GDT: Game 35: Sharks vs. Avalanche 7:30pm NBCSCA

The Nemesis

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If you legitimately thought that then you drank Mike's kool-aid.

My point is not about Mack leaving. Good on him. He deserved a chance to be on a contender. But, and I've said this numerous times, there is only ONE reason for Georgie to be getting any games and that's for losses. I would honestly rather they cut bait with Georgie, bring in someone else behind Vanacek (not Askarov). Everything about Georgie on and off the ice seems incredibly demoralizing.

Are you OK? this is pretty strident even for you. The stupid "kool-aid" comment is also unnecessary just because someone disagrees.

I feel like you need to take a time out and decompress because this is not normal.
 

The Nemesis

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I mean the Avs didn't give us a 2nd and Kovalenko because Georgiev is a competitive NHL goalie at this time. Add up georgiev and kovalenko and that's the value of that move even before you consider the 2nd. even if you are keeping score like that it's not too much of a bummer.


honestly it was a decent game against a stacked team. they legit outshot them and had a chance to win it.

I'm under no illusions that he's good now. And at least in the short term the most likely scenario is that he continues to suck. But if they can work with him for the next 2 months and we get to late February/early March and he rattles off a streak of 4 or 5 decent-to-strong games then there's always the hope that some GM who's scare of his backup situation will toss a conditional 7th at Grier or something.

It's a long shot but given that the team is pretty obviously not in the business of winning lots of hockey games this season it's not like having him in net for likely less than 20 starts between now and then is all that damaging to the process.
 

TheBeard

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Are you OK? this is pretty strident even for you. The stupid "kool-aid" comment is also unnecessary just because someone disagrees.

I feel like you need to take a time out and decompress because this is not normal.
it's not a question of disagreeing. They were under the impression that Grier's intention of bringing aboard and playing Georgiev was because they think there's a real goalie buried somewhere in there just begging to be unlocked. He's a bad goalie, a bad teammate and that was all on display tonight.
 

Star Platinum

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I mean the Avs didn't give us a 2nd and Kovalenko because Georgiev is a competitive NHL goalie at this time. Add up georgiev and kovalenko and that's the value of that move even before you consider the 2nd. even if you are keeping score like that it's not too much of a bummer.


honestly it was a decent game against a stacked team. they legit outshot them and had a chance to win it.
They're not really that stacked with all the injuries. Their first line and top defenseman is way better than ours but the rest, meh.

Oh, and their goalie is a lot better too. We should try to trade for him.
 
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TheBeard

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I'm under no illusions that he's good now. And at least in the short term the most likely scenario is that he continues to suck. But if they can work with him for the next 2 months and we get to late February/early March and he rattles off a streak of 4 or 5 decent-to-strong games then there's always the hope that some GM who's scare of his backup situation will toss a conditional 7th at Grier or something.

It's a long shot but given that the team is pretty obviously not in the business of winning lots of hockey games this season it's not like having him in net for likely less than 20 starts between now and then is all that damaging to the process.
There's zero chance of that happening. Zero. I also think 20 starts from here on out is an optimistic outlook.
 

Star Platinum

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I’ve seen some goalies fall on their sword. He literally blamed the team and by using mental and with how he appeared on camera it was like he was calling them stupid… which yeah, some of the D do seem to have low hockey IQ, but to say that after the team played a decent game and you let in two saveable goals to lose the game is pretty damning to me.
Well, that's why he has the reputation of not being a good teammate.
 

TheBeard

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This was one of the first games where it looked like Mack was really trying to will the team to win knowing they couldn't do it without a superhuman effort on his part.
At some point we're gonna rattle off a few wins in a row and he's suddenly gonna start having multiple development days.
 

coooldude

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it's not a question of disagreeing. They were under the impression that Grier's intention of bringing aboard and playing Georgiev was because they think there's a real goalie buried somewhere in there just begging to be unlocked. He's a bad goalie, a bad teammate and that was all on display tonight.
I'm somewhere in the middle.

Colorado needed blackwood. They offered a great deal - a 2nd and a real player, so long as we took a goalie back and sent a depth F.

Georgiev wasn't the point, but he was the cost.

I agree with you that he's a shit teammate and a shit goalie. It's clearly a message sent that we aren't trying to maximize our wins this year. But it doesn't mean Grier actively wants the guys to lose. We got a player in the deal who has actively contributed to us being close in games since the trade, and in fact, until tonight, you couldn't blame Georgiev for pissing away two last minute leads.

Tonight, swap the goalies = swap the result. But we also still had a shot at that win. Everyone may be sick of the recent losses to great teams, but culturally it's clear guys are still learning, having fun, getting better.

It's a tough December. 5 more games. 3 hard ones.

At some point we're gonna rattle off a few wins in a row and he's suddenly gonna start having multiple development days.
Take a deep breath.
 

TheBeard

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I'm somewhere in the middle.

Colorado needed blackwood. They offered a great deal - a 2nd and a real player, so long as we took a goalie back and sent a depth F.

Georgiev wasn't the point, but he was the cost.

I agree with you that he's a shit teammate and a shit goalie. It's clearly a message sent that we aren't trying to maximize our wins this year. But it doesn't mean Grier actively wants the guys to lose. We got a player in the deal who has actively contributed to us being close in games since the trade, and in fact, until tonight, you couldn't blame Georgiev for pissing away two last minute leads.

Tonight, swap the goalies = swap the result. But we also still had a shot at that win. Everyone may be sick of the recent losses to great teams, but culturally it's clear guys are still learning, having fun, getting better.

It's a tough December. 5 more games. 3 hard ones.


Take a deep breath.
I don't even care about losing. Losses will come no matter because we're not a good team. I'm under no delusions about that. But Georgiev is the closest I've seen to playing someone as a subtle attempt to minimize any chance of winning. He was part of the trade. He had to come over, but that's where his involvement with the organization should have ended.

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This seems pretty spot on. Mukh, Walman and Ceci had rough games. Thrun and Ruuta were noticeable in a positive way.
 

DG93

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I don't even care about losing. Losses will come no matter because we're not a good team. I'm under no delusions about that. But Georgiev is the closest I've seen to playing someone as a subtle attempt to minimize any chance of winning. He was part of the trade. He had to come over, but that's where his involvement with the organization should have ended.
Eh, Grier is clearly trying to rehab Georgiev's value especially with Vanecek injured...I'm sure when that fails, his playing time will come down.
 

Star Platinum

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I agree. He was played as an opportunity to show up his old team but everyone knew that wasn’t going to happen.
Eh, for two periods he played pretty well on balance. But I know enough to know that the Sharks with a one goal lead in the third period are immediately going to get hemmed in their own zone for the rest of the game, so my hopes were rather muted.
 
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DG93

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Not even close. Nashville, Chicago and Buffalo are truly terrible teams this season. Sharks can end up drafting 5th-6th overall and missing out on all the higher tier prospects that would instantly be your 2nd best player.
Don't forget Montreal and maybe even Anaheim...
 

TheBeard

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Eh, for two periods he played pretty well on balance. But I know enough to know that the Sharks with a one goal lead in the third period are immediately going to get hemmed in their own zone for the rest of the game, so my hopes were rather muted.
The funny this is neither of the bad goals were those situations. Just quick transitions. The book is out on Georgiev. Has been for a while. He goes down early. Glove high and it's almost a cheat code against him.
 

Star Platinum

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No I get where you're coming from on Georgiev. I just don't agree that Grier acquired him strictly to lose games. This is not based on what Grier had to say - this is based on my general stance on goalies which is that they're fairly random and unpredictable and most prime-aged goalies who have a track record of decent play are reasonable bets to get back to that even if they haven't been doing it lately.

The data supports this stance and there is evidence to suggest that most NHL GMs are generally aligned with it. (For example, Martin Jones got 3 straight contracts from different NHL teams with playoff aspirations - two of whom actually made it - after we bought him out).

I agree that Georgiev appears to be rotten and needs to go. But I'm not convinced Grier saw it that way when acquiring or that Warsofsky sees it that way when playing him. And you do have to acknowledge that Vanecek's injury threw off the plans substantially.
Georgiev has a lot of reasons why he might not be salvageable though. He's a little on the small side for what NHL goalies are these days and with his attitude, you wonder how coachable he is. But it's up to him whether he wants to be playing in the NHL or the KHL next season.
 
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