GDT: Game 7: Sharks @ Ducks 7:15 NBCSCA

[Beethovens 10th]

No.

You’re right. Here’s my hot take: this is a playoff team WITHOUT SMITH. He’s that f***ing bad. Put him in the ECHL. As the f***ing Zamboni driver.

 

[Lebanezer]

You’re right. Here’s my hot take: this is a playoff team WITHOUT SMITH. He’s that f***ing bad. Put him in the ECHL. As the f***ing Zamboni driver.

 

[Sharksfan66]

It doesn’t track that Marleau, Pavs, Couture, Bernier, Michalek, Setoguchi, Meier, and on and on and on all got to ease into their careers on playoff teams?

While Smith is skating onto an ice sheet covered in dog shit?

These are, without question, the worst two sharks teams since the early 90s, cut the kid some slack.

Uhh Patty's rookie year was coming off a team that finished last in the league.

You can't act like he's the first highly touted C prospect we've had step into a terrible team when he's living with a guy who literally had that same story and fared much better (so far) in a much lower scoring era.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Pavs - Sharks were 2nd in the Pacific when he played 16 games in the AHL.
Logan - Sharks were 1st in the Pacific when he was playing 42 games in the AHL.
Hertl - Played two games in the AHL.

So what makes Smith different?
- He is a higher rated prospect.
- Team is much worse than when those players were developing.
- The three players mentioned played a total of 60 games in the AHL.

His issues with speed and read of the game is better developed in the NHL IMO. He isn't going to magically gain size, so the AHL is no benefit there. He needs to get NHL game speed built up - which won't be done in the AHL.

So you're saying we're rushing Smith to the NHL because the big club is bad? That would be incredibly near sighted. I hope that's not it.

Also, Hertl played a couple of years in a pro men's league before coming to NA.

And I keep saying it, but Smith was not a higher rated prospect than Couture.

Lastly, I think it's Elliot Friedman who often say this (or someone on 32 Thoughts) but the NHL is not a development league. We've got to get out of that mindset. You come here when you are ready to play not to get ready to play.

Logan went 9th and that is the only thing that matters as far as pedigree. And again it cannot be overstated how much not having Celebrini is messing things up for Smith at this time. Logan had Joe f***in Thornton dominating above him and Ryane Clowe crushing anything in the vicinity. Smith has absolutely no one as good as either of those guys, let alone the other players that populated the top 6 when Logan came in.

All the more reason to send him to the A. You walked right into that one.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Who cares? It's not as if he's blocking someone who deserves his spot more. The critique of Smith is that he's not standing out from all the other Sharks that haven't scored yet.

This is a good question. Let me clarify: I'm not saying send him down because he is bad or causing the team to lose. I'm saying send him down because playing on this loser team is bad for his development and developing the kids is all that really matters this season.

Everyone seems to get this with Askarov. I don't know why there seems to be some disconnect when we think about Smith.

 

[Beethovens 10th]

Uhh Patty's rookie year was coming off a team that finished last in the league.

You can't act like he's the first highly touted C prospect we've had step into a terrible team when he's living with a guy who literally had that same story and fared much better (so far) in a much lower scoring era.

How’d they finish in his rookie season? Think this team can come close to that?

Serious question, what other highly touted C prospect, besides Patty have we dropped onto not just the worst team in the league, but the worst team in the salary cap era?

I don’t care if Smith’s play hurts the team here and there. There’s an argument for developing him up or down, I don’t care as long as he develops. It’s been 7 games, let’s give him at least a dozen more.

 

[Anomie2029]

So you're saying we're rushing Smith to the NHL because the big club is bad? That would be incredibly near sighted. I hope that's not it.

Also, Hertl played a couple of years in a pro men's league before coming to NA.

And I keep saying it, but Smith was not a higher rated prospect than Couture.

Lastly, I think it's Elliot Friedman who often say this (or someone on 32 Thoughts) but the NHL is not a development league. We've got to get out of that mindset. You come here when you are ready to play not to get ready to play.

I’m actually saying Couture and Pavs didn’t come straight into the NHL because there were established NHLers ahead of them. I don’t think Pavs 16 game stint really developed his game. In fact he developed whilst in the NHL.

You’re correct - the NHL is not a development league. But it’s also an assumption a player can’t develop in the NHL. What Smith needs to improve needs to be done in the NHL - the AHL won’t provide it for him.

And no, Couture was not a higher rated prospect than Smith.

 

[Lebanezer]

So you're saying we're rushing Smith to the NHL because the big club is bad? That would be incredibly near sighted. I hope that's not it.

Also, Hertl played a couple of years in a pro men's league before coming to NA.

And I keep saying it, but Smith was not a higher rated prospect than Couture.

Lastly, I think it's Elliot Friedman who often say this (or someone on 32 Thoughts) but the NHL is not a development league. We've got to get out of that mindset. You come here when you are ready to play not to get ready to play.


All the more reason to send him to the A. You walked right into that one.

It’s been 6 games. Smith has the skill to play in the NHL. It’s perfectly fine to be patient with him. Marleau and Couture both had 6 points after 20 games in their rookie seasons. Let’s see where Smith is at that benchmark.

 

[stator]

Why are some dumping on Smith when most the team played like crap?

 

[karltonian]

All the more reason to send him to the A. You walked right into that one.

No. The point of that was to show why Couture and Pavs (Marleau was a 2nd OA, not equivalent pedigree) seemed to fare much better when making the transition, they were in so much more of a position to put up numbers. Smith is not at this time a 1C so without benefiting from playing behind an actual 1C (Granlund is a margin 1C at best), he is going to do worse than he will when there is an impact 1C ahead of him.

 

[Shark Finn]

Why are some dumping on Smith when most the team played like crap?

Boy, meet whip.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1848992414968779070

 

[Star Platinum]

This is a good question. Let me clarify: I'm not saying send him down because he is bad or causing the team to lose. I'm saying send him down because playing on this loser team is bad for his development and developing the kids is all that really matters this season.

Everyone seems to get this with Askarov. I don't know why there seems to be some disconnect when we think about Smith.

The only argument for not having Askarov up here right now is the trauma that he would suffer playing behind this defense. In terms of actual goaltending ability, he is far better than Blackwood and Vanacek. If he has the mental toughness to put up with all the high quality chances that our defense gives up and still be cocky afterwards, he should be up here right now.

If sending Smith to the AHL would actually accelerate his development, I'd be 100% for it. I don't care how he gets to where we need him to be as long as he gets there. The reason why I think it works for him to stay in the NHL is that I think his block is understanding that stuff he could get away with on USNT and at BC doesn't fly in the NHL. If he went to the AHL, I'm sure he'd have an easier time putting up points, but one thing that's clear watching the highlights of those games compared to the Sharks games is how much more space and time there is to make a play. I think he could probably get away with playing closer to the pace he played at with BC and I don't think that's necessarily the lesson he needs.

The best argument for sending him down IMO is that he would be a first line center in the AHL and PP1 in the AHL. Even with the injury to Celebrini, it's clear that Warsofsky will never pair him with Eklund and Toffoli because he's too intent on chasing wins and no amount of people marveling over Goodrow's puck retrieval is going to convince me that pairing those two is good for Smith's development.

 

[coooldude]

Askarov wouldn't have won us that game, and that game wouldn't help Askarov develop. Blackwood wasn't the problem and kept us in it. Dostal and the post kept us out of it. Until Askarov gives us a meaningfully better chance to win games or being in the NHL is critical for his development, it's fine to have him in the A playing lots of games. It's harder for us to manage the scarce asset of goalie if we are rotating 3 in the NHL or trying to send Vanecek or Blackwood through waivers when they could get us a 3rd or something at the deadline.

This doesn't apply to Smith, for anyone thinking of trying to use the logic, because:
- Smith doesn't have to fight for ice time in a binary manner... Goalies are different
- Smith doesn't have meaningful competition - he's already starting as 3C behind Granlund and Wennberg, but it's not like Sturm is better at this point at 5v5
- it's not materially better for him and his development to be in the A. People have that opinion and maybe they're right but Grier and team disagree, so here's where we are for now.

 

[Cas]

It really annoyed me a few games ago when he said "it (the bench) felt like last year". If that's the attitude he is taking into the room and on the bench, then what exactly is he contributing because it certainly doesn't seem to be energy on the ice or on the bench.

He's a Stanley Cup Champion and therefore Knows How to Win.

 

[Friday]

I tried to stay up watching this but I fell asleep haha

 

[Alaskanice]

All of this has me wondering if Mike Grier wanted Smith to stay up so that him and Macklin could grow, ups and downs, together. So either of them doesn’t feel so weighted down.
This is not similar to the past. We’ve been coming out of a year down that sets things very different from other years.

 

[landshark]

Also I feel it important to belatedly weigh in on all the duck-related posts from earlier:

Scrooge McDuck is Scottish, not Irish.

I thought MAC was Scottish and MC was Irish...

 

[Sharksfan66]

I’m actually saying Couture and Pavs didn’t come straight into the NHL because there were established NHLers ahead of them. I don’t think Pavs 16 game stint really developed his game. In fact he developed whilst in the NHL.

You’re correct - the NHL is not a development league. But it’s also an assumption a player can’t develop in the NHL. What Smith needs to improve needs to be done in the NHL - the AHL won’t provide it for him.

And no, Couture was not a higher rated prospect than Smith.

I disagree with the bolded (the A will definitely help him with size/physicality, maybe not as much with speed but I bet it would help at least a bit with that). But I could see where you would disagree.

Your last sentence is just silliness. Couture was talked about as a #1 pick before mono hit. No one ever talked about Smith like that. That's not a knock on Smith at all btw. I really, really like Smith. But my point is it seems like some of you weren't around when we last drafted high end centers and it shows.

 

[mogambomoroo]

All of this has me wondering if Mike Grier wanted Smith to stay up so that him and Macklin could grow, ups and downs, together. So either of them doesn’t feel so weighted down.
This is not similar to the past. We’ve been coming out of a year down that sets things very different from other years.

I believe this was the case. Nothing they can do about the major setback with that injury. But I for sure know they will thrive once Celebrini is back and Smith is probably a little more seasoned player by then.

 

[Sharksfan66]

It’s been 6 games. Smith has the skill to play in the NHL. It’s perfectly fine to be patient with him. Marleau and Couture both had 6 points after 20 games in their rookie seasons. Let’s see where Smith is at that benchmark.

Patty & Logan also came in during lower scoring eras. And neither were scoreless after 6 games. Couture probably isn't fair because he came onto a stacked team but the contrast between Patty and Smith so far has not been small IMO. From your posts, I would assume you watched rookie Marleau. How would you say they compare so far?

I agree on the call for patience btw, and I actually think that's my point. There's no need to rush this kid to the big club.

 

[Barrie22]

Patty & Logan also came in during lower scoring eras. And neither were scoreless after 6 games. Couture probably isn't fair because he came onto a stacked team but the contrast between Patty and Smith so far has not been small IMO. From your posts, I would assume you watched rookie Marleau. How would you say they compare so far?

I agree on the call for patience btw, and I actually think that's my point. There's no need to rush this kid to the big club.

Marleau didn’t really do better in his 1st 6 games, 1 assist. 2 assists in 10 games. 6 points in 20 games. 7 points in 25 games. 10 points in 30 games. 12 points in 35 games.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Marleau didn’t really do better in his 1st 6 games, 1 assist. 2 assists in 10 games. 6 points in 20 games. 7 points in 25 games. 10 points in 30 games. 12 points in 35 games.

I was much younger back then (weren't we all? ) but from what I recall, Marleau didn't look as out of place as Smith does. He was also a full year younger than Smith. AND the NHL was a lower scoring league back then. Someone smarter than me could do the math but I would guess 10 points in 30 games back then is closer to half a point per game. For an 18 year old, one of the youngest to ever play in the league. The comparison to Smith isn't flattering IMO.

And I'll say it for the 100th time. I really like Smith. I think he could end up having a more prolific offensive career than Patty. But if we rush the kid, we're less likely to see it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Marleau didn’t really do better in his 1st 6 games, 1 assist. 2 assists in 10 games. 6 points in 20 games. 7 points in 25 games. 10 points in 30 games. 12 points in 35 games.

No but comparing Marleau's rookie season to Smith's rookie season is going to have issues because of age and the team's competitive makeup. The Sharks in 1997 were trying to make the playoffs and did so. Sutter was a lot less willing to throw an 18 year old rookie out there for a lot of situations compared to Smith getting the rope he'll get here today. Smith today is playing more so far than Marleau did then.

Marleau did start off slow but his benchmarks for opportunities and play time was a lot different than Smith now because Sutter's priorities are vastly different than Wars' priorities this year.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Was at the game last night, some thoughts:

The Good:

1) Walman is so much fun to watch in person. His skating and edgework is phenomenal. He glides all over the ice and never seems to be out of position. I hope the Sharks hang onto him long enough to pair him with an actual NHL defenseman.

2) Granlund and Eklund. By far the two best forwards. Both got a little gassed as the game went on, and it would be nice if one of them didn't have a muffin for a shot, but they controlled play for long stretches. Played with a bit of an edge too.

3) Blackwood. Lost count of how many great saves he made, especially through traffic.

The Bad:

1) The D, outside of Walman was as bad as advertised. Made a mediocre Duck teams look elite, they were cycling at will, especially from the second period on. Walman is also the only one who can make an outlet pass. Thrun was particularly disappointing, he looked lost and uncomfortable.

2) The team badly needs a shooter. Toffoli can rip it, but he has trouble creating his own shot.

3) The refs. I was praying that the second Ducks goal wouldn't hold up, because it came from a terrible tripping call. Thrun was also high-sticked twice in a short period of time (possibly in the same shift) without a call.

The OK:

1) Smith. I paid close attention to him all game, since he was the guy I wanted to watch the most with Mack out. He had some bad giveaways and got knocked off the puck several times, but the talent is there, and for a 19-year-old in the NHL, I don't think he looked out of place. I honestly don't have a good answer on whether or not he should be sent down. The emotional part of me wants to see him learn at the NHL level, but at the same time he's not going to get points and build confidence playing alongside offensive black holes like Goodrow and Dellandrea. I hope the Sharks leave him in the lineup for an extended period with Mack healthy, before making that decision.