GDT: Game 7: Sharks @ Ducks 7:15 NBCSCA

[Alaskanice]

Congrats to Jack Thompson for getting his first NHL point on our goal.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Yes, I even posted about it being his season in a nutshell (needs to get stronger, be more decisive) -- but he also needed puck support there, and he had a lot of other pretty dangerous plays. He could have had 2-3 points tonight but for posts or great saves.


At least! He tried a stupid chip-move in the high slot that led to a rush the other way. He screwed up one or two other OZ passes. But he also had some good forechecks, puck support as F2, turnovers, high danger passes, and a near goal. It was as I said, offensively, his best game, and without even one of the penalties, definitely his best game overall.

Cutter didn't look all that great and he's a year older and he has been a man-child for 2 years already. He's cave man hockey. Me shoot puck. Had an awful PP-killing pass to the point when nobody was there, didn't do much at 5v5.

Look, we can debate this for another hour, but he's staying up. Grier said so yesterday. And anyway this is the gauntlet - it's probably the single hardest month of his hockey-playing life, maybe his entire charmed life - and he's going to have to learn from it and if he does, he will grow immensely from it as a person and a player.

I'd like to think GMMG is more flexible than being locked into a rigid plan but who knows....

In general, I agree with a lot of your analysis (especially of Cutter!), I just think if this is Will's best game, he'd be better served going down a level to dominate and come back when he's ready. Because I expect him to truly dominate eventually.

Everyone out here worrying about Smith - when he is a young player learning to play in the NHL.

Meanwhile, I'm here wondering how Sturm is not really contributing anything to this team at all. I'd argue based on interviews, he comes across as someone who would be super negative and down in the room.

I had this thought while watching the game. He sure runs his mouth a lot for a guy that does jack squat to help the team win.

 

[coooldude]

I'd like to think GMMG is more flexible than being locked into a rigid plan but who knows....

In general, I agree with a lot of your analysis (especially of Cutter!), I just think if this is Will's best game, he'd be better served going down a level to dominate and come back when he's ready. Because I expect him to truly dominate eventually.

Will's best game so far. And he has, for the most part, gotten a little better every game.

Painful lessons tonight, but I said before I'd want to give him 20-30 games, and now it sounds like they are gonna give him closer to 60-70.

Grier may not be locked into his plan, but he just said his plan yesterday, so you better write him a strongly worded letter.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I haven't watched much Jack Hughes but I remember watching rookie Patty. And Couture. And Pavelski. The latter 2 seasoned in the A and it showed. Even Patty showed more than this at this point.

I agree with you about it being a huge jump from college to the NHL but that's why I want to send him to the A at this point. There are some players who can make the jump straight away (see Eichel, Hutson, and hopefully, Celebrini) but most can't. And there's no shame in that. It's a pretty normal development curve IMO.

This is a solid point and something I've been feeling as well. The comparisons are inevitable, and I don't remember a Sharks prospect who struggled this much while staying in the NHL.

The funny thing is when players like Eklund, Mueller, Bernier, Setoguchi, Meier, etc. were sent down to the AHL, this same argument was hashed out...

 

[Sharksfan66]

Will's best game so far. And he has, for the most part, gotten a little better every game.

Painful lessons tonight, but I said before I'd want to give him 20-30 games, and now it sounds like they are gonna give him closer to 60-70.

Grier may not be locked into his plan, but he just said his plan yesterday, so you better write him a strongly worded letter.

What makes you think I haven't already?

Seriously though, I would like to hear Sheng or someone ask GMMG what makes Will different from Logan, Pavs, Hertl, etc? Why are they jumping him straight to the big leagues when the few star Cs we've developed in the past all benefited from time playing against men before they got to the NHL.

It would be very interesting to hear how he'd answer that.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Will's best game so far. And he has, for the most part, gotten a little better every game.

Painful lessons tonight, but I said before I'd want to give him 20-30 games, and now it sounds like they are gonna give him closer to 60-70.

Grier may not be locked into his plan, but he just said his plan yesterday, so you better write him a strongly worded letter.

Hopefully he doesn’t get Shane Wrighted, gotta figure out when to send him down before his confidence gets shattered

 

[Anomie2029]

I had this thought while watching the game. He sure runs his mouth a lot for a guy that does jack squat to help the team win.

It really annoyed me a few games ago when he said "it (the bench) felt like last year". If that's the attitude he is taking into the room and on the bench, then what exactly is he contributing because it certainly doesn't seem to be energy on the ice or on the bench.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Smith being a big reason they lost this game is good adversity for him to go through now while he’s adjusting. It’s a lesson he’ll need to go through for a while during his development.

He had more opportunities to make plays and got closer than before to scoring. There’s light at the end of that tunnel. Just need to stick it out. I think they should do the same with Gushchin.

I'm glad he's getting this kind of sage advice at home, Patty.

But seriously, I do think this is the best possible way to frame it for him after what I can only imagine was a really tough loss for him.

 

[karltonian]

What makes you think I haven't already?

Seriously though, I would like to hear Sheng or someone ask GMMG what makes Will different from Logan, Pavs, Hertl, etc? Why are they jumping him straight to the big leagues when the few star Cs we've developed in the past all benefited from time playing against men before they got to the NHL.

It would be very interesting to hear how he'd answer that.

obviously draft pedigree.
and i'm pretty sure he played against men in college.

 

[Great Makohead Shork]

I thought today he was actually much closer to game speed. His near goal came from seeing the play on time and hustling HARD to catch up to that play and present an option for Goodrow, as just one example. Lots of other good offensive chances generated. Unfortunate that he had a couple turnovers in the third (one for the EN) due to not enough strength, but all in all it was actually a great step forward game for him in my eyes.

Other positives since this season isn't about wins but about development:

• Eklund looked fantastic.
• Thompson got better as the game went on - feels like looking into Cagnoni's future
• Walman isn't going to be a core piece, but he looked very solid, especially on the endless PK

It feels like we'll get our first win soon, but we're certainly only slightly better than last year. It's more watchable but it's also more frustrating versus just completely demoralizing.

Eklund is developing into a true pro. He leads by example on the ice. Doesn't appear to let the soul-crushing losing affect his game or his attitude. And most importantly for a young player, he's constantly getting better.

Playstyle-wise they might not be an exact fit but I could see Eklund having a Landeskog-like impact on this team. Granny and Zetts and even Duke when he was here all seem to have been good influences on him. Props to Grier bringing those guys in.

 

[Sharksfan66]

obviously draft pedigree.
and i'm pretty sure he played against men in college.

Logan had the draft pedigree too. And Pavs played in college. I know the NCAA has come a long way since then but I still don't think it's the same as playing against men in a professional league like Hertl did.

 

[karltonian]

Logan had the draft pedigree too. And Pavs played in college. I know the NCAA has come a long way since then but I still don't think it's the same as playing against men in a professional league like Hertl did.

No, Logan had lower than Eklund's pedigree (oops)
Also the teams in those earlier years were not rebuilding/development teams. They were wagons.

 

[Star Platinum]

Smith needs about 2 months to adjust to the speed. Benching him doesn't make the Sharks more competitive, and certainly doesn't help his development. He's just a beat behind. He's gradually improving, but everything he did in college doesn't work in the NHL yet, because it's too slow. He's not like Celebrini, who was already playing at NHL speed before the season started. Smith has to think faster and move faster, and he'll get there. Fans don't normally get a microscopic view of a player's growing pains, but that's what we're gonna get with Smith until he sorts it out.

Agreed. He's used to playing with so much talent out there that he could be deliberate with what he did, but that isn't gonna fly in the NHL. He got to do everything quicker and skate faster.

 

[NWSharkie]

What makes you think I haven't already?

Seriously though, I would like to hear Sheng or someone ask GMMG what makes Will different from Logan, Pavs, Hertl, etc? Why are they jumping him straight to the big leagues when the few star Cs we've developed in the past all benefited from time playing against men before they got to the NHL.

It would be very interesting to hear how he'd answer that.

I think the obvious answer that you'd never hear from Grier is leverage. Drafting from the NCAA is a different beast than drafting from juniors or internationally. Smith could've gone back to Boston and waited out the Sharks if he'd wanted to. To get him on the roster, Grier had to make a deal he wouldn't have had to make with any of 7th-round Pavelski or any of the others listed.

 

[karltonian]

I think the obvious answer that you'd never hear from Grier is leverage. Drafting from the NCAA is a different beast than drafting from juniors or internationally. Smith could've gone back to Boston and waited out the Sharks if he'd wanted to. To get him on the roster, Grier had to make a deal he wouldn't have had to make with any of 7th-round Pavelski or any of the others listed.

Good call, I am not very up on how the NCAA/NHL relationship works.

 

[Star Platinum]

I think the obvious answer that you'd never hear from Grier is leverage. Drafting from the NCAA is a different beast than drafting from juniors or internationally. Smith could've gone back to Boston and waited out the Sharks if he'd wanted to. To get him on the roster, Grier had to make a deal he wouldn't have had to make with any of 7th-round Pavelski or any of the others listed.

Yep. No one wanted to admit that at the time when he signed, but that's the deal.

 

[Sharksfan66]

I think the obvious answer that you'd never hear from Grier is leverage. Drafting from the NCAA is a different beast than drafting from juniors or internationally. Smith could've gone back to Boston and waited out the Sharks if he'd wanted to. To get him on the roster, Grier had to make a deal he wouldn't have had to make with any of 7th-round Pavelski or any of the others listed.

Man, I sure hope GMMG didn't guarantee a spot on the big club to get him to sign. But you could be right. Yuck.

 

[Beethovens 10th]

It doesn’t track that Marleau, Pavs, Couture, Bernier, Michalek, Setoguchi, Meier, and on and on and on all got to ease into their careers on playoff teams?

While Smith is skating onto an ice sheet covered in dog shit?

These are, without question, the worst two sharks teams since the early 90s, cut the kid some slack.

 

[NWSharkie]

Man, I sure hope GMMG didn't guarantee a spot on the big club to get him to sign. But you could be right. Yuck.

I don't think he guaranteed him a spot, but I'd bet he guaranteed him a real shot and a year off his ELC. Otherwise, what would he have to lose by staying in school for a competitive team? Best case, he could stay long enough to pick his own spot like Adam Fox did.

 

[Sharksfan66]

No, Logan had lower than Eklund's pedigree (oops)
Also the teams in those earlier years were not rebuilding/development teams. They were wagons.

I don't think that's right. From what I recall when Couture was drafted, he was talked about as a top 5 pick before mono (I think?) hampered his draft season. A definite tier above Eklund and right around what I remember the hype around Smith being pre-draft.

 

[Anomie2029]

What makes you think I haven't already?

Seriously though, I would like to hear Sheng or someone ask GMMG what makes Will different from Logan, Pavs, Hertl, etc? Why are they jumping him straight to the big leagues when the few star Cs we've developed in the past all benefited from time playing against men before they got to the NHL.

It would be very interesting to hear how he'd answer that.

Pavs - Sharks were 2nd in the Pacific when he played 16 games in the AHL.
Logan - Sharks were 1st in the Pacific when he was playing 42 games in the AHL.
Hertl - Played two games in the AHL.

So what makes Smith different?
- He is a higher rated prospect.
- Team is much worse than when those players were developing.
- The three players mentioned played a total of 60 games in the AHL.

His issues with speed and read of the game is better developed in the NHL IMO. He isn't going to magically gain size, so the AHL is no benefit there. He needs to get NHL game speed built up - which won't be done in the AHL.

 

[Star Platinum]

Man, I sure hope GMMG didn't guarantee a spot on the big club to get him to sign. But you could be right. Yuck.

Who cares? It's not as if he's blocking someone who deserves his spot more. The critique of Smith is that he's not standing out from all the other Sharks that haven't scored yet.

 

[Lebanezer]

It doesn’t track that Marleau, Pavs, Couture, Bernier, Michalek, Setoguchi, Meier, and on and on and on all got to ease into their careers on playoff teams?

While Smith is skating onto an ice sheet covered in dog shit?

These are, without question, the worst two sharks teams since the early 90s, cut the kid some slack.

No.

 

[karltonian]

I don't think that's right. From what I recall when Couture was drafted, he was talked about as a top 5 pick before mono (I think?) hampered his draft season. A definite tier above Eklund and right around what I remember the hype around Smith being pre-draft.

Logan went 9th and that is the only thing that matters as far as pedigree. And again it cannot be overstated how much not having Celebrini is messing things up for Smith at this time. Logan had Joe f***in Thornton dominating above him and Ryane Clowe crushing anything in the vicinity. Smith has absolutely no one as good as either of those guys, let alone the other players that populated the top 6 when Logan came in.

 

[one2gamble]

Smith is fine and is going to be awesome