Post-Game Talk: Game #60: Canucks lose 3-1 to the Leafs - No games until Feb. 26th

[KeninsFan]

For being known as such a "great communicator", some veteran players sure look like they are lost under Torterella. Hansen, someone who for his entire pro career has been a top notch forechecker looks absolutely lost. Burrows, someone who has, at the very least provided a good defensive game, looks even more confused.

Obviously these players bare a lot of the responsibility but I wonder with how confused they look by what they are supposed to be doing out there if they have been frozen out by Torts like Weise.

Some players just don't fit systems all that well. NYR fans were going through the same transition with their players like Girardi and AV's system.

A zone defense that collapses would benefit players who are positionally sound and can block shots like Tanev/Girardi. Bigger forwards also benefit because they can win the 1 on 1 battles in the corners or fill up the lanes (like Callahan).

A guy like Hansen is best when he can catch the other team in transition and use his speed in a man to man/hybrid zone defense (AV deployed this). He can easily skate with his check and be tenacious -- the upside to man to man is that a lot of forwards "leak" like we did 2011-'12. When we leaked we had defensemen who could all pass the puck quickly (Ehrhoff, Salo too).

That's when a guy like Hansen can excel, AV used a first forward forecheck system (where LW/C/RW become interchangeable in the offensive zone). This is something Torts could easily do when we're healthy but in this system we created a lot of havoc with our speedy guys, even the Sedins destroyed San Jose in the playoffs (Douglas Murray in partcular, Chara to a much lesser extent).

We're a poorly built Torts team. If we're going with the Sedins forward we need to become a team that thrives on the counterattack or pinching in zone to create 2 on 1s when we cycle. We currently have ZERO transition game.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Just watched the game, what a hilarious gong show.

Burrows and Hansen looked like ECHL players, Daniel could pass for a 39 yr old AHL player...
Hamhuis looks good atleast

 

[Barney Gumble]

Some players just don't fit systems all that well. NYR fans were going through the same transition with their players like Girardi and AV's system.

A zone defense that collapses would benefit players who are positionally sound and can block shots like Tanev/Girardi. Bigger forwards also benefit because they can win the 1 on 1 battles in the corners or fill up the lanes (like Callahan).

A guy like Hansen is best when he can catch the other team in transition and use his speed in a man to man/hybrid zone defense (AV deployed this). He can easily skate with his check and be tenacious -- the upside to man to man is that a lot of forwards "leak" like we did 2011-'12. When we leaked we had defensemen who could all pass the puck quickly (Ehrhoff, Salo too).

That's when a guy like Hansen can excel, AV used a first forward forecheck system (where LW/C/RW become interchangeable in the offensive zone).

We're a poorly built Torts team. If we're going with the Sedins forward we need to become a team that thrives on the counterattack or pinching in zone to create 2 on 1s when we cycle. We currently have ZERO transition game.

I tend to think Torts had the Rangers play that way because due to the limitation of talent on that team - that's the only way they could play. Did Tampa play that way under Torts? I can't honestly remember.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

You seem to forget - it's these SAME vets that got AV canned because of their performance - guys that should've shown more to a coach that was loyal to them. Time to remove some of these players that *both* coaches deserved better performances from. Hansen didn't just suddenly look meh THIS season for example.

Burrows and Hansen had ok seasons last year, at least not abysmal seasons. They've always been good defensively and great niche players and now they look absolutely abysmally lost.

Besides, I don't think it was their performance last year that got AV fired, at least those two players specifically, but rather a bunch of things rolled into one, including a GM feeling the heat and needing to create some sort of "reset".

 

[Lundface*]

I'd like to see Lack get more games to help him develop, but Luongo gives the team a better chance to lose and climb up the draft chart.

 

[KeninsFan]

I tend to think Torts had the Rangers play that way because due to the limitation of talent on that team - that's the only way they could play. Did Tampa play that way under Torts? I can't honestly remember.

It has a lot more to do with the system than the Ranger's talent - AV is making their team play a hybrid man to man, basically the same style we used to. AV is also employing a much more drastic zone deployment using Boyle and Dom Moore for the same duties Lappy/Manny had.

NYR with a very similar roster has 9 forwards with 10 goals or more.

VAN is deploying the a similar system Torts used in NY and all of a sudden we look talent devoid much like they did last year. In comparison only 5 forwards have 10 goals or more.

This roster is in a crossroads in regards to the personnel and the coaching style - IMO regardless of how good Torts is the easiest thing to do is to change the coaching style.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

Sestito was playing really well then Sullivan reduced him to a 4th line goon type role again and he hasn't been the same player since. IMO Sullivan is a horrible coach.

 

[JuniorNelson]

People act like the Coaching gig in Vancouver is a plum assignment. Who is going to accept this roster?

 

[iFan]

Ya problem is the Nucks would need to win the lottery or be worse than the Sabres for that to happen.

I can see the Canucks being bad next year, but the Sabres are some kind of awful.

Saving grace for their season is the stupid Islands gave them a top 5 pick for UFA Vanek.

I was just messing around with the McDavid thing, I know we won't land him.

 

[luongo321]

People act like the Coaching gig in Vancouver is a plum assignment. Who is going to accept this roster?

Any coach that doesn't have a job and isn't making money?

Having said that, I'm fine with Tortz. He can not be blamed for his first line going MIA. Burr and Dan don't score at all.

 

[iFan]

Seriously at this draft Canucks should offer the Islanders Edler for their first for this draft, that means Sabres get next years 1st but atleast they get Edler and a chance to make that pick not as bad.

 

[VanCanucks53]

They said 15-7-0... I have it as 15-6-1 as the likely cut-off (94 points).

That would have to be one big turn around. They certainly aren't as bad as this last month suggests but to go 15-6-1? Seems doubtful to say the least.

 

[vanboy99]

Yeah he should be. It isn't his fault the team that's playing in front of him is complete ****. It isn't his fault that the team in front of him can't score. I tell you what though, when Daniel comes flying down the wing in a Canada vs. Sweden game at the Olympics, Luongo will make the easy crest save.

right luongo is the real victim here. he is clearly the best goalie in the league and has been clearly a difference maker in 3rd periods when the team needs him to pull out a win. all the goals scored on him most nights are clearly unstoppable and none are his fault whatsoever.

Fabio

 

[Type Not Specified]

It has a lot more to do with the system than the Ranger's talent - AV is making their team play a hybrid man to man, basically the same style we used to. AV is also employing a much more drastic zone deployment using Boyle and Dom Moore for the same duties Lappy/Manny had.

NYR with a very similar roster has 9 forwards with 10 goals or more.

VAN is deploying the a similar system Torts used in NY and all of a sudden we look talent devoid much like they did last year. In comparison only 5 forwards have 10 goals or more.

This roster is in a crossroads in regards to the personnel and the coaching style - IMO regardless of how good Torts is the easiest thing to do is to change the coaching style.

I pretty much agree with this. I'm not going to blame it all on coaching because I think this group of players has some serious issues, but to some degree it does seem like Tortorella is trying to get this team to play a system that it isn't built for.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

You seem to forget - it's these SAME vets that got AV canned because of their performance - guys that should've shown more to a coach that was loyal to them. Time to remove some of these players that *both* coaches deserved better performances from. Hansen didn't just suddenly look meh THIS season for example.

AV firing was an over reaction. Our biggest complaint about him was not using a timeout. This organization has never had more success than under him. Hes turned the Rangers around now too. Hes a much much better coach than the junk we have.

 

[BassMason]

 

[Wayward Son]

I see the over reactions are plentiful here.

Torts is not going anywhere, nor should he. What happens next here falls on Gillis.

 

[NuxFan09]

Daniel Sedin: ZERO goals in 19 games. 4 assists in that span. 40 points in 60 games total and on pace for a 54 point season.

Alex Burrows: ZERO goals and only 5 assists in 28 games played this season. Also a -12.

David Booth: ZERO goals in 20 games. 3 assists in that span. 12 points in 44 games total.

Jannik Hansen: 1 goal and 1 assist in 19 games. 14 points in 50 games total.

Henrik Sedin (I know he's been our best player and is injured but only fair to mention him too): ZERO goals in 17 games. 9 assists in that span. 40 points in 52 games total, about a little over a 60 point pace.

Alex Edler: 15 points in 41 games, which translates to a 30 point season. Also -23 on the season.


Astonishing numbers. Folks, the story of this season if you can believe it is NOT injuries. The story of this season is the absolutely putrid play of the core players, especially the forwards.

Coincidentally, the above players, minus Edler, all have experienced goal droughts that go back to before the new year. January 1 seems to be when those guys completely fell off a cliff. Kesler and Higgins have been the team's best contributors since January 1, with an identical 5 goals and 6 assists in 17 games. For Higgins, this is good enough but for Kesler, it's subpar so you can probably even add him to the list of core players underperforming but alas, he leads the team in goals with 20 and hasn't been underperforming to the degree of the aforementioned players.

Still, just a complete and utter disaster all around.

 

[PRNuck]

Yay no more games for a while!

 

[ionicbluebird]

I am pretty certain Torts will not want to go through a rebuild. I would not be surprised to see Gillis trade prospects or picks for a top 6 forward especially if he thinks he is on the hot seat.

All this talk about Gillis not wanting to loose his job and Aqualini not wanting to loose playoff revenues has me scared. I sincerely hope the GM makes the right decision an either A)holds or B)sells at the deadline. The smart thing to do would be sell for youth/prospects/picks as that would A)set us up for the future, and B)cement our tanking (which would ultimately set us up for the future)

In a perfect world we would let go of everyone but the real important parts of our team... those players suited for mentoring.. and the players who don't want to go through a re-build. We then would finish hopefully top 7 this year, draft a pretty good player, and finish top 5 next year (preferably top 1) and draft a really good player, a franchise player.

That would be my goal as GM.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Yay no more games for a while!

I dunno why, but this post made me laugh. It must be you.

 

[yoss]

This is no good, no good at all. I could stomach it more if they at were at least playing well like earlier in the season when they went on a little slump.

Santo was a huge loss, along with Hank and the rest of the injuries of course. Those numbers are ugly as ****, something seriously has to give. I don't know what the deal is but something is off with this team, almost a new low for this core.

Loss to the leafs is the clincher for me.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

This is the worst year to rebuild, we should instead trade most of our picks in 2014 for good players at the deadline

 

[ionicbluebird]

It has a lot more to do with the system than the Ranger's talent - AV is making their team play a hybrid man to man, basically the same style we used to. AV is also employing a much more drastic zone deployment using Boyle and Dom Moore for the same duties Lappy/Manny had.

NYR with a very similar roster has 9 forwards with 10 goals or more.

VAN is deploying the a similar system Torts used in NY and all of a sudden we look talent devoid much like they did last year. In comparison only 5 forwards have 10 goals or more.

This roster is in a crossroads in regards to the personnel and the coaching style - IMO regardless of how good Torts is the easiest thing to do is to change the coaching style.

You seem quite knowledgeable, How would a young, talented, built around Torts's system type of team look?

 

[Edo]

With Burrows in the line-up, Vancouver are 9-17-2.

Without Burrows in the line-up, Vancouver are 18-7-7.

I love Burrows, but that is crazy. Also, Schroeder has only been apart of 2 wins all year.