect and work from there.

There is no "work" to be done if we were to offer up Matthews.

 

[Djp]

You need to find a team that has 3 really strong RH Dman where their 2nd would be #1 RHD on half the teams and their 3rd RHD is good enough to be a 2nd pair Dmen.

Given Toronto will likely draft top 5 next year you could fill that void then.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

whoa whoa there its not Gardiner+JVR+2017 unprotected 1st. Ana would 100% take Gardiner+JVR+top 5 pick for Lindholm and if Murray didn't he should be fired on the spot.
Now I do understand that Lindholm and Faulk may have more value than the Gardiner OR JVR plus the top 5 pick hence why I said a player like those ones

Sorry mis-read it there, This is even worse so you're telling me that a deal based around JVR/Gardiner+2017 1st round pick top 5 possibly would net you Lindholm. Yeah no it wont. First off Anaheim doesn't need Gardiner they already have tons of D hence the reason why they can move Fowler. So no need for Gardiner and JVR+2017 1st isn't going to net you Lindholm. JVR staright up for Fowler is the best your going to get here.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Looking at the six names you mentioned in the OP, there are four untouchables. Then you have Faulk, who's not moving for that package, and Shattenkirk, but since STL is a contender, that pick is much less enticing. And at the same time, Toronto won't want to move that pick just to upgrade Gardiner. And JVR is not that big of a need, given the offensive depth of STL. It just doesn't make sense.

The ones I mentioned were only to start the discussion and to show a tier that I felt that Gardiner+2017 1st or JVR+2017 1st was worth
For instance I would consider Stone+the Sens unprotected 1st for Rielly or Tanev+Van's pick for Rielly
etc
reason being we would prob have 2 picks in the top 5 to get 2 top end D men.

 

[sparxx87]

There is no "work" to be done if we were to offer up Matthews.

Why would you do that? You have a guy whose going to be the number 1 centre for a decade, and a player in Rielly who'll be a number 1 d for a decade.

If Andersen is who some think he is, then there's your number 1 goalie and the backbone of your team. Every acquisition should be in effort to support this spine.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

There is no "work" to be done if we were to offer up Matthews.

Sorry but that's most likely what it's going to take to get Lindholm out of Anaheim is Matthews. If this guy thinks that a deal based around JVR/Gardiner+2017 1st round pick possibly top 5 is going to get you Lindholm then he's sorely mistaken. No way does Ducks GM Bob Murray move Lindholm to Toronto without Matthews coming back.

 

[Drew311]

I don't think Shanny would even consider trading the Leafs unprotected 1st under any circumstance, unless they are getting a young superstar in return.

 

[Maukkis]

The ones I mentioned were only to start the discussion and to show a tier that I felt that Gardiner+2017 1st or JVR+2017 1st was worth
For instance I would consider Stone+the Sens unprotected 1st for Rielly or Tanev+Van's pick for Rielly
etc
reason being we would prob have 2 picks in the top 5 to get 2 top end D men.

Well, if you already have one, AND have a likely top pick in a draft which has loads of high potential defensemen, why do anything at all? Draft picks bust more often than most think, that's why very few teams are willing to risk losing their best defensemen for a chance for an even better one.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Leafs can't trade their first next year.

It'll likely be a top 8 pick.

Gardiner/jvr on the other hand...

 

[sabresfan129103]

It's gonna be pretty much impossible to trade for a #1 Young RHD without purging your young super stars. Teams just do not trade them with how hard they are to acquire. You're gonna have to draft one.

 

[Mad Brills*]

It's gonna be pretty much impossible to trade for a #1 Young RHD without purging your young super stars. Teams just do not trade them with how hard they are to acquire. You're gonna have to draft one.

shattenkirk's the only top pair RHD that the leafs could possibly trade for without giving up one of their big 3.

 

[StuckOutHere]

Leafs can't trade their first next year.

It'll likely be a top 8 pick.

Gardiner/jvr on the other hand...

Next years draft is shaping up to be kinda meh. I would trade the 2017 1st in the right deal for sure.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Sorry but that's most likely what it's going to take to get Lindholm out of Anaheim is Matthews. If this guy thinks that a deal based around JVR/Gardiner+2017 1st round pick possibly top 5 is going to get you Lindholm then he's sorely mistaken. No way does Ducks GM Bob Murray move Lindholm to Toronto without Matthews coming back.

lol this is so absurd

 

[The Assclown]

Next years draft is shaping up to be kinda meh. I would trade the 2017 1st in the right deal for sure.

Not a good idea even in a 'meh' situation, especially with the effort the Leafs are putting into drafting and developing talent.