Post-Game Talk: Game VI Pens loss to Stars: Our Stars can’t dance

[SEALBound]

Everything they do makes them look their age.

The 4th line is Adams-Vitale-Glass level of worthlessness. Every single one of them.

The 3rd line appeared to be taking more initiative in the offensive zone which was nice to see.

PP sucks. Way too much passing with little organization.

 

[Rudy Russo]

I'm seeing less and less of a reason to believe that this team is anything but exactly how they've performed this year.

The bottom-6 is doing what it is designed to do, they're getting exactly what they want out of that bottom-6 (low event defensive hockey). The issue is that the top-6 can't consistently score enough where a low event defensive bottom-6 works. I think the vision of this team, both from the system Sullivan is running along with the roster construction that Dubas selected, is just fundamentally not correct on the evaluation of the core. This team doesn't have the ability to run the system Sullivan wants to run, nor is the core good enough anymore to be able to win games with a completely unproductive bottom-6. The fundamental vision of this team is based on the flawed assumption that the core is good enough for the vision to work, it's just not anymore.

At the same time, you're spending so much money on the top-6 that you don't reasonably even have a way to help the bottom-6 production. I just don't know what you can even do with this team. Firing Sullivan is really the only thing I can see that even might make a difference, but I still don't think that would move the needle substantially.

If they'd fire Sullivan the results didn't improve, I'd be fully ready to just write off this team as being past their prime and done.

Firing Sulliven would help but Nieto and Cater need to be replaced on the 4th line. I'm so glad that Kappy and McCann are playing so well since they left the penguins. Great job Sullivan.

 

[Flying Dego]

& Sid isn't a Massive Issue???

I don't understand. Are you new to sports?

You want FSG to trade Sid and keep the coach?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Honest question….

How ugly does it have to get to see what this team can get for guys like Guentzel?

Could probably bring back a lot and with this team at the end of the road, seems like a no brainer if it does get out of hand.

 

[molon labe]

Came here to see who else thought Graves has been downright trash. AHL early call up levels of bad. Can't see. Can't pass. When he does pass, it's flubbed to the opposition. Can't clear. Can't body. Skates slow. Makes Jeff Carter look 19 again.

Oh - and yeah, having Karlsson/Letang on the ice for 40 minutes is not enough to elevate this bottom 6. We literally have 2 scoring lines and one of those lines has 1 option (Geno).

 

[wgknestrick]

Hoping it gets worse from here. This team needs some lottery picks

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Fire Sullivan, trade Jake before his value plummets (or he's re-signed, yikes).

I'm fine with watching the team lose, but we're half a decade into ever-worsening hockey and an ever more boring product on the ice.

People always try to pretend the rebuild is gonna be some miseryfest, as if watching this slopshit isn't awful already. At least lose with a goal in mind, and premium picks/prospects piling up. This team carries itself with such an air of arrogance and "We're the Pens, we deserve to win" that they're extremely unlikable.

Getting close to the time we see whether Dubas has any intention of acting or if he's simply gonna take half a season or more to observe and evaluate. I wouldn't be surprised with the latter, as he's here for seven years.

Graves is just not good enough. Not even close.

Graves and Letang have both been f***ing rough, man. Not great.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So, what's a realistic amount of rope for Sullivan? How bad does the record have to get?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Firing Sulliven would help but Nieto and Cater need to be replaced on the 4th line. I'm so glad that Kappy and McCann are playing so well since they left the penguins. Great job Sullivan.

They don't even have the cap space for either of those players, so I don't see how they're at all relevant.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

& Sid isn't a Massive Issue???

Gotta try a different coach to determine that

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's over. Blow it up.

 

[Andy99]

This is sad…feels like pretty much the end…we are so reliant on 36-37 year old players to carry the torch without great young talent around them…and the coaching staff is oblivious and carries on playing the same way…the Isles are old and they just put up 4 goals on the Avs…we have to play less aggressively, hang back more and try to get turnovers from faster teams, like the Avs, who push play…we cannot push the play offensively anymore, sorry to say

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

The PP is a f***ing disaster. Our only chance is if the PP works.

 

[pistolpete11]

Why was Graves so bad?

He played 22min and was only a -1. On this team...

 

[Rudy Russo]

I actually had hope that maybe we were seeing a legit team at the end of 20 minutes. I was dead wrong. We’ll be 10 games under .500 by the end of November.

Good thing the penguins protected the 1st round pick (Top ten). This team is too old to play the brand of hockey Sullivan wants to coach.

 

[Pancakes]

At the same time, you're spending so much money on the top-6 that you don't reasonably even have a way to help the bottom-6 production. I just don't know what you can even do with this team. Firing Sullivan is really the only thing I can see that even might make a difference, but I still don't think that would move the needle substantially.

If they'd fire Sullivan the results didn't improve, I'd be fully ready to just write off this team as being past their prime and done.

I'm not convinced that firing Sullivan does anything either but it's the last big bullet left to fire (short of doing something wild like moving Guentzel).

What's the worst that could happen? You fire Sully and the team still stinks? At that point you know it's the roster and it's time to blow it up as much as possible.

But ya gotta do something

 

[Rudy Russo]

Why was Graves so bad?

He played 22min and was only a -1. On this team...

Did you watch the game tonight?

 

[DearDiary]

Graves body of work this season is worse than anything done by Jack Johnson. If the team has any accountability, he will be scratched next game in place of an AHL defender

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm going to explicitly say that I'm not defending the 4th line here, because the nicest thing you can say about it is that it has been "low event", but I find it bizarre that people are complaining about the 4th line after today's game when Malkin's line was on the ice for 3 goals against and Crosby's line was on the ice for the other goal against

The bottom-6 isn't producing enough, yeah, but the bottom-6 didn't lose this game.

 

[Rudy Russo]

I'm not convinced that firing Sullivan does anything either but it's the last big bullet left to fire (short of doing something wild like moving Guentzel).

What's the worst that could happen? You fire Sully and the team still stinks? At that point you know it's the roster and it's time to blow it up as much as possible.

But ya gotta do something

I think Dubas may move Rakell.

 

[Ryder71]

So, what's a realistic amount of rope for Sullivan? How bad does the record have to get?

I think the bigger problem is our stars age and their inability to carry the team as they once did. It's over, been over for a long time now. I was hoping for better, but the writing was on the wall.

 

[Flying Dego]

So, what's a realistic amount of rope for Sullivan? How bad does the record have to get?

I honestly think they'd let him miss the playoff in poor fashion this year. They haven't even got into his extension yet. I just can't see them doing the right thing and eating the bill.

 

[pistolpete11]

Honest question….

How ugly does it have to get to see what this team can get for guys like Guentzel?

Could probably bring back a lot and with this team at the end of the road, seems like a no brainer if it does get out of hand.

As unspeakable as this is....

I think they fire Sullivan before they trade Jake.

 

[66-30-33]

I'm not convinced that firing Sullivan does anything either but it's the last big bullet left to fire (short of doing something wild like moving Guentzel).

What's the worst that could happen? You fire Sully and the team still stinks? At that point you know it's the roster and it's time to blow it up as much as possible.

But ya gotta do something

If we suck now we will lose either our 1st in 2024 or unprotected 2025 1st.

 

[molon labe]

Our fourth line needs to be blown up.

4th line and the entire coaching staff. Can't do anything about our goalie tandem.

We literally knew going this route, with these players, with this coach - we would have to outscore opponents with at LEAST 3 gpg - likely 4. With what we've seen that'll literally require, on most nights, goals from Sid/Rust/Guentz/Geno, or a multi goal game from one of them. Just to win. There's nobody else.

I thought that third line showed a pulse tonight - from someone who bashed the Eller signing this Summer. Still not thrilled but at least it looked NHL level. My dear lord....4th line, coaches, Graves...