GDT: Game 39. Sharks need to douse the Flames 7pm

[karltonian]

Yes, it’s part of that downside lateral movement also a basic fundamental of being a butterfly goalie stick should be tracking the puck too. He got across and was in a good butterfly but the tops of his pads were off the ice, had his stick of been there wouldn’t of gotten under him

I mean is going hard across for the backdoor a typical butterfly save, or something more desperate? can you find a video of it being done?

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I mean is going hard across for the backdoor a typical butterfly save, or something more desperate? can you find a video of it being done?

It’s such a common save your not going to find an isolated video of it and I’m not going to go spending a bunch of time looking for it.Markstrom had one almost identical against Carolina yesterday and it was common they didn’t bother replaying it Vasi is probably the best at it every highlight he’s either leading with his stick covering 5 hole or paddle down. You can find plenty of videos of down push drills just nothing showing highlights it’s just like making a normal butterfly save these days not like when Giguiere first started doing it

 

[mogambomoroo]

Since the millisecond that Celebrini was announced to the podium as Sharks #1 pick at NHL Entry Draft, I have not cheered for a loss. I will respect that some fans can tolerate the losses because of the better pick, but I can't just naturally cheer for that anymore. With a talent like Celebrini, the room cannot tolerate losing and if someone doesn't contribute to that... there are other jobs in the world. I think as much as this is a developmental or transitional year, it's very important to keep the pressure very high in the locker room that you are either in or out, it's the NHL and they need to start playing like an NHL team. Find a way.

Before we get to conversation about the talent depth, yes Sharks are one of worst teams in the NHL on paper... but there still needs to be a fire when they are on the ice. I'm not excluding Warsofsky, he needs to do a better job with the lines, chemistry and strategies. There is no compete outside of Celebrini and Askarov in this team. They need to wipe this stinking losing stench out of this team asap.

This was more straightforward message for this team, but I'm tired of them losing winnable games... they need to take games like this over. Calgary has been better this year, but the standard should be that Sharks can and will beat teams like this.

EDIT: Yes, I was frustrated. I'm sorry if it bringed bad energy to the boards, that was not the intention. It's just that I really want to see Celebrini be awarded for his contribution and the team realising that they can do better.

 

[karltonian]

It’s such a common save your not going to find an isolated video of it and I’m not going to go spending a bunch of time looking for it.Markstrom had one almost identical against Carolina yesterday and it was common they didn’t bother replaying it Vasi is probably the best at it every highlight he’s either leading with his stick covering 5 hole or paddle down. You can find plenty of videos of down push drills just nothing showing highlights it’s just like making a normal butterfly save these days not like when Giguiere first started doing it

So no video then? I just want to see what you are talking about. Saving a backdoor is pretty much always a highlight so it shouldn't be ignored.

Is it here at 4:12?

If so, totally different situation, it was a PP, askarov was at the top of the crease fronting a shot from the left dot and then had to try to cover a shot from the right dot. He had WAY further to go, it's hardly surprising he had to make a more radical move to get over. And even considering all of that, Markstrom still did not have the stick down during the move, his 5 hole was open.

 

[Shark Finn]

Is it too much to ask for someone to stand up for Celebrini every now and then?

Apparently yes. Glad we have a role player and a leader like Goodrow signed for two and a half more years. He better be great in the locker room.

 

[Dicdonya]

Im over Warsofsky, the fact that he didnt bench 90% of the team this game for repeatedly trying to no look back hand pass into space is a warcrime. Yes I am being hyperbolic but it does piss me off none the less.

This team should be playing in straight lines outside of Celebrini, and never be no look back hand passing to open ice just praying one of our players is actually reading a play correctly. They wont be

None of our players seem to be growing, and several seem to be regressing or playing worse than early in the year, I see no change in the scheme or how the team plays after Warsofsky has had half a season to install his coaching on the team and I am just over him as a coach.

We seem to run no set plays, there seems to be no actual method to the madness on the ice for this team, we only score when individual players do individually good things. Nothing seems to be happening because our coach drew it up that way.

Also I am sick and tired of him allowing our low skilled team to pass up a billion shot attempts per game because they would rather try to make a piss poor pass attempt to someone that isn't even that open anyways.

I was really hoping some fresh blood at the coaching position would yield some promising results, but at this point I do not think it has, and really want us to look for a new coach moving forward.

/end rant

 

[Shark Finn]

/end rant

It's been 39 games for him as a HC on a rebuilding team. Chill.

 

[Dicdonya]

It's been 39 games for him as a HC on a rebuilding team. Chill.

Hey question, why is critiquing the coach not ok after 39 games on a rebuilding team, but you go ahead and talk shit about Goodrow, who has only played 34 games on a rebuilding team?

There must be some magical reason that we can critique and hate on players after a small sample size but not the coach?

Hmmm weird

 

[Barrie22]

Hey question, why is critiquing the coach not ok after 39 games on a rebuilding team, but you go ahead and talk shit about Goodrow, who has only played 34 games on a rebuilding team?

There must be some magical reason that we can critique and hate on players after a small sample size but not the coach?

Hmmm weird

Because goodrow is not a first year player, he has a long career and with 4 years now being a very poor hockey player.

 

[Dicdonya]

Because goodrow is not a first year player, he has a long career and with 4 years now being a very poor hockey player.

4 years?

He had both his highest scoring seasons of his career 3 and 4 years ago, while also being a plus player for both those years, and those two seasons came right after winning two cups as an important role player on Tampa.

In other words, Goodrow has a longer track record of being a useful bottom 6 player over the past 6+ years than he has of being bad (last year and this one).

So why again is it ok to start talking shit about his play, play that is not consistent with his recent career, after only 34 games, on a rebuilding team?

I'm sorry, if you wanna talk shit about players that are struggling on this team, you cannot turn around and absolve the coach of his responsibility in the matter just because he's a rookie.

If we really should not be forming opinions after just 39 games, then you would agree we probably should not be forming any opinions about Celebrini, Smith etc either right? I mean they are rookies, and have only played 39 games on a rebuilding team.

Something tells me though that if I made a post talking about how much I like Celebrini and think he is playing like a player who will be the face of this franchise for the next decade+, nobody would tell me its only 39 games bro chill.

 

[weastern bias]

It's not even just that Wario is a rookie head coach with less than half a season of experience, he's also spent that entire time coaching the least talented roster in the league

To have expected the coach to have gotten consistently strong results out of this group of players is unreasonable, Scott Bowman wouldn't have this team looking competitive on a nightly basis, a rookie HC learning on the job is naturally going to have a really hard time making anything happen with the 2025 Sharks

 

[Barrie22]

4 years?

He had both his highest scoring seasons of his career 3 and 4 years ago, while also being a plus player for both those years, and those two seasons came right after winning two cups as an important role player on Tampa.

In other words, Goodrow has a longer track record of being a useful bottom 6 player over the past 6+ years than he has of being bad (last year and this one).

So why again is it ok to start talking shit about his play, play that is not consistent with his recent career, after only 34 games, on a rebuilding team?

I'm sorry, if you wanna talk shit about players that are struggling on this team, you cannot turn around and absolve the coach of his responsibility in the matter just because he's a rookie.

If we really should not be forming opinions after just 39 games, then you would agree we probably should not be forming any opinions about Celebrini, Smith etc either right? I mean they are rookies, and have only played 39 games on a rebuilding team.

Something tells me though that if I made a post talking about how much I like Celebrini and think he is playing like a player who will be the face of this franchise for the next decade+, nobody would tell me its only 39 games bro chill.

If you think the conversation wouldn't be the same for celebrini and smith, then you have not been paying attention. That is exactly what happens when people call out smith for mistakes and some even go as far as saying he shouldn't even be in the nhl.

 

[TheBeard]

This is a new one for me. They had to reconfigure the chart because of how bad Thrun was last night.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

I'm just asking Warsofsky to try not to big brain himself. He makes line up decisions that are mind boggling to say the least; you can't tell me Scratching Kovalenko was a good idea

 

[TheBeard]

I'm just asking Warsofsky to try not to big brain himself. He makes line up decisions that are mind boggling to say the least; you can't tell me Scratching Kovalenko was a good idea

Hey HEY! We don’t say “scratching” here, we say “development days”.

 

[weastern bias]

View attachment 952914
This is a new one for me. They had to reconfigure the chart because of how bad Thrun was last night.

Thrun is such a funny player

He really has no discernable NHL caliber skills that he excels at, but he went on a stretch collecting points earlier in the year because he IS smart enough to pass the puck to Celebrini streaking through the neutral zone

He's gamified riding on other's costtails, it's almost admirable in its own way

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Free tip to Warso

Celebrini on Askarov: "He's unbelievable. Some of the saves he made, keeping us in that game. Stopping some of those chances. He's been very, very consistently great for us. He's kind of like a brick wall back there. We definitely needed him."

 

[Dicdonya]

If you think the conversation wouldn't be the same for celebrini and smith, then you have not been paying attention. That is exactly what happens when people call out smith for mistakes and some even go as far as saying he shouldn't even be in the nhl.

Haha I really don't know what I expect from here sometimes, I guess you agree you were wrong about Goodrow since you did not bother to disagree with anything I said about him, and of course you totally skip my point about Celebrini in the last paragraph because you know you only care when someone is saying something negative, which is my point there. Proven by the fact you randomly focused on Smith, who I did not even say anything negative about in my post, but you know others have, so of course that's what you want to bring up.

Yeah yeah I have been paying attention, I have seen people say stuff like chill, or give equally vapid responses, to peoples legitimate opinions about Smith's play and whether he should or should not be in the NHL this season.

It's not even just that Wario is a rookie head coach with less than half a season of experience, he's also spent that entire time coaching the least talented roster in the league

To have expected the coach to have gotten consistently strong results out of this group of players is unreasonable, Scott Bowman wouldn't have this team looking competitive on a nightly basis, a rookie HC learning on the job is naturally going to have a really hard time making anything happen with the 2025 Sharks

That did not stop anyone from complaining about Quinn though, and last years roster was WAY worse than this one is, and the year before that the roster was barely, if at all, better than this one.

Heck Quinn at least did something, something that got Karlsson to score over 100 pts and become actually tradeable. Yet he coaches some of the worst Sharks teams ever iced, and is given the boot after two years to thunderous applause.

Yet now that a rookie coach is also coaching a better, but still bad, team to equally bad results, pointing that out and not being willing to give him a long ass leash just because he is a rookie, is somehow a wild take and people who think that need to chill.

Does anyone actually have anything positive to say about his coaching thus far? Or is the only rebuttal to anyone thinking he is not looking like a great coach so far, that he is a rookie so let him cook?

 

[TheBeard]

Does anyone actually have anything positive to say about his coaching thus far? Or is the only rebuttal to anyone thinking he is not looking like a great coach so far, that he is a rookie so let him cook?

I have no opinion yet because 39 games isn't enough time to evaluate a rookie coach. My only criticism is that he's trying to be too much like Quinn in terms of benching kids and juggling lines instead of trying to be his own coach, but I also think he's looking for answers that may not actually be there.

 

[coooldude]

Does anyone actually have anything positive to say about his coaching thus far? Or is the only rebuttal to anyone thinking he is not looking like a great coach so far, that he is a rookie so let him cook?

1. While the record is similar, the goal differential and competitiveness in games has been much higher. This is evident in the stats, from the eye test, and from what other coaches and players are saying about the team. 21 games so far decided by one goal.
2. The structure is better, although last night wasn't a great example.
3. Every time I see someone complain about line combos, within 2-3 games we see a change that tries the thing. Generally he has been very willing to try new things, and to the extent any line isn't awesome, it's usually an injury problem, or a decision like last night that is critique-worthy but probably not winning is the game (Kovalenko for Goodrow). Great example, two games ago many people were very mad about Smith being stuck in the bottom 6. He's been stapled to Celebrini since, and I don't think the line possesses the puck as well as 72-71-73 or -20, but Smith looks a lot better. Instead of saying "I'm glad Warso made the change," lots of whining about Goodrow or "why'd he take so long" when we were also nearly winning 6 of the last 7 games, deserving or no.
4. It's a better lineup, but marginally so. He's got the team playing better hockey, circling back to #1. PP is better, PK is better, 5v5 is better, there is a system in place even if that system yields too many shots against, is still better than last year. Complaints like "there's no offensive flow or possession" are only true about the last few games when, as I have repeatedly stated, we are missing our best LW and our #1D. The team has a low skill ceiling and so the margin for error is thin. You play good teams with a bad lineup with injuries, you're going to have a very thin margin for error. That doesn't really fall on the coach.

More generally, everyone loves to complain about the coach and the third and fourth liners. It's been like this on HFB since I can remember. In a cap era, it's a rare team that doesn't have some dud replacement players in the bottom 6 and the team's success rarely hinges on them. Coaches can be extremely bad or extremely good but the vast majority of them are probably replacement level average themselves in terms of tactics, line combos, and game management. Fans want someone to blame when the reality is, most of the time, the team you're rooting for just isn't very good.

 

[TheBeard]

1. While the record is similar, the goal differential and competitiveness in games has been much higher. This is evident in the stats, from the eye test, and from what other coaches and players are saying

While I agree with most of what you said, I think the goal differential is less on coaching and more on replacing Barabanov, Labanc, Hoffman, Burroughs and Benning with Celebrini, Toffoli, Wennberg, Walman and Ceci.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

So no video then? I just want to see what you are talking about. Saving a backdoor is pretty much always a highlight so it shouldn't be ignored.

Is it here at 4:12?

If so, totally different situation, it was a PP, askarov was at the top of the crease fronting a shot from the left dot and then had to try to cover a shot from the right dot. He had WAY further to go, it's hardly surprising he had to make a more radical move to get over. And even considering all of that, Markstrom still did not have the stick down during the move, his 5 hole was open.

I think you are missing my point which was why I said I was knit picking I’m not saying he should’ve had it I’m saying he could’ve had it. That being said the Markstrom save is the exact same save selection that Asky used hard down push from left to right for a cross ice pass below the circles the major differences being Markstrom kept an incredibly tight Bfly he kept his stick covering 5 hole and flat (why the rebound went to the boards) and he didn’t sit on his heels when he got across so the top of his pads maintained a seal on the ice. I guarantee the next time Askarov is in that situation he makes that stop because he will be covering 5 hole with his stick.

just look at his post work from right to left from his first call up, he would come across flat and off angle and swat at pucks with his glove, that’s completely out of his game now. He’s tracking to be the next great Russian goalie

 

[weastern bias]

Haha I really don't know what I expect from here sometimes, I guess you agree you were wrong about Goodrow since you did not bother to disagree with anything I said about him, and of course you totally skip my point about Celebrini in the last paragraph because you know you only care when someone is saying something negative, which is my point there. Proven by the fact you randomly focused on Smith, who I did not even say anything negative about in my post, but you know others have, so of course that's what you want to bring up.

Yeah yeah I have been paying attention, I have seen people say stuff like chill, or give equally vapid responses, to peoples legitimate opinions about Smith's play and whether he should or should not be in the NHL this season.




That did not stop anyone from complaining about Quinn though, and last years roster was WAY worse than this one is, and the year before that the roster was barely, if at all, better than this one.

Heck Quinn at least did something, something that got Karlsson to score over 100 pts and become actually tradeable. Yet he coaches some of the worst Sharks teams ever iced, and is given the boot after two years to thunderous applause.

Yet now that a rookie coach is also coaching a better, but still bad, team to equally bad results, pointing that out and not being willing to give him a long ass leash just because he is a rookie, is somehow a wild take and people who think that need to chill.

Does anyone actually have anything positive to say about his coaching thus far? Or is the only rebuttal to anyone thinking he is not looking like a great coach so far, that he is a rookie so let him cook?

Quinn had a previous track record of failure and was our coach for 164 games, not just 39, we learned who he really was over a decent sample size, the same is not true of Wario

Also, Quinn did not do a single thing to help Karlsson score 100 points, Karlsson scored 100 points because he was not coached at all and was allowed to play pin ball on the ice in order to write his own ticket out of town

As has been pointed out, Quinn's systems led to one of the worst goal differentials of all time, while this year we have a similar level of talent on the roster and we're playing like a regular last place team, there has been a marked improvement that outpaces the improvements we've seen to the level of talent on the roster, which is pretty marginal

 

[Star Platinum]

Since the millisecond that Celebrini was announced to the podium as Sharks #1 pick at NHL Entry Draft, I have not cheered for a loss. I will respect that some fans can tolerate the losses because of the better pick, but I can't just naturally cheer for that anymore. With a talent like Celebrini, the room cannot tolerate losing and if someone doesn't contribute to that... there are other jobs in the world. I think as much as this is a developmental or transitional year, it's very important to keep the pressure very high in the locker room that you are either in or out, it's the NHL and they need to start playing like an NHL team. Find a way.

Before we get to conversation about the talent depth, yes Sharks are one of worst teams in the NHL on paper... but there still needs to be a fire when they are on the ice. I'm not excluding Warsofsky, he needs to do a better job with the lines, chemistry and strategies. There is no compete outside of Celebrini and Askarov in this team. They need to wipe this stinking losing stench out of this team asap.

This was more straightforward message for this team, but I'm tired of them losing winnable games... they need to take games like this over. Calgary has been better this year, but the standard should be that Sharks can and will beat teams like this.

EDIT: Yes, I was frustrated. I'm sorry if it bringed bad energy to the boards, that was not the intention. It's just that I really want to see Celebrini be awarded for his contribution and the team realising that they can do better.

I never cheer per se for a loss. In fact, I enjoy the few wins that we get more because they are so infrequent. But I look at this team consistently struggle both to not play in their own end and to maintain possession in the other team's offensive zone and that goddamn awful power play and I realize that the only thing that's gonna remove that stench is more impact players. So even if it's not fun watching them lose most of their games, it's necessary for them to add another high draft pick.

 

[CHALUPA]

That did not stop anyone from complaining about Quinn though, and last years roster was WAY worse than this one is, and the year before that the roster was barely, if at all, better than this one.

Heck Quinn at least did something, something that got Karlsson to score over 100 pts and become actually tradeable. Yet he coaches some of the worst Sharks teams ever iced, and is given the boot after two years to thunderous applause.

Yet now that a rookie coach is also coaching a better, but still bad, team to equally bad results, pointing that out and not being willing to give him a long ass leash just because he is a rookie, is somehow a wild take and people who think that need to chill.

Does anyone actually have anything positive to say about his coaching thus far? Or is the only rebuttal to anyone thinking he is not looking like a great coach so far, that he is a rookie so let him cook?

I’ve said this in other threads, but there’s a marked difference between last year’s team coached by Quinn and this year’s by Warsofsky: this team doesn’t quit. They play hard through the full game.

Sheng phrased this well in his article about Kostin going after Pospisil (I think?). This team’s number one priority is not to win. There isn’t enough talent on the roster to do that imo, no matter what systems changes, lineup shifts, etc. that we try. The biggest priority is building a culture and habits that will lead to winning in the coming years. In my opinion, the team playing as hard as they do is the biggest sign that Warsofsky is doing a good job this year.