GDT: Game 33 - Avs @ Dogs - The Ryker's Mullett Memorial Arena - 7PM

[Pokecheque]

The boys were obviously missing their legs. AND really weren't focused. Too many duh moments.

The rink they played on was interesting too. Not an excuse but the corners were quite shallow and those kinds of changes mess up your angles and positioning. And help a d-zone check and pin game like the Yotes played last night.

I dunno, was it even 200 ft in length 'cause the NZ seemed smaller? The NHL has pretty much standardized rink dimensions so places like the original Boston Garden no longer exist. But suddenly one season, you find yourself playing on a rink built on a college campus??

I was musing to myself as to whether the Avs should practice at Honnen or Sertich before heading down to AZ next time. LOL

Yes, it's an NHL regulation-sized rink, you're probably just thinking it looked smaller in areas because the camera angles last night are all different due to them being lower and closer to the ice surface.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I think any improvement in Newhook's production will not come from Newhook himself, but rather the return of players from injury who will bump him a little lower in the lineup and therefore give him softer minutes. Once he's a depth scorer and the opposition has to key in on guys like MacKinnon and Nuke rather than him, he'll put up much better numbers.

Honestly I don't think he's played all that bad. It's just unfortunate that he's very likely not the impact player we were all hoping for.

And I fully believe once the dust settles and the Avs end up swinging for that solution at 2C, whatever that may be, Newhook won't be on the roster anymore.

"It's just unfortunate that he's very likely not the impact player we were all hoping for."

Stated far less eloquently ....... pre-season speculation of Alex as a possible #2C was a massive management intelligence failure. We all had serious doubts and have been proven correct.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Yes, it's an NHL regulation-sized rink, you're probably just thinking it looked smaller in areas because the camera angles last night are all different due to them being lower and closer to the ice surface.

Yeah, it could be the camera angles.

But I followed the goal line out to the boards and then looked at the amount of space behind and how many bodies filled it. I'd have to skate it myself to know for certain. But rink corners differ around the Denver Metro area yet the arena's claim they are NHL sized. The Edge, DU, South Suburban and Promenade all say they are 200 x 85 . Yes, at their maximums. And yet there are slight differences.

Why does this matter? Think about the breakout (left side) and the D's options regarding where he's positioned behind the goal line relative to the immediate d-zone face off circle. If he's right (before) of the dot, he's looking to the winger on the boards. If he's left (past) the dot, he's looking for the swinging center cutting up through the dot.

Run out of corner (or it's filled with forecheckers) and your angles are all messed up.

Sorry for the lecture. I know you know all this already. But to me this is why corner depth matters.

The ice in Mullett arena is exactly the same size as every other sheet of ice in the NHL. The difference is Mullett arena probably has the single best ice surface in the league. It is incredibly hard and fast... and the boards are really fast. It has quickly gained the rep of the best ice surface in the league and will be the new standard.

No offense but that sounds like an NHL commercial...... or press release LOL

So it's better than Rogers in Edmonton? An ice surface in the Arizona Desert versus the Great White North?

 

[Pokecheque]

"It's just unfortunate that he's very likely not the impact player we were all hoping for."

Stated far less eloquently ....... pre-season speculation of Alex as a possible #2C was a massive management intelligence failure. We all had serious doubts and have been proven correct.

I can see why they wanted to try, at least they've come to realize after giving him a fair chance that he's just...not a center. Sure looks like they also believe Mikko needs to stay at wing.

The failure that sticks out most to me is Tyson Jost. If he had even been able to secure even a third line center spot at a marginal level, this entire conversation would be different. Him going full bust really, really hurts in hindsight.

 

[Metallo]

Each team goes through it and with important players. Toronto went a significant stretch without their top 3 defensemen and have had 2 of their top 4 out pretty much the whole season. Carolina has been without their starting goalie and a top line winger for the majority of the season along with another top line winger for a stretch. Avs are far from alone in missing important players.

Toronto is fully healthy at forward and we are also missing half of our top 4. CAR missing Pacs and Andersen is not even comparable to what we are missing right now.

We have been besieged by injuries it's not even funny. Not all teams go through that with that intensity, it's just not true. And nobody is saying the Avs are a unique case. But, right now, the number and impact of injuries has a very tangible impact on the lineup and no team could brush that aside as if it's nothing.

 

[Metallo]

The ice in Mullett arena is exactly the same size as every other sheet of ice in the NHL. The difference is Mullett arena probably has the single best ice surface in the league. It is incredibly hard and fast... and the boards are really fast. It has quickly gained the rep of the best ice surface in the league and will be the new standard.

EJ was not a fan of the ice last night, he said it was ok. Quite easy to have good ice in a brand new arena that doesn't have to deal with 18 000 fans (body) heating the place.

 

[Pokecheque]

Winnipeg is definitely having some very bad luck with injuries themselves, It should also be noted that the Habs will be icing FIVE ROOKIES on their blueline, which is absurd.

Yes, all teams go through injury issues at some point, but it's crazy how unlucky the Avs have been. And what's disconcerting to me at least is that there'd likely be even more guys sitting if the team wasn't so banged up already and these weren't crucial games to keep up in the playoff race.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Yes all teams go through injury issues throughout the season but so far this season besides WAS, TOR and WIN no other team has come close to what the Avs have been going through when considering both the number of injuries AND quality of players missing. WAS and WIN are the closest as far as defense and fwds missing and WAS had twice four losses stretches and WIN is currently 3-6 in their last 9 games while the Avs are 6-2-1. TOR have been hit hard on defense but their top-6 forwards have been extremely healthy so they can outscore their opponent way better then the Avs can. PIT is pretty well in the same boat as TOR in that regard although they have had a few injuries at forward. The Avs' worst stretch has been 3 losses in a row so far.

So no the injury excuse is not getting tiring. It was very real and it is still very real AND still not looking very good for the next 10-12 games.

Some here say their play 5vs5 is concerning but look at which players are missing and it is not really surprising. I am very happy the way the Avs have been able to keep pace so far.

 

[The Merchant]

How has Malgin been?

I've liked him a lot. Fits the Avs' system well. Doesn't matter how good you look if you can't produce, though...much like every other guy that has come through the lineup this season.

 

[McMetal]

Lovebites is a solid band. For Japanese metal I like Mary’s Blood, killer band

So many good power metal bands from Japan. I've been trying to follow that scene more lately, but it's really hard; they often don't do any English language promotion at all. Lovebites does seem to have some international ambitions though, which is encouraging. They're one of the only ones though, most Japanese bands are perfectly content to stay in their home country.

 

[ANewHope]

All teams deal with injury issues but every year there's a couple of teams that stand out from the pack and the injury excuse is valid IMO. Not even with the NHL but across all leagues. Colorado's entire top 6/half of the top 4 D have got hurt at the same time at certain points. Were absolutely one of the few teams who've been hit harder than others.

 

[forsbergavs32]

So many good power metal bands from Japan. I've been trying to follow that scene more lately, but it's really hard; they often don't do any English language promotion at all. Lovebites does seem to have some international ambitions though, which is encouraging. They're one of the only ones though, most Japanese bands are perfectly content to stay in their home country.

Yeah, I’ve noticed that. Mary’s Blood and Aldious don’t do any at all. Which is a shame because they’re great.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Each team goes through it and with important players. Toronto went a significant stretch without their top 3 defensemen and have had 2 of their top 4 out pretty much the whole season. Carolina has been without their starting goalie and a top line winger for the majority of the season along with another top line winger for a stretch. Avs are far from alone in missing important players.

I'd argue these aren't exactly great examples. Toronto has gone on a bit of a run since those defensive anchors went down. Carolina indeed lost their starting goaltender, and then followed it up with a stud prospect who is playing lights out. Sure, every team goes through the injury bug, some worse than others, but I would be shocked if there is a team that has lost more man games over the last three years than the Avs. I don't think the injury excuse has been exhausted yet. Especially when there doesn't appear to be an end in sight.

The ice in Mullett arena is exactly the same size as every other sheet of ice in the NHL. The difference is Mullett arena probably has the single best ice surface in the league. It is incredibly hard and fast... and the boards are really fast. It has quickly gained the rep of the best ice surface in the league and will be the new standard.

Interesting to hear EJ say the ice was meh in that presser.

Edit: lol, guess I just reiterated everything @Metallo said.

 

[henchman21]

Toronto is fully healthy at forward and we are also missing half of our top 4. CAR missing Pacs and Andersen is not even comparable to what we are missing right now.

We have been besieged by injuries it's not even funny. Not all teams go through that with that intensity, it's just not true. And nobody is saying the Avs are a unique case. But, right now, the number and impact of injuries has a very tangible impact on the lineup and no team could brush that aside as if it's nothing.

I just don't buy the excuses of injuries like that. Avs have them and are managing as good teams should, and even with them, they have two of the top 5 players in the league at their respected positions (D and RW).

I think it is a bit quick on half the top 4 too... especially since G is still here, who is at very least a high quality top 4. People toss around the 8-9 number a lot when it is 4/5 major injuries. Byram (who is always hurt), Manson, MacKinnon, Landy, and Nuke. Yeah those are big names to be missing, but they haven't (besides Landy) missed the whole season. Guys like Helm, Cogs, Dermy, Bowers, Kaut, etc don't really mean much to the team winning or losing on nightly basis.

EJ was not a fan of the ice last night, he said it was ok. Quite easy to have good ice in a brand new arena that doesn't have to deal with 18 000 fans (body) heating the place.

EJ probably hates it because it is the fastest ice in the league.

There is more to it than that... they made some really good (and expensive) design decisions that lead to the ice quality.

 

[henchman21]

I'd argue these aren't exactly great examples. Toronto has gone on a bit of a run since those defensive anchors went down. Carolina indeed lost their starting goaltender, and then followed it up with a stud prospect who is playing lights out. Sure, every team goes through the injury bug, some worse than others, but I would be shocked if there is a team that has lost more man games over the last three years than the Avs. I don't think the injury excuse has been exhausted yet. Especially when there doesn't appear to be an end in sight.



Interesting to hear EJ say the ice was meh in that presser.

You can go ahead an argue it, but the fact remains that all teams deal with injuries eventually. Hell, Tampa had Kuch out for a whole regular season!

The Avs are close to the top, but I believe pretty strongly the Avs are one of the most conservative orgs when it comes to injuries. So they are naturally going to nearly top the list. IIRC the last season they were close to healthy was the 48 point season.

Simply put, all teams deal with it and over time teams have to overcome. If you hitch your ride to injury riddled players or it is a circumstance of playing style, teams naturally end up having to deal with that.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

You can go ahead an argue it, but the fact remains that all teams deal with injuries eventually. Hell, Tampa had Kuch out for a whole regular season!

The Avs are close to the top, but I believe pretty strongly the Avs are one of the most conservative orgs when it comes to injuries. So they are naturally going to nearly top the list. IIRC the last season they were close to healthy was the 48 point season.

Simply put, all teams deal with it and over time teams have to overcome. If you hitch your ride to injury riddled players or it is a circumstance of playing style, teams naturally end up having to deal with that.

I can't refute any of that, but I think you're arguing just for the sake of arguing because you love to be the anti-homerism devil's advocate!

Just let us complain about our injuries, dammit!

 

[Metallo]

I just don't buy the excuses of injuries like that. Avs have them and are managing as good teams should, and even with them, they have two of the top 5 players in the league at their respected positions (D and RW).

I think it is a bit quick on half the top 4 too... especially since G is still here, who is at very least a high quality top 4. People toss around the 8-9 number a lot when it is 4/5 major injuries. Byram (who is always hurt), Manson, MacKinnon, Landy, and Nuke. Yeah those are big names to be missing, but they haven't (besides Landy) missed the whole season. Guys like Helm, Cogs, Dermy, Bowers, Kaut, etc don't really mean much to the team winning or losing on nightly basis.


EJ probably hates it because it is the fastest ice in the league.

There is more to it than that... they made some really good (and expensive) design decisions that lead to the ice quality.

Injuries can't be an excuse all the time but with the current situation it's just normal that it's going to bite us in the ass once in a while when the margin for error is close to 0.

 

[henchman21]

I can't refute any of that, but I think you're arguing just for the sake of arguing because you love to be the anti-homerism devil's advocate!

Just let us complain about our injuries, dammit!

Meh... it is a message board, people complain about far worse than injuries here (see reffing complaints). I'm more or less of the conclusion that there is very little chance of the Avs missing the playoffs due to injuries. If you had say both Makar and MacK out for the season, then I'd get it. For a few weeks when the schedule is light... no big deal IMO. Each team has a trying stretch or two in the season, even the very best teams. Just so happened the Avs version was December in general, and the team rose to the occasion winning games ugly. They clearly know how to win.

Now where the injury excuse gets me is when people use it to excuse the poor 5v5 play overall... even when MacK and Rants were healthy. This team has been the 1st line, PP and goaltending all year. That's not the best recipe for long-term success. Even the fairly healthy line of Newhook-ERod-Nuke has had some major issues when rolled as a 2nd line. That's not the fault of injuries... that's a lineup deficiency.

Injuries can't be an excuse all the time but with the current situation it's just normal that it's going to bite us in the ass once in a while when the margin for error is close to 0.

Yeah and that's why they are currently closer to a .600 team instead of a .675 team. I don't see it as a big deal as long as they can avoid Vegas in the 1st round. Beyond that... they'll easily make the playoffs and the team makeup in the playoffs will be far more important.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I just don't buy the excuses of injuries like that. Avs have them and are managing as good teams should, and even with them, they have two of the top 5 players in the league at their respected positions (D and RW).

I think it is a bit quick on half the top 4 too... especially since G is still here, who is at very least a high quality top 4. People toss around the 8-9 number a lot when it is 4/5 major injuries. Byram (who is always hurt), Manson, MacKinnon, Landy, and Nuke. Yeah those are big names to be missing, but they haven't (besides Landy) missed the whole season. Guys like Helm, Cogs, Dermy, Bowers, Kaut, etc don't really mean much to the team winning or losing on nightly basis.

It is still more major players injured than any other teams you included in your counter-argument though except for WAS. Games missed by major players and for a few of them still counting:
Landy - 100%
Byram - 70%
Nuke - 55%
Manson - 36%
Mack - 30%
ERod - 27%
Girard - 18%
Lehky - 9%
Toews - 6%

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

DL8947 (DAL8947) Delta Flight Tracking and History 27-Dec-2022 (KDEN-KPHX) - FlightAware

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IMO this is as much a legit excuse compared to any other, for last nights game.

They didn't even land in Pheonix yesterday until after 1PM, and game time was under 6 hours from when they landed.

Just a messy day all around.

 

[henchman21]

Not s

It is still more major players injured than any other teams you included in your counter-argument though except for WAS. Games missed by major players and for a few of them still counting:
Landy - 100%
Byram - 70%
Nuke - 55%
Manson - 36%
Mack - 30%
ERod - 27%
Girard - 18%
Lehky - 9%
Toews - 6%

Not saying it is more… saying all team go through critical injuries

 

[henchman21]

I don’t think the Avs were bad last night. Was mostly shit goaltending

 

[drhiii]

Agree. Both goalies have been hung out to dry by terrible decision making by the d and fwds on the ice. I mean it's beer nite hockey level knucklehead braining.

But Toews isn't himself and Makar is having to play way more cautious than he has in the past. Both are being drained by too many minutes.

Also agree. Good to hear level-headed observations from knowledgable, experienced, coach.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Not s

Not saying it is more… saying all team go through critical injuries

But you always sound like the other teams' injuries are at the same level as the Avs' which they are not. Almost all teams have less in number or the injuries are to lesser quality players. Also you bring up the point that the Avs are a more conservative org when it comes to injuries. I agree with that comment but regardless if it is self-inflicted or not it does not change the fact that they are playing without those players.

With that said, except for a few posters most here don't use that as an excuse but instead state it as a fact which it is. Most people are very happy with the way they have responded to said injuries but are getting a little tired at the number of injuries.

The reason I personally bring up injuries is in response to posters saying we shouldn't be losing to a team like ARI. As I said before on paper we should still win but it is closer to 50-50 odds right now than the normal Avs-Yotes rosters. Our lineup sucks right now but we are still winning most of our games. Yes it is mostly due to goaltending, PP and Mikko but they are finding ways to win and that is what good teams do. Hopefully they keep it going for a little longer.

 

[henchman21]

But you always sound like the other teams' injuries are at the same level as the Avs' which they are not. Almost all teams have less in number or the injuries are to lesser quality players. Also you bring up the point that the Avs are a more conservative org when it comes to injuries. I agree with that comment but regardless if it is self-inflicted or not it does not change the fact that they are playing without those players.

With that said, except for a few posters most here don't use that as an excuse but instead state it as a fact which it is. Most people are very happy with the way they have responded to said injuries but are getting a little tired at the number of injuries.

The reason I personally bring up injuries is in response to posters saying we shouldn't be losing to a team like ARI. As I said before on paper we should still win but it is closer to 50-50 odds right now than the normal Avs-Yotes rosters. Our lineup sucks right now but we are still winning most of our games. Yes it is mostly due to goaltending, PP and Mikko but they are finding ways to win and that is what good teams do. Hopefully they keep it going for a little longer.

I'm simply stating all teams go through stretches of injuries and they happen to key players... just a matter of when. Good teams continue to play well through them, especially ones with superstars level talents still playing. People were screaming the sky was falling a few weeks ago and I was saying the Avs were going to be fine... they'd just have to play differently and the star players would have to play well. Which is exactly what has happened.

The Avs shouldn't be losing to Arizona even beat up, but weird games happen all the time. I have a longer view of things and tend to ignore games like this. The Avs played well as a team and controlled the play... George just had a stinker (after he's had a number of good games). Shit happens... no big deal losing this game. Now if they lost the next 5 and George was shit in all of them... some concern over his play might creep in, but this team is fine. They'll make the playoffs with ease. Just a matter of where they go from there... where they larger 5v5 issues are of significant concern.

I'd also say injures as a whole are overblown. It is pretty rare (meaning one or so a season) that a team of playoff quality misses due to injuries. Even more rare that a top team in the conference misses. They might hurt seeding, but seeding doesn't really matter IMO.