GDT: Game 59: Sharks @ Jets 4:30pm NBCSCA
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I'm hoping Sturm hasn't been snatched up by another team by the time he inevitably gets canned.
It all boils down TO THIS.
The sharks corsi for in the 3rd period was 23.53%. You read that right. Shots were 12-3. TWELVE TO THREE.
Kuni in the 3rd: 7 shifts, 5:10 TOI
Wennberg in the 3rd: 8 shifts, 6:20 TOI.
Graf in the 3rd: 7 shifts, 5:29 TOI
Sturm in the 3rd: 8 shifts, 5:22 TOI
Smith in the 3rd: 5 shifts, 3:44 TOI.
Zetterlund in the 3rd: 5 shifts, 3:58 TOI.
And just for the giggles, Badrow in the 3rd: 5 shifts, 3:55 TOI
Setting aside Badrow, we can clearly see that both Smith and Zetterlund saw less ice time while their center received an uptick in ice time. Barfosky clearly has this ridiculous, defensive "hold da lead" mindset. This is why we have seen the sharks get shelled in every single one of these 3rd period collapses. Not just outplayed, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY HEMMED IN.
Not only is that in and of itself extremely problematic for the head coach to think in such a cringey outdated way, he also seems to think guys like Sturm and Kunin are "good" defensively, and we constantly see them on the ice in these critical leverage situations, in DZS starts. Sturm is a little less reprehensible, as he is a strong faceoff guy and isnt completely and utterly useless in coverage like Kunin. But he is still a 4th liner, and he has clearly lost a step from when we fist saw him in the 22-23 season.
Even if the sharks had held onto this one, I would have been screaming for this clown's job. How is this acceptable in every freaking 3rd period? The DEFINITION OF INSANITY is "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". That is literally the DEFINITION OF INSANITY. The bumbling meathead clown has not even ATTEMPTED to try a different tactic while entering a 3rd period w/ a lead. 'Is this real life? HOW IS THIS REAL LIFE?
The sharks corsi for in the 3rd period was 23.53%. You read that right. Shots were 12-3. TWELVE TO THREE.
Kuni in the 3rd: 7 shifts, 5:10 TOI
Wennberg in the 3rd: 8 shifts, 6:20 TOI.
Graf in the 3rd: 7 shifts, 5:29 TOI
Sturm in the 3rd: 8 shifts, 5:22 TOI
Smith in the 3rd: 5 shifts, 3:44 TOI.
Zetterlund in the 3rd: 5 shifts, 3:58 TOI.
And just for the giggles, Badrow in the 3rd: 5 shifts, 3:55 TOI
Setting aside Badrow, we can clearly see that both Smith and Zetterlund saw less ice time while their center received an uptick in ice time. Barfosky clearly has this ridiculous, defensive "hold da lead" mindset. This is why we have seen the sharks get shelled in every single one of these 3rd period collapses. Not just outplayed, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY HEMMED IN.
Not only is that in and of itself extremely problematic for the head coach to think in such a cringey outdated way, he also seems to think guys like Sturm and Kunin are "good" defensively, and we constantly see them on the ice in these critical leverage situations, in DZS starts. Sturm is a little less reprehensible, as he is a strong faceoff guy and isnt completely and utterly useless in coverage like Kunin. But he is still a 4th liner, and he has clearly lost a step from when we fist saw him in the 22-23 season.
Even if the sharks had held onto this one, I would have been screaming for this clown's job. How is this acceptable in every freaking 3rd period? The DEFINITION OF INSANITY is "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". That is literally the DEFINITION OF INSANITY. The bumbling meathead clown has not even ATTEMPTED to try a different tactic while entering a 3rd period w/ a lead. 'Is this real life? HOW IS THIS REAL LIFE?
Sharksfan66
Registered User
- Nov 4, 2021
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I know we're kind of all piling on here, but I knew that game was over the second I saw who he started for OT. His response to Sheng's question about this was honestly baffling to me.
I've never believed that teams (i.e, the coach & players) actually tank, but this is as close as I've ever come to wondering if Grier has given him a mandate to not pick up the extra point. I don't know how to explain it any other way.
I've never believed that teams (i.e, the coach & players) actually tank, but this is as close as I've ever come to wondering if Grier has given him a mandate to not pick up the extra point. I don't know how to explain it any other way.
This is another thing I was laughed at for in the Warso thread. The way this guy answers questions to very SOFT reporters in an extremely SOFT market is actually crazy. He has the nerve to get smug and arrogant? Dude just send this fat ass packing already. Holy s***
SJSharksfan39
Registered User
Just finished the game. They got a point on a back end of a back to back against a team that was on a 9 game winning streak. And Celebrini was not responsible for the loss. I call this a moral victory.
Having Celebrini not in to start the OT was head scratching though.
Having Celebrini not in to start the OT was head scratching though.
drunksage
Sphere = underrated?
SNOG announcement
One of our SNOG attempts was a mere 26 seconds away from coming to fruition. Alas...
| # | Date / Opponent | SNOG Winner(s) | Result |
| 1 | Oct. 10 vs Blues | none | Blues 5-4 OT |
| 2 | Oct. 12 vs Ducks | none | Ducks 2-0 |
| 3 | Oct. 15 at Stars | weastern bias | Stars 3-2 SO |
| 4 | Oct. 17 at Blackhawks | weastern bias | Blackhawks 4-2 |
| 5 | Oct. 18 at Jets | none | Jets 8-3 |
| 6 | Oct. 20 vs Avalanche | none | Avalanche 4-1 |
| 7 | Oct. 22 at Ducks | Timo Time | Ducks 3-1 |
| 8 | Oct. 24 at Kings | Friday | Kings 3-2 |
| 9 | Oct. 26 at VGK | none | VGK 7-3 |
| 10 | Oct. 28 at Utah | none | Sharks 5-4 OT |
| 11 | Oct. 29 vs Kings | MackAttack71, bluefunnel, sharks_dynasty | Sharks 4-2 |
| 12 | Oct. 31 vs Blackhawks | none | Sharks 3-2 |
| 13 | Nov. 2 vs Canucks | none | Canucks 3-2 |
| 14 | Nov. 5 vs Blue Jackets | none | Sharks 2-1 OT |
| 15 | Nov. 7 vs Wild | timorous me | Wild 5-2 |
| 16 | Nov. 10 at Devils | none | Sharks 1-0 |
| 17 | Nov. 11 at Flyers | TheBigDrunkPanda | Flyers 4-3 SO |
| 18 | Nov. 14 at Rangers | none | Rangers 3-2 |
| 19 | Nov. 16 at Penguins | PattyLafontaine | Penguins 4-3 SO |
| 20 | Nov. 18 vs Red Wings | none | Sharks 5-4 OT |
| 21 | Nov. 20 at Stars | weastern bias | Stars 5-2 |
| 22 | Nov. 21 at Blues | bullslugg, coooldude | Blues 3-2 SO |
| 23 | Nov. 23 vs Sabres | none | Sabres 4-2 |
| 24 | Nov. 25 vs Kings | none | Sharks 7-2 |
| 25 | Nov. 27 vs Senators | coooldude, PattyLafontaine | Senators 4-3 |
| 26 | Nov. 29 vs Kraken | none | Sharks 8-5 |
| 27 | Nov. 30 at Kraken | bluefunnel | Sharks 4-2 |
| 28 | Dec. 3 at Capitals | none | Sharks 2-1 OT |
| 29 | Dec. 5 at Lightning | none | Lightning 8-1 |
| 30 | Dec. 7 at Panthers | none | Panthers 3-1 |
| 31 | Dec. 10 at Hurricanes | Timo Time | Hurricanes 3-2 |
| 32 | Dec. 12 at Blues | MackAttack71 | Sharks 4-3 |
| 33 | Dec. 14 vs Utah | bullslugg | Hockey Club 4-3 |
| 34 | Dec. 17 vs Jets | SJSharksfan39 | Jets 4-3 |
| 35 | Dec. 19 vs Avalanche | anthonyyy | Avalanche 4-2 |
| 36 | Dec. 21 at Oilers | PattyLafontaine | Oilers 3-2 OT |
| 37 | Dec. 23 at Canucks | Timo Time | Canucks 4-3 |
| 38 | Dec. 27 vs VGK | SJSharksfan39 | VGK 6-3 |
| 39 | Dec. 28 vs Flames | none | Flames 3-1 |
| 40 | Dec. 31 vs Flyers | none | Flyers 4-0 |
| 41 | Jan. 2 vs Lightning | none | Sharks 2-1 |
| # | Date / Opponent | SNOG Winner(s) | Result |
| 42 | Jan. 4 vs Devils | LadyStanley | Sharks 3-2 |
| 43 | Jan. 7 vs VGK | weastern bias | VGK 4-2 |
| 44 | Jan. 10 at Utah | none | Hockey Club 2-1 |
| 45 | Jan. 11 vs Wild | weastern bias | Wild 3-1 |
| 46 | Jan. 14 at Red Wings | none | Sharks 6-3 |
| 47 | Jan. 16 at Blue Jackets | weastern bias | Blue Jackets 4-1 |
| 48 | Jan. 18 at Islanders | TheBeard | Islanders 4-1 |
| 49 | Jan. 20 at Bruins | none | Bruins 6-3 |
| 50 | Jan. 21 at Predators | none | Predators 7-5 |
| 51 | Jan. 23 vs Predators | Great Makohead Shork | Predators 6-5 |
| 52 | Jan. 25 vs Panthers | SJSharksfan39 | Panthers 7-2 |
| 53 | Jan. 27 vs Penguins | none | Sharks 2-1 |
| 54 | Jan. 30 at Kraken | none | Kraken 6-2 |
| 55 | Feb. 4 vs Canadiens | none | Canadiens 4-3 |
| 56 | Feb. 6 vs Canucks | none | Canucks 2-1 |
| 57 | Feb. 8 vs Stars | none | Stars 8-3 |
| 58 | Feb. 23 at Flames | Star Platinum | Flames 3-2 |
| 59 | Feb. 24 at Jets | none | Jets 2-1 OT |
| Rank | 2024-25 SNOG standings | # of SNOGs |
| 1. | weastern bias | 6 |
| T-2. | PattyLafontaine, SJSharksfan39, Timo Time | 3 |
| T-5. | bluefunnel, bullslugg, coooldude, MackAttack71 | 2 |
| T-9. | anthonyyy, Friday, Great Makohead Shork, LadyStanley, sharks_dynasty, Star Platinum, TheBeard, TheBigDrunkPanda, timorous me | 1 |
First time I’ve ever heard blowing a shutout and a lead with 20 seconds left and then losing in OT a moral victory.
It definitely ties into the BS narrative going around the media and certain super fans online. The "goal differential is bettterrrrrrrrrrr". Nevermind the fact that this team gets absolutely caved in every single 3rd period that they manage to have a lead in.
All in all, this guy will end up w/ either a similar or perhaps maybe even worse record than Quinn did w/ the Nikita Ohkotiuk's.
tiburon12
Registered User
- Jul 18, 2009
- 5,271
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It's absolutely wild how unhinged some of you are after losing 1-0 in OT to the best team in the league on the 2nd night of back to backs.....in a season where winning doesn't matter.
I mean, some of this is really tough to read.
I mean, some of this is really tough to read.
SJSharksfan39
Registered User
Expectations remain low. I’m told all the time in this forum that the team is tanking. Maybe I’m starting to accept it and adjust accordingly.
GRANdSharks
Registered User
- Mar 14, 2018
- 119
- 171
Not saying warso, is blameless and he definitely has things to work on, but considering where we were last year to now he has done a really good job developing are guys and implementing a system that keeps us in games most nights. The reality is the team lacks depth and experience to win close games against nhl caliber teams. While this game was a rough, we were 30 seconds away from beating the best team in the league on a second half of a back to back, il take this over any game from last year's team.
If it was a one off, you might be right. But this is a season-long trend of getting absolutely caved in, during the 3rd period, while trying to hold a lead. It speaks to the strategy and tactics of the coach, who clearly believes that it's better to "play not to lose" and go all-in on the "hold on for dear life" approach. He also values certain players as defensive stoppers when they are, in fact, absolutely terrible in their own end.
The best "defense" is offense. We all realize this, but we don't all preach this when it comes to the coach or the team.
tiburon12
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- Jul 18, 2009
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It definitely is a concerning issue, but not one that needs to be ranted about or fixed in February via message board. It's also one that could correct itself over the course of the year. One also needs to consider the adverse effects of firing the coach mid-season.
All things considered, freaking out over this game is far from a logical reaction.
Dude, the season is almost over. It's the same old story in every 3rd period w/ a lead, all season long. I think theres like 2 that we won where we still got outshot/outplayed but we had some PDO luck.
Now, the Jets are a much better team. Sure. And you expect a push. But when your best line was Wennberg/Smith/Zetterlund, and 2 of those players got less than 4 minutes of icetime in the 3rd...it's now the definition of insanity. He keeps going to the grindy plugs, and they keep playing like the tire-fire trash that they are.
If you want to keep him the rest of the way, whatever. Personally I think a message needs to be sent, that this absolute CLOWN-ASS strategy of "hold on for dear life boys!" is not what this team is going to be about, and Barfosky has been such a smug know-it-all prick w/ the media all year long, that he has earned the proverbial "let security escort the fat ass out of here" firing. I mean again...this clown failed upwards. He coached the D group the past two seasons, and somehow, he ends up w/ the job? what? Just admit your mistake as soon as possible and get his stench out of here.
tiburon12
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- Jul 18, 2009
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Look i agree that turtling has failed and it's not a good strategy, but i also don't think we have the offesnive horses to hem a team in and put pressure on them when we have the lead. Instead I could totally see the team doing that, making a bad turnover and having a goal go in the other way.
I know this isn't an apples-apples situation, but remember that game against Vegas where Stone expertly stripped Celebrini of the puck and scored an ENG (maybe Hertl actually shot it)? That has such a high risk of happening if we keep pushing for offense in the 3rd while holding a lead. I dont think Graf, Smith, Mukh, or any of the young guys (save macklin) could bounce back from trying to make an offensive play and costing the team goals if it happened over and over again. We're simply not good enough to not make mistakes, and definitely not good enough to overcome mistakes in game, so i understand trying to limit them by turtling.
You're right that trying the same thing over and over is futile, but I also don't think there is another viable option. Sure, its worth trying, but we shouldn't then be surprised if the team gets its teeth kicked in. If that's the perceived outcome, which again I really think it is, a 2-1 OT loss is better than a 5-2 loss.
timorous me
Gristled Veteran
- Apr 14, 2010
- 2,576
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Not being able to read it--and then having to create this stuff out of pure imagination--makes it all WAY more entertaining.
Dicdonya
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- Jul 21, 2011
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That is really a philosophical question though about what you think is more detrimental to the mental state of our younger players.
What is worse, trying to win the game by playing your game, playing your lines as usual, with the risk that one of our younger players makes a mistake that costs us a win while trying to generate offense.
Or dont play the young players much, minimizing that risk, but also implicitly telling them you do not trust them, and that you think they are not good enough to hold a lead or play in close games.
I dunno, personally when I played sports, that latter option sounds a hell of a lot worse than the former, especially if I was getting benched for a player I thought, or know, was worse than me. Its one thing to lose some minutes to Mcdavid in a close game, and another losing those minutes to Kunin or Goodrow etc.
It would also piss me off even more if it happens and we still consistently lose anyways. Why am I getting benched for a worse player, and watching us lose the game anyways. That would infuriate me and f*** my mental state up a hell of a lot more than making a bad pass or whatever in a tight game and losing because of it every now and again. At least I can learn from and do something about those mistakes, there is nothing I can do watching the Goodrow's of the world piss away leads every single game while I am on the bench.
I think there is also the question of whether you want the young players to learn sooner rather than later how to actually play in those close, meaningful moments of games. Is it better they learn now, while the team has no actual pressure to win, and losing the game sucks but ultimately does not mean a lot. Or would you rather they learn those hard lessons when we actually want to win games and losing games off of mistakes is far more meaningful and thus upsetting.
I dunno I find it hard to believe anyone would honestly say they'd be mentally stronger/happier by sitting and observing the team lose from the bench just so that they themselves are not the one who makes a mistake to lose the game.
tiburon12
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- Jul 18, 2009
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I was the same way and i think today's young athlete still has that competitive drive. Though at some point you have to think that the coaches know they players better than we think we do and might have plans in place we don't know about. Losing a close game on two bad goals sucks, but I prefer to believe in the plan than assuming the worst, as some are. (i sound like Alaskanice lolol)
That last paragraph is a bit of a dramatic representation of an opinion that nobodies owns, no?
By all accounts the team morale is higher and the room is happier than last season. This is a big reason why im not being alarmist when we lose this way. And yes, while I agree with how you would react, it would be disingenuous and premature to judge warso's job developing the young guys over the year before the year is over. Don't you get the feeling the players like him and trust the process?
Either way, I get the feeling we'll see a lot more young guys playing good minutes with fewer going to Goodrow and Kunin types down the stretch.
- Oct 12, 2020
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I agree 100%. You put the exact words I was thinking. It's young guys team now and coach should let them take more responsibility. You can see the frustration from Celebrini, that's why it's even more important to let him go out there and try to make a difference even more. This year is this year, next year they should acquire a lot more help + the kids will be more ready for the challenge.
Dicdonya
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- Jul 21, 2011
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I honestly have no idea how that last paragraph is over dramatic given the context of the post.
We are literally talking about a situation where the player is either on the ice potentially losing the game with a mistake or sitting on the bench watching others potentially make a mistake and lose the game, and then discussing which circumstance we think the young(any) players would rather be in.
I simply stated in the last paragraph I find it hard to believe anyone would choose the bench option, claiming it was better mentally for them, than the on ice option.
What part of that is being overly dramatic.....?
What accounts, honestly I do not know as I do not follow social media, indicate the team is happier and have higher morale than last year? When were those accounts, three months ago when we were still sorta not the worst team in the league, or in recent weeks when we are dead last and have won 2 games out of like the last 17? Which players said that?
Also, and correct me if I am wrong but I am fairly confident I am not, aren't you one of the people that were super afraid of creating a losing culture when discussing tanking a few years ago? Yet you think that this team having high morale while sucking ass and losing a ton of games is a good sign? I think that if morale is high on this team that indicates our players are fine with losing, which would be a warning sign to me that we having a losing culture setting in on this team. They should not be fine, happy or in good spirits about this season.
No I do not see any indication in game that the players particularly love him or trust his process. I see lots of long faces after we lose yet another game, and I have yet to see any interaction with Warsofsky in game with a player that makes me think "wow those guys seem really close and in high morale". Its entirely possible I missed those interactions as I do mainly watch the games after the fact and skip a lot of the stuff in-between whistles however.
Hopefully we do see more youngsters getting important minutes down the stretch, however I do not share your optimism about that actually happening though unless we lose some people before the trade deadline. Coaches rarely change how they operate 3/4 of the way into the season.
Timo Time
73-9
Didn't get blown out my WPG again let's see what's going on at HF-...
LadyStanley
Registered User
wickedwitch
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They'll be frustrated not getting ice time at the end of the game, when it matters, but 1) Celebrini has been getting critical minutes, 2) it won't cause lasting harm unless they lose faith in the rebuild. Both Celly and Smith have shown visible frustration at themselves and their teammates - competitive kids - but I am confident they understand the situation and won't lose faith unless we have another season of this with no progress and no plan to improve.
Celebrini is getting ice at the end of games in critical situations, and so is Eklund, so are we just talking about Smith?
I'm sure they aren't happy but again, not systemic issues for motivation. These kids are gamers and they're at the start of very long careers.
We definitely have a team/coach problem of not being able to hold a lead, but it's equally arguable that at least half the leads we lost, we shouldn't have had. I'm guessing the kids that matter (71, 72, 2, 20) and the vets that matter (96, 73, 21) will do more thinking about what they could have done to hold the lead (Celebrini's 1T that Hellyebuck saved, Smith's breakaway, Toff's post) versus losing faith because the PK unit is being asked to PK the 6 on 5.
If next year we're still bottom 3 and either regress by rarely having a lead or continue to lose leads, Warso gets fired and the kids get their final ELC year with a new coach and some hope. If instead we start closing some of these games out (against some of the best teams in the league!) then we'll be out of the bottom 5 pretty quickly and well on our way as an org.
