GDT: Game # 51 Rangers vs Islanders - 7pm EST - MSG

[duhmetreE]

When I say we can't beat well coached teams, I'm not talking in absolutes. I'm talking about consistently. 'You are what you consistently do', what does that make us?

The best game of our season was against Boston imo, late February. We actually hit people, played with an edge and urgency from puck drop. Just because we did it one game does not mean we are that team.

It's frustrating because they've shown they can play at a higher level. Effort and urgency is non-negotiable... The vets and coaching staff have let us down this season.

 

[effen]

When I say we can't beat well coached teams, I'm not talking in absolutes. I'm talking about consistently. 'You are what you consistently do', what does that make us?

The best game of our season was against Boston imo, late February. We actually hit people, played with an edge and urgency from puck drop. Just because we did it one game does not mean we are that team.

To your continued point: did Quinn coach amazingly well that game? is he a huge amount of the reason they won that game? because if he didn't, the converse isn't true in any one particular game either.

that game in particular is sorta bad though because the Bruins straight didn't show up.

 

[aufheben]

Say it with me, peeps: gradually then suddenly.

 

[effen]

Say it with me, peeps: gradually then suddenly.

Fi---re.... QUINN!

 

[Machinehead]

Say it with me, peeps: gradually then suddenly.

How nauseous I get watching Hajek?

 

[Richard Banger]

Also, maybe we should just not be an east-west rush team seeing as we drafted two golden geese and neither of them skate particularly well.

Like, the Rangers know they can change the system, right?

people like comparing us to becoming the hawks but i think we are going to be more like the kings. just need to find our 2way C stud.

 

[Machinehead]

people like comparing us to becoming the hawks but i think we are going to be more like the kings. just need to find our 2way C stud.

Right, like I would be fine having a globetrotters center who puts up points, whether that's Strome or Zibanejad, but we need a guy somewhere down the middle who does the traditional stuff. Good at entries and shuts lines down.

 

[Edge]

This keeps coming up so maybe I should just say it: it's absolutely not ok that this team gets brutalized on faceoffs on a nightly basis and I don't think anybody in the analytics community has implied that it is.

Here's what we have said:

1) The absolute best faceoff guys in the world lose 4 out of 10, so you can't look at a one-play sample of the other team scoring off the faceoff and say "well, that doesn't happen if we win the faceoff." Nobody just wins the faceoff all the time.

2) Faceoffs don't drive individual performance metrics in a meaningful way. If Player A is better than Player B, but player A wins 0% of his faceoffs and Player B wins 100% of his faceoffs, Player A is still better and will perform better in every stat (except faceoffs).

But as a team, over large samples, yes, it hurts.

I think the challenge with faceoffs is that the when you get to meaningful games, be it playoff games or games with playoff hopes on the line, those are the games where you're fighting for every competitive advantage and any loss in momentum or any inch surrendered can really bite you.

Tonight we saw a faceoff loss that lead directly to a goal. Now, we played like shit, so I don't know if winning that faceoff changes anything. But imagine that same scenario in a 2-1 game, or a game 7. Knowing that it's one more hill to climb, or one more advantage you're giving up is rough.

I can recall at least two crucial games this year, games we needed to win, where we lost a faceoff and subsequently gave up a goal. Those are two games where we made it that much harder to win.

What's weird for me is how our faceoff numbers have declined. Zibanejad, Howden, etc. have all declined in their faceoff abilities. I want to say at this point, Zibanejad is down quite few percentage points over the last several years.

 

[NYRFAN218]

It's been mentioned before and I know it's an extremely small sample size spread out over time but it's gotta be somewhat concerning that this team has played some "big" games against good opponents with playoff implications or what were basically playoff games between the bubble, last Tuesday, and tonight and they've essentially been squashed in every one with their biggest guns MIA. It's 5 games so maybe it just happens to be a coincidence but they were flat in every single one. Is it the team being unprepared? Style of play that doesn't lend itself to games where the space disappears? Effort? I've got no idea but at the least, I was looking for some pushback in any of these games mentioned and there was zero of it across the board.

 

[Edge]

When the movie plays out exactly the same next year, this place is going to be mt vesuvius

Rangers are gonna have to be smart this offseason. They're gonna have to be smart about who they keep and who they move. And if they make a big move, they have to balance the cost with the impact on the roster.

The hard work begins now. Because now is when we start making decisions about how we use our accumulated wealth.

 

[Richard Banger]

Right, like I would be fine having a globetrotters center who puts up points, whether that's Strome or Zibanejad, but we need a guy somewhere down the middle who does the traditional stuff. Good at entries and shuts lines down.

We need another Stepan honestly.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I speak for myself here, but my problem is not them not making the playoffs. Go back and look at my prediction in the early season prediction thread - I said “5th, but it’ll be close”. This teams finish is not the problem.
The problem is the inconsistency of the effort and the lack of time our young players are player. I’m fine losing if we lose on the backs of our young kids. I’m not ok losing with Blackwell playing nearly 20 minutes a night.

I also think that would make the “well there just not there yet” argument hold water. The vets on this team are ones riding, this team is living and dying right now on vets.

And management is ok with all of this, then I’m worrying for the long term outlook of this team.

 

[Machinehead]

We need another Stepan honestly.

You know, that's not a bad idea. Stepan was annoying because he couldn't skate but this whole ass team can't skate.

 

[effen]

I would move on from both Strome and Ziba this year. I'd suspect that's too much turnover for the front office but neither guy forces the issue, outside of Zibs last years hot streak. You're just making an issue your future playoff runs will have to overcome to keep those sorts of guys.

 

[Synergy27]

I think the challenge with faceoffs is that the when you get to meaningful games, be it playoff games or games with playoff hopes on the line, those are the games where you're fighting for every competitive advantage and any loss in momentum or any inch surrendered can really bit you.

Tonight we saw a faceoff loss that lead directly to a goal. Now, we played like shit, so I don't know if winning that faceoff changes anything. But imagine that same scenario in a 2-1 game, or a game 7. Knowing that it's one more hill to climb, or one more advantage you're giving up is rough.

I can recall at least two crucial games this year, games we needed to win, where we lost a faceoff and subsequently gave up a goal. Those are two games where we made it that much harder to win.

What's weird for me is how our faceoff numbers have declined. Zibanejad, Howden, etc. have all declined in their faceoff abilities. I want to say at this point, Zibanejad is down quite few percentage points over the last several years.

Yes, exactly. And like Machinehead said, these things do start to matter over large sample sizes, and also when a team is performing near the margins. 48% vs. 52% doesn’t really matter, and that’s where most of the league sits. 43% vs. 57% starts to matter. 36% tonight?!?

I’m curious to know what this team’s DZ FO% in the final minutes of games they are leading is. It definitely isn’t pretty.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

If the Rangers trade Ryan Strome, and they want another reclamation project who might be able to chip in at center, Dylan Strome will be an option

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I think, to some extent, there's also a disagreement on this team's abilities at the present time, compared to the team's abilities when it's developed and gained experience.

It's kind of like savings bonds. People look at the number on the bonds and they say, "We should be rich! Why the hell are we struggling to pay the bills?"

But the bond hasn't matured yet, so even though it might say $5,000 on it, it's only worth a fraction of that right now.

I don't think DQ will be the coach beyond next season. But I also don't think that we're an uber-talented team that is failing to meet expectations. I really do think we're right about where we should be.

Right down to the slow star and the late season surge ultimately falling short, literally all of this is stuff I talked about on here months ago.

Some people just did not want to hear that. At all. Likewise, I've been saying for close to a year now that some big decisions are looming on the horizon for guys like Zibanejad and Buch, with their being legit concerns about the former. People did not want to hear that.

So at some point, I get the anger and frustration. I feel both as well. But none of this should be a surprise. It really shouldn't. The conversations in April 2021 are not all that different than they were in December 2020.

This is a good post and all more than fair. In your mind, how and when should the expectations ramp?

IMO this team should be (key word) a solid playoff team (i.e. 4-6 in the conference) next year. Yes it takes time for young players to come on line, but I can't help but look at a team like the Leafs who were a borderline playoff team starting in 2016-17 after drafting Matthews and then a solid playoff team starting in 2017-18. Obviously they haven't gotten over the hump in the postseason which we can arguably attribute still at least in to a lack of experience, but they took a big step forward in 2017-18 and kept growing from there.

Arguably the NYR would or should be that bubble playoff team this year under a normal conference setup. My expectation is that they continue to trend positively and grow into a solid playoff team next year with further growth in subsequent years. We can understand that the baking isn't done yet, but there needs to continue to still be progression. And as much as tonight sucked I think they did progress this year.

 

[Machinehead]

I would move on from both Strome and Ziba this year. I'd suspect that's too much turnover for the front office but neither guy forces the issue, outside of Zibs last years hot streak. You're just making an issue your future playoff runs will have to overcome to keep those sorts of guys.

I'm fine with just leaving Strome be because what are you getting for him?

Zibanejad could have value. He puts up points and he's a big righty shot.

 

[effen]

If the Rangers trade Ryan Strome, and they want another reclamation project who might be able to chip in at center, Dylan Strome will be an option

good God no. if for no other reason, 51 hits in 200 NHL games.

 

[Edge]

I speak for myself here, but my problem is not them not making the playoffs. Go back and look at my prediction in the early season prediction thread - I said “5th, but it’ll be close”. This teams finish is not the problem.
The problem is the inconsistency of the effort and the lack of time our young players are player. I’m fine losing if we lose on the backs of our young kids. I’m not ok losing with Blackwell playing nearly 20 minutes a night.

I also think that would make the “well there just not there yet” argument hold water. The vets on this team are ones riding, this team is living and dying right now on vets.

And management is ok with all of this, then I’m worrying for the long term outlook of this team.

My issue with DQ over the last few weeks has been that I feel like we've become so focused on making the playoffs, that we lost sight of the bigger picture on many occasions.

It's three minutes too many for Blackwell here, 4 minutes too many for Howden there, it's starting a game with an AHL line. Fans have every right to question those decisions --- they're bad decisions.

I've actually found myself more annoyed with DQ when our record improved than when our record was bad. For some of the very reasons you touched on.

 

[effen]

I'm fine with just leaving Strome be because what are you getting for him?

Zibanejad could have value. He puts up points and he's a big righty shot.

I'd be okay self renting Strome if we got a 1C to pair with him. The hard part is who you will get to be that.

 

[Edge]

Yes, exactly. And like Machinehead said, these things do start to matter over large sample sizes, and also when a team is performing near the margins. 48% vs. 52% doesn’t really matter, and that’s where most of the league sits. 43% vs. 57% starts to matter. 36% tonight?!?

I’m curious to know what this team’s DZ FO% in the final minutes of games they are leading is. It definitely isn’t pretty.

What's startling is how low the numbers are. And we're talking by previous career benchmarks as well.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

My issue with DQ over the last few weeks has been that I feel like we've become so focused on making the playoffs, that we lost sight of the bigger picture on many occasions.

It's three minutes too many for Blackwell here, 4 minutes too many for Howden there, it's starting a game with an AHL line. Fans have every right to question those decisions --- they're bad decisions.

I've actually found myself more annoyed with DQ when our record improved than when our record was bad. For some of the very reasons you touched on.

Which is why I’m nervous that the management thinks this is ok. This has been DQs problem since he got here - he’s been trying to make the playoffs every year.

 

[Machinehead]

I'd be okay self renting Strome if we got a 1C to pair with him. The hard part is who you will get to be that.

A poem in this thread
And cheese in my belly
Call up Tampa
And ask for Cirelli

 

[Synergy27]

What's startling is how low the numbers are. And we're talking by previous career benchmarks as well.

What’s startling to me is that I think FOs are an indication of other issues. Winning them is less a skill than it is a desire. This team loses so many FOs completely clean that I refuse to believe that they’re putting their all into winning them.