Post-Game Talk: Game #60: Canucks lose 3-1 to the Leafs - No games until Feb. 26th

[Orca Smash]

It has a lot more to do with the system than the Ranger's talent - AV is making their team play a hybrid man to man, basically the same style we used to. AV is also employing a much more drastic zone deployment using Boyle and Dom Moore for the same duties Lappy/Manny had.

NYR with a very similar roster has 9 forwards with 10 goals or more.

VAN is deploying the a similar system Torts used in NY and all of a sudden we look talent devoid much like they did last year. In comparison only 5 forwards have 10 goals or more.

This roster is in a crossroads in regards to the personnel and the coaching style - IMO regardless of how good Torts is the easiest thing to do is to change the coaching style.

Then why did we have trouble scoring last season as well? This is not a new problem for us. Rangers actually finished the season with more goals then us last year at 15 under torts (currently they are 18th likely due to them, like us having injury and team issues first part of the season, they are playing better now)

Alot of speculation but nobody really knows. Rumors of daniel sedin nursing something as well I seen on botchfords twitter page. Burrows simply looks like a shell of himself after that jaw injury. Henrik is injured, you take out our entire first line in any season and were in big trouble.

 

[BlackAces]

AV firing was an over reaction. Our biggest complaint about him was not using a timeout. This organization has never had more success than under him. Hes turned the Rangers around now too. Hes a much much better coach than the junk we have.

Incorrect. In the last two years of his tenure we were a lazy and unmotivated team. AV lost a locker room which he never had in the first place and the players needed to be held accountable. Maybe Torts isn't the coach we thought we had at the beginning of the season but a new voice was needed behind the bench.

 

[Dissonance]

Some talk that wanting the team to tank is somehow not being a true fan. In fact, a true fan with the best interests of the team in mind has to surely consider the need to deal with the clear rotting core of the team. Players that the team relied on are looking way past prime. And you are not likely to get the type of replacement pieces needed without moving up in the draft. Also there is the thrill of watching a new core build and the feeling of optimism that new talent creates. To me, people that cling to decaying past may want to sound like the true fans but I think many of the long time posters here see the team's best interest as needing to go beyond the reset position.

Good post. I'm not usually in favor of panicking based on a 10- or 15-game stretch, and I used to think we should keep the core and try to muddle our way into the playoffs this year, but the way this team has been playing lately is utterly shocking. Definitely coming around to the idea of drastic changes--if they're at all possible.

 

[Nucker101]

Another win for #TankNation....we'll see if Gillis is on board with how soon guys like Bieksa/Tanev/Henrik are back.

 

[me2]

I pretty much agree with this. I'm not going to blame it all on coaching because I think this group of players has some serious issues, but to some degree it does seem like Tortorella is trying to get this team to play a system that it isn't built for.

Coaching is key in

a) defense (3rd period collapses)
b) PK
c) PP
d) breakouts
e) adapting to your players strengths and weaknesses

Torts is also in charge of the 3rd periods and the constant collapses are on his head as much as anyone else's.

Ordinarily I'm not a great believer in coaching changes solving broken teams but at some point you have to do it just to see if it will improve ie Maurice and wpeg. Also do you want Torts running our rebuild? I do not.

 

[opendoor]

It has a lot more to do with the system than the Ranger's talent - AV is making their team play a hybrid man to man, basically the same style we used to. AV is also employing a much more drastic zone deployment using Boyle and Dom Moore for the same duties Lappy/Manny had.

NYR with a very similar roster has 9 forwards with 10 goals or more.

VAN is deploying the a similar system Torts used in NY and all of a sudden we look talent devoid much like they did last year. In comparison only 5 forwards have 10 goals or more.

This roster is in a crossroads in regards to the personnel and the coaching style - IMO regardless of how good Torts is the easiest thing to do is to change the coaching style.

Regardless of how many guys are scoring 10+ goals, Tortorella had the Rangers scoring more last year than Vigneault is this year, so I'm not sure the argument that Tortorella suppresses offense holds much water. This is especially true at the top end which is the Canucks' biggest problem. Zucarello who is leading the team's scoring would've been tied for 4th on the team last year in points per game at his current pace.

I'm also not sure having x number of guys above 10 goals is really a key indicator of anything. Last year's Canucks had 8 forwards and 10 players who scored at 10 goal per 60 game paces but the offense was still awful.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Then why did we have trouble scoring last season as well? This is not a new problem for us. Rangers actually finished the season with more goals then us last year at 15 under torts (currently they are 18th likely due to them, like us having injury and team issues first part of the season, they are playing better now)

First of all we are scoring at a lower rate than last year.

Second of all last year was entirely against the Western Conference which is much more defensive, while NYR played all their games against the East.

Lastly Kesler being out killed our PP last year. At 5-on-5 we were pretty middle of the pack offensively, being 6th in the Western Conference. We always needed scoring to push us over the top since the cup run, but this year our scoring woes are the most anaemic they've been in over a decade.

 

[vanarchy]

We've been blessed with years upon years of successful play in recent memory. So naturally it is hard to accept that your team isn't a playoff team. That your team is not even a regular season team. It's been a long, long time since I've had this little faith and confidence in the Canucks. It's all part of the cycle. At least the bandwagoners will hop off as they always do in the hard times I guess.

All in all, feels bad, man.

 

[dwarf]

Wow what an ugly low.

If there is 2 games in a year I want to see the Canucks win, its vs the leafs.

If the team can't even get motivated enough to try against the leafs. I have to assume Torts has simply lost the room. No one wants to play for him, and that is where it is at.

If the team isn't motivated to try to win, why should we watch this crap?

I can't believe how bad the team looks in its own zone. I had to turn the tv off in the third. boohiss.

 

[vanarchy]

Any stats guys in here wanna lay out what this team would have to do to make it after the break?

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it would have to be something ridiculous and magical.

 

[bure 96]

On the bright side, all these high flying gangsters (except maybe one) like Chicago, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, SJ, etc are going to end up exactly in the same position as the Canucks at the end of the year. Without a cup.

 

[alcanalz]

We've been blessed with years upon years of successful play in recent memory. So naturally it is hard to accept that your team isn't a playoff team. That your team is not even a regular season team. It's been a long, long time since I've had this little faith and confidence in the Canucks. It's all part of the cycle. At least the bandwagoners will hop off as they always do in the hard times I guess.

All in all, feels bad, man.

Very well said.

On the bright side, all these high flying gangsters (except maybe one) like Chicago, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, SJ, etc are going to end up exactly in the same position as the Canucks at the end of the year. Without a cup.

... is nobody going to win the cup, then?

 

[bure 96]

... is nobody going to win the cup, then?

I did say "except maybe one".

Fun fact: Daniel Sedin has made $1.34 million since he last scored a goal.
And even that goal wasn't one he shot in the net. It went off the other team's player and in.

I think we need a diddsedinscore.com like there was one for Gomez.

 

[Ventana*]

Any stats guys in here wanna lay out what this team would have to do to make it after the break?

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it would have to be something ridiculous and magical.

I heard it was 16-5-1 or something stupid like that, may be a little off tho

 

[John McClane]

This team saddens me. Please come back after the Olympic break and totally destroy. Please. Okay I know you won't. I'd be happy to go .500. Please? Okay not even that? Geez, what do you want from me team? Come on give me something to work with.

 

[Wang Gretzky]

Any stats guys in here wanna lay out what this team would have to do to make it after the break?

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it would have to be something ridiculous and magical.

15-7-0 to get 93 points. That's the low end of what the cut off should be around. So yeah.....

 

[iFan]

Where is Torts post game interviews? Canucks.com has stopped posting them lol I guess Gillis has put an end to that

 

[iFan]

With Burrows in the line-up, Vancouver are 9-17-2.

Without Burrows in the line-up, Vancouver are 18-7-7.

I love Burrows, but that is crazy. Also, Schroeder has only been apart of 2 wins all year.

Schroeder is looking like he'll be having a short NHL career, I don't see a solid top 6 scoring forward in him, there's a reason he dropped that much at the draft.

 

[me2]

... is nobody going to win the cup, then?

"except maybe one"

 

[Cor]

Any stats guys in here wanna lay out what this team would have to do to make it after the break?

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize it would have to be something ridiculous and magical.

Now that things have calmed down, I figured I'd post in here.

To me, you guys need three things

1. To get healthy
2. The Canucks tend to get lazy at times. If you work hard you end up getting the bounces, and I think that is the issue. We had this same issue November and December.
3. Add a young scorer to the lineup. I think you need some youthfulness and some scoring to your lineup. As to who is available? There not so young (30) but Matt Moulson and Tomas Vanek. If this was 3 weeks ago, I would suggest Evander Kane, but they are back in the picture.

Again, not trying to start anything, but these are my honest views. Hopefully no one gets mad at me. Don't think any of these are things you guys don't already know though.

Cheers

 

[Bougieman]

Actually I'm pretty excited about the Canucks right now and all this goal scoring they're doing.

Not GOALS scoring, but GOAL scoring. One a game.

With the way they're playing, I didn't think they could pull off getting a goal a game! Sure showed me. Just goes to show that you shouldn't underrate this team.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Now that things have calmed down, I figured I'd post in here.

To me, you guys need three things

1. To get healthy
2. The Canucks tend to get lazy at times. If you work hard you end up getting the bounces, and I think that is the issue. We had this same issue November and December.
3. Add a young scorer to the lineup. I think you need some youthfulness and some scoring to your lineup. As to who is available? There not so young (30) but Matt Moulson and Tomas Vanek. If this was 3 weeks ago, I would suggest Evander Kane, but they are back in the picture.

Again, not trying to start anything, but these are my honest views. Hopefully no one gets mad at me. Don't think any of these are things you guys don't already know though.

Cheers

1. Wont happen as Santorelli is out for the year and he's been the best overall player on the team (outside of goal-tending) this year.

2. December they were fine but easier schedule. Granted the rest of the way is pretty easy too, but the injuries and no additional scoring help coming... leads us to #3...

3. Not possible. There's no way to add enough scoring now for this year and any type of playoff run without gutting prospects or picks and that would bring down the ire of every fan considering the team is 21st in the NHL right now with 6 games to go before the trade deadline. There simply isn't enough games to figure out if the Canucks even have a hope of making the playoffs before that deadline UNLESS they win every game they play and all the teams around them magically lose every game.

Nice sentiments but this season is toast barring, as i've mentioned, every single player returning to form and 3-4 guys playing above their heads, and they have 6 games to prove that.

 

[onetimer]

Season is a write off. Hope Gillis can make some trades for younger talent for next year. But of course there are a lot of teams trying to do this.

 

[Pip]

With Burrows in the line-up, Vancouver are 9-17-2.

Without Burrows in the line-up, Vancouver are 18-7-7.

I love Burrows, but that is crazy. Also, Schroeder has only been apart of 2 wins all year.

Important to note that our first line centre being out or playing injured skews those numbers a lot. It's hard to fault Schroeder, or Burrows to a lesser extent for the team losing more without their best player. I know it sounds like an excuse, but it just adds some context to those numbers.

 

[bsjezz]

we need a coach who's not a distractionary drama queen