Half-Assed GDT: Game #3: Blues in SinCity - 10pm Eastern

[Brian39]

Great game from Tarasenko. He was physical, he was moving his feet all night and the shot looked better (still not back to form though).

But I think it is silly to read anything into his performance/demeanor about his desire to stay. Based on the info we have, the issue was never with this teammates or the coaches. Whether he still wants out or has decided to stay, he absolutely has incentive to play and act exactly like we saw last night. All summer I have been saying that I don't expect Tarasenko to pout and that I expected him to behave like a pro if he didn't get traded. This is exactly what I expected from him and this is exactly what his agent would have been telling him to do if he still wants out. This isn't a situation where he could look at the landscape and honestly believe that the Blues were misrepresenting the offers they have received for him. He wasn't selected by Seattle. They felt that Dunn at $4M AAV for 2 years was a better selection than him at a $7.5M AAV for 2 years. Publicly, his agent was trying to pressure the Blues into moving him for whatever the best offer was. But when that didn't happen, there is every reason to believe that there was an honest conversation where his agent told him "fair or not, you need to boost your trade value on the ice."

Maybe his desire to get out was overblown by his agent and he's changed his mind. It is certainly possible, but nothing about the last month suggests it is any more likely than him simply being a good pro and doing his part to facilitate his trade request.

I think his agent badly misplayed his hand and I am fully in Army's corner regarding the handling of Tarasenko. I'm also not holding any of that against Tarasenko. This is a business and Army treats it as such. This organization has greatly benefitted from Army's willingness to behave that way. I'm not going to be mad at a player for also treating this sport like the business it is. He is doing what he feels is best for him and his family, so there is no ill will from me. I want him to have success. I want to see the old 35+ goal scoring Tarasenko. I'll be wearing my #91 jersey on Saturday and cheering as hard as I can for him. I hope he gets a pop of support and no boos. I hope that the Tarasenko we saw last night is the one we get moving forward. But I'm not going to take it as evidence that he no longer wants to be moved. I'll be thrilled if that's the case, but this is the attitude I expect from him whether he wants out or not.

 

[AVictoryDive]

Anyone know if theres a condensed version of this game? Can’t find anything yet because I passed out before the game started

 

[elkranio]

Anyone know if theres a condensed version of this game? Can’t find anything yet because I passed out before the game started

https://www.dtmts.com

 

[AVictoryDive]

https://www.dtmts.com

Appreciate it but I was thinking more of the game without the commercials/intermission stuff.

 

[Brian39]

I thought this was Neighbours' least impactful game by a decent margin. I didn't expect him to be ready for time in the top 6 and his play was in line with my expectations. i completely agree with @Majorityof1 about his on-ice performance, but I disagree that he is showing that he shouldn't stay with the NHL club. I think he has looked like a capable bottom 6 NHLer and I honestly don't know whether his skills/skating development will be better served staying on the NHL roster or going back to junior.

With all of that said, I'm in no hurry to rush him back to junior. If he hits a wall and looks out of place in the bottom 6 by the 9 game mark, then send him back. Otherwise, I'm fine burning a year of his ELC and letting him stay up here for the first 39 games of the NHL season. Army has demonstrated time and time again that he can get great cap numbers for RFAs who don't have arbitration rights. I'm not all that worried about the cap hit off his ELC and my bigger concern is UFA eligibility. If he is back to junior before we hit our 40 game mark, he doesn't accrue a year toward UFA. We can keep him on our roster all the way up until the World Juniors without him accruing a year toward UFA. That arguably puts the team in a better negotiating spot for contract #2 than sliding his ELC a year and pushing the negotiation back a year.

If the team thinks his development is best served by working with our staff at our facilities, then I'm fully comfortable with him getting a multi-month audition playing in the bottom 6.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

He's still only 19. What he needs is a skills coach to improve his edgework, speed, stickhandling, and shooting.

I figured @Majorityof1 would agree with this post, given his attitude toward Neighbours. I'm going to have to defer to those who've watched him play more than I.

His NHL compete level is already there, but I've yet to see his offensive skill. The Vegas game is the first time I've consciously watched Neighbours skate. I had to dig up highlights cuz I missed the first 2 periods, but he has a long stride that really isn't that powerful yet. He kinda labors to get back at times and was noticeably left in the dust by Tarasenko's burst.

If his legs can't get to him to where he knows he needs to be, then Jake's ceiling may be 3rd line.

 

[Majorityof1]

I figured @Majorityof1 would agree with this post, given his attitude toward Neighbours. I'm going to have to defer to those who've watched him play more than I.

His NHL compete level is already there, but I've yet to see his offensive skill. The Vegas game is the first time I've consciously watched Neighbours skate. I had to dig up highlights cuz I missed the first 2 periods, but he has a long stride that really isn't that powerful yet. He kinda labors to get back at times and was noticeably left in the dust by Tarasenko's burst.

If his legs can't get to him to where he knows he needs to be, then Jake's ceiling may be 3rd line.

I do. More than a skill's coach, I think he needs positive reinforcement for making slick plays. If he works his ass off this season and gains 5-10% speed boost. He is still slow by NHL standards. He is not going to see the benefit of that hard work. If he practices for days so he can pick the corners with his shot, an NHL goalie is still gobbling that muffin up no matter where it is. So what's the point of the work if it isn't leading to tangible on-ice benefits. Kid's clearly a hard worker. You can see it. So I am not worried he is going to stop working. I am worried he will continue to work on the things giving him success and keeping him on the roster, while ignoring the things that he really needs to work on to become more than a 4th liner. Putting him down a level (which unfortunately we can't) or two, will allow him to see the benefit from those incremental increases in his offensive game. With enough incremental increases, he may approach something close to NHL top 6 ready in those areas.

Also, when you need to make big changes to something, a lot of times you need to re-work the things from the ground up. I am no expert here, but he may need to make some fundamental changes to his stride or shot. Doing so will make him worse before he is better. There is no incentive to do so when he is fighting for every second of NHL ice time. There is when he is dominating the OHL but knows he needs to be better next year to earn a spot in the NHL.

 

[Xerloris]

Bingo. There’s some real nice pieces there but I don’t think it works well in the aggregate.

Nearly blew it vs a Mac/Landy-less Avs team. Gave up 4 goals vs an impotent Arizona team. Gave up 43 shots vs a Stone/Pacioretty-less Knights team.

So far three not-so-impressive performances.

I’ll give them time to come together. I know it can take 10-15 games to fall into a groove. The 3-0 start has definitely bought them some time as well.

How so? We beat Arizona and squeaked by two team's missing 2/3rds of their top line. Let's not plan the parade or make room for the President's trophy just yet. Its nice that we banked points on the road. The team looked good for long stretches. But it is just 3 games early in the year.

This is absurd, you're downplaying the Blues good play and 3 wins because the other team had a couple injuries but last year the Blues were trash because we couldn't beat these healthy teams while we were icing half an AHL team because of injuries.

My post game thoughts are pretty much the same as last time other than a complete 180 degree turn from Scandella.

Faulk- He was ok today. The stats aren't pretty but the eye test says he must be damn tired from carrying....

The eye test says he was good, not "ok"

Krug- He continues to be bad. He had 90+% offensive deployment, and still managed to have a sub-50% FF%, sub-50% xGF%, and a even 50% CF%. He totally misplayed the 2-on-1 leading to the goal. He dropped to the ice in a spot and position that neither stopped the shooter, or the pass. So he effectually took himself out of the play. As the commentator said, every NHL player could make the pass through him laying on the ice in that spot.

I love how this is being blamed on Krug and everyone forgets that Saad blew his coverage at the point which lead to the 2 on 1. I've seen plenty of 2 on 1's that involved stalwart defenders like Parayko and Pietrangelo that ended up in the back of our net and no one cried about it like they are with Krug.

Scandella - Ugl...wait, no, he played really good. Despite getting 0 o-zone face offs, he still had a ridiculous 72.6 xGF% and some dangles. This was night and day from last game. He was moving his feet, and active and engaged on defense. If he can play close to this this more consistently, then we will have a shut down pair and be in pretty good shape. Part of his good night was that we weren't on the PK for long, or particularly under fire during it.

Barby - RobThom- Vladdy - Best line of the night. Thomas was making great passes. Tarasenko looked engaged and hungry. Barbashev was digging out pucks and making good passes and some defensive plays.

Saad- ROR - Perron - This line has our two best players night in and night out. Glad Saad got a goal back to make up screwing up his coverage to allow the 2-on-1. Because other than that mistake, they were near flawless.

Boat Anchor - Schenn - Kyrou - It is no surprise that the only goal this line produced was when Neighbours was on the bench. Neighbours has no business on a scoring line. He dragged them down hard. Worst Cf%Rel, 3rd worse xGF%Rel, 2nd worse HDSF%Rel. The only one worse on any of these was Schenn because he was tied to Neighbours. Neighbours had no Fenwick events, hits or take aways. The only way you'd even know he was out there was because of a single blocked shot and because the announcers were pumping his tires for being 19. He's not lost, he just doesn't have anything resembling an NHL-level offensive skill.

Forgot to add that it also took Pietrangelo turning the puck over directly to Krug and having a 3 on 0. You're right though, it totally had to do with Neighbors not being out there.

Kostin - He at least hit people and created some turnovers, had 2 scoring chances, one of which was high danger. He was far better in his 10 minutes even given lesser linemates. He should be in the top 9 for Buchnevich's 2nd game out.

For all the shitting on Neighbors you're doing you seem fine with Kostin taking an offensive zone penalty in the 3rd period which could have easily cost us the game.

Binnington - Great game, but man can he give a fan heart palpitations with some of those rebounds. Good job by the team cleaning those up so they didn't bite us. Otherwise, he stood tall (figuratively, as he was in the butterfly for some of it) while being under constant fire.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

Last night was a really fun game to watch, even though it was low scoring. High event hockey is the best sport out there.

I sorta mentioned this before, but I really do think that all the COVID restrictions messed with our team over the last two years. This team won as a team in 2019. They clearly have a bunch of guys that cared about each other and enjoyed hanging out together. I think one of the reasons our team looked like ass in the bubble as well as last year was that we weren't able to build that camaraderie that we depended on during the SC run year. This year they actually get to spend time with each other and I think we're seeing the dividends of that on the ice.

On to the individual comments:

I'm going to start with Scandella - I give him a lot of shit, but last night he brought the goods. He didn't have to defend Patches and Stone, but you can only play the teams on your schedule and all that. He had a great game defensively overall. Him and Parayko looked solid.

Krug and Faulk are trouble. I'm not sure we can have our top "offensive" pairing have all these negative advanced stats without it coming back to bite us in the ass at some point. After three games they have an enormous offensive zone start slant, yet in every possession and expected metric they are underwater. Not a good look.

Tarasenko played really well last night. He might not get traded this year, but I think he still wants out. Maybe a Last Dance sorta situation, which could behoove the team though. Either way, he has EARNED a huge ovation from the crowd on Saturday. Dude has been a pillar for the team and from what I understand (I don't live in STL anymore) for the community as well. This might be his last home opener in this sweater, let's remember all he's done for us over this last decade.

Thomas and Kyrou are the future of this team. Thomas needs to shoot more, no doubt. I love that he's becoming more defensively responsible, even getting a little PK time. And man alive if our team could shoot he'd have about 15 assists right now. The dude just hands out dimes and doesn't ask for change. What more can be said about Kyrou - the kid's just magic. Hope he keeps it up all year long. Confidence is so big in this game, and when he's got his, it's really fun to watch.

I think Kostin played a really solid game. I think his penalty was a pretty soft call, but I'd rather see a guy get called for leaning on dudes and using his body then always being behind the play and reaching with his stick. Just needs more reps.

Neighbours - I like this kid a lot. You can tell he thinks the game at a really high level, he has a crazy high motor, and isn't afraid to stick his nose in it. That play he made late in the game to get the puck out was something even veterans struggle with, and he did it as a 19 year old rookie. He makes the right play at the right time -a lot-. That said, his "skills" are in need to polish. Where should he go? Wherever the Blues feel is best for him to work on those skills. Is it in the NHL with our coaches? Ok great. Is it in Juniors with constant conversation/updates from our coaching staff/development peeps? Great. But that's clearly what he needs to focus on overall.

Great start to the season, REALLY nice to bank some points against the Avs and Knights, even with them shorthanded. Let's all enjoy a few days off then HOME OPENER BABY!

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Completely agree. I may be in the minority but I don’t think Neighbours should stick after 9 games. Like you said, the offensive skill isn’t there yet for the scoring line and I don’t think he has the strength for the 4th line.

He works hard but I don’t see much happening. Some positives here and there but overall the numbers haven’t been ideal.

I’m ok with him focusing on being a dominant offensive player in the WHL this season and then getting stronger in the offseason.

Neighbours will be a tremendous middle 6 forward eventually. I’m just not sure he has a role now.

Edit: I don’t know why I initially felt like this would be a controversial take. Of course he’s probably not ready for the NHL. He’s a 19 year old taken in the bottom of the 1st round. These guys usually take 3 years before they’re NHL ready.

That’s not quite how I see it. I see a guy that still is deferring to his linemates too much. Multiple times he is in the right place to make the play, just trying to make a pass too many instead of shooting. That strikes me as a temporary problem. It was blatantly noticeable that he has Berube’s trust, in the way he was deployed down the stretch last night. That’s pretty remarkable to me. I see his offensive production to be a less important factor in whether he stays up, and his defensive reliability and work ethic as the bigger issues for the powers that be. From that standpoint, I doubt they send him back to juniors. It will certainly be an interesting decision, and it is coming on fast with 3 games down already.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I do. More than a skill's coach, I think he needs positive reinforcement for making slick plays. If he works his ass off this season and gains 5-10% speed boost. He is still slow by NHL standards. He is not going to see the benefit of that hard work. If he practices for days so he can pick the corners with his shot, an NHL goalie is still gobbling that muffin up no matter where it is. So what's the point of the work if it isn't leading to tangible on-ice benefits. Kid's clearly a hard worker. You can see it. So I am not worried he is going to stop working. I am worried he will continue to work on the things giving him success and keeping him on the roster, while ignoring the things that he really needs to work on to become more than a 4th liner. Putting him down a level (which unfortunately we can't) or two, will allow him to see the benefit from those incremental increases in his offensive game. With enough incremental increases, he may approach something close to NHL top 6 ready in those areas.

Also, when you need to make big changes to something, a lot of times you need to re-work the things from the ground up. I am no expert here, but he may need to make some fundamental changes to his stride or shot. Doing so will make him worse before he is better. There is no incentive to do so when he is fighting for every second of NHL ice time. There is when he is dominating the OHL but knows he needs to be better next year to earn a spot in the NHL.

It's kind of a weird spot the Blues are in when it comes to Neighbours. I wish he could go to Springfield, but he can't and is not going back to juniors. It's nice to see how he's been deployed so far, but I'd like to see him in the bottom 6. Park him on the 4th line all season and coach the things you mentioned and he'll be ok. Schwartz was better for it.

 

[Brian39]

This is absurd, you're downplaying the Blues good play and 3 wins because the other team had a couple injuries but last year the Blues were trash because we couldn't beat these healthy teams while we were icing half an AHL team because of injuries.

It's not absurd to provide the context of a 3-0 start in response to a claim that the 3-0 start is making anyone who picked them as a bubble team look stupid. Buffalo is also 3-0 and leads the NHL in goal differential. No one is saying it was stupid to say they are a bottom feeder.

It's a long season. We have gotten off to a great start, but we also have some troubling trends and underlying metrics within that start. It is totally reasonable to pump the brakes on calling people stupid for predicting us as a bubble team in a good division.

 

[Reality Czech]

my takeaway from this whole event is maybe Petro wasn’t super popular in that locker room after all…? He got super triggered really quickly by Schenn. So odd.

Cam Janssen mentioned on his podcast way back that Petro isn't the kind of guy to pick up the check very often, and I never got the sense he was "one of the boys" off the ice. Obviously he was respected and was a good leader and player from a hockey point of view, but I wonder if there is some truth to what you are saying. I gotta say I really enjoy seeing him get burned when he plays against us...thanks for the assist on the GWG Petro!

I'll admit I wasn't fully on the Kyrou bandwagon from the start, but I'm a believer now. Man is he fun to watch. He makes it look easy most of the time, which is the sign of an elite player. A lot of his success stems from the fact that he has confidence to carry the puck and make plays. I don't think a lot of defenders expect a young guy to just come right at them like he does, and with his skillset and speed he always seems a step ahead of most other players.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Last night is why no one should have worried about how the locker room would handle Tarasenko. There are plenty of negatives you can say about Vladi, but when players step on the ice, they play for each other. Him sticking up for Schenn is proof of that.

It was a beautiful thing. He not only stood up for Schenn, he LUNGED at Pietrangelo.

Pietrangelo made a string of mistakes in that sequence and got owned by Schenn.

 

[Majorityof1]

This is absurd, you're downplaying the Blues good play and 3 wins because the other team had a couple injuries but last year the Blues were trash because we couldn't beat these healthy teams while we were icing half an AHL team because of injuries.

Holy exaggeration. Nobody is downplaying how well the Blues played. They just haven't proved the pundits who said they weren't winning the cup wrong after 3 games.

The eye test says he was good, not "ok"

No, he was just ok this game by my eye test. But whatever. I call him good when I think he's good.

I love how this is being blamed on Krug and everyone forgets that Saad blew his coverage at the point which lead to the 2 on 1. I've seen plenty of 2 on 1's that involved stalwart defenders like Parayko and Pietrangelo that ended up in the back of our net and no one cried about it like they are with Krug.

There is a difference between facing a 2-on-1 and playing it correctly, but getting beat. It's a 2-on-1, odds are in the other team's favor. Its different when you completely take yourself out of the play and turn a 2-on-1 into a 2-on-0. The odds are a lot better that 2 NHL players will score when the shooter can either shoot or pass with no pressure form the D. A well played 2-on-1 may have a 35% chance to score. A 2-on-1 played that poorly has a 70+% chance to score. (obviously pulling stats out of my ass to illustrate the point). Goaltending and NHL defense is about playing the odds. Take away the high percentage shots and you do well. Occasionally you get beat, just like occasionally you don't get beat when you make the wrong play. But if you keep making the wrong plays, it will kill you over time.

Forgot to add that it also took Pietrangelo turning the puck over directly to Krug and having a 3 on 0. You're right though, it totally had to do with Neighbors not being out there.

Schenn and Kyrou created other situations where they had the advantage. They just couldn't convert because there were only 2 of them. It took all 3 forwards for that goal. Neighbours blew a few chances when he led someone to much on a pass, or fumbled the puck. Also all 3 forwards led to the turnover. Schenn checked Pietrangelo to start it which pushed the puck up the along boards. There it was Kyrou fighting for the puck and Tarasenko back checking which pressured Pietrenagelo into the errant pass to Krug. All 3 forwards recognized this and jumped up the ice. All 3 touched it before it was a goal. I am fairly confident in saying that goal doesn't happen with Neighbours instead of Tarasenko.

For all the shitting on Neighbors you're doing you seem fine with Kostin taking an offensive zone penalty in the 3rd period which could have easily cost us the game.

I am. It wasn't a really good call. Even if it was, he provided far more good than bad. His stick wasn't in the guys skates. It might have been around his thighs He was playing tight on the player, the player fell down and he got called. That happens when you are playing hard. But his hits created turnovers and opportunities far more than Neighbours affected any aspect of the game.

 

[jura]

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I don't think @Majorityof1 is shitting on Neighbours at all. I love the kid's game, but he needs refinement. He has a lot to work on.

Kostin is doing ok, I guess. Some good chances, his speed got him to where he needed to be and luckily he went to the high-danger area, but that penalty.....oof.

It may have been a weak call, but @PocketNines provided evidence of Kostn's poorly-timed penalties. The game was tied 1-1 in the 3rd period.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't think @Majorityof1 is shitting on Neighbours at all. I love the kid's game, but he needs refinement. He has a lot to work on.

Kostin is doing ok, I guess. Some good chances, his speed got him to where he needed to be and luckily he went to the high-danger area, but that penalty.....oof.

It may have been a weak call, but @PocketNines provided evidence of Kostn's poorly-timed penalties. The game was tied 1-1 in the 3rd period.

Kostin got dinged on a f***ing make up call. Give me a break (not necessarily directed at you Chicago). It was a minute after the penalty on Krebs ended. If Kostin wasn't playing, the next Blue who got close to a Knight would have gotten the penalty. As for Kostin's track record, when players play hard and physical, they get more penalties. Its a trade off you make for what that physical play gives you.

 

[Zezel’s Pretzels]

It's not absurd to provide the context of a 3-0 start in response to a claim that the 3-0 start is making anyone who picked them as a bubble team look stupid. Buffalo is also 3-0 and leads the NHL in goal differential. No one is saying it was stupid to say they are a bottom feeder.

It's a long season. We have gotten off to a great start, but we also have some troubling trends and underlying metrics within that start. It is totally reasonable to pump the brakes on calling people stupid for predicting us as a bubble team in a good division.

I feel like the truth is in the middle.

Anyone here or elsewhere who is now proclaiming the Blues Cup contenders already obviously needs to meet reality, but there were numerous pundits (Sean and Dom at the Athletic, for example) whose Blues projections made me think they were on something. I don't know how any knowledgeable hockey analyst could compare rosters, strengths, weaknesses, and question marks for each team in between Colorado and Arizona and slot the Blues below the 4th best team in the division. I think the first three games prove that this team is an upper half of the Central team - a favorite to make the playoffs.

 

[mw2noobbuster]

my takeaway from this whole event is maybe Petro wasn’t super popular in that locker room after all…? He got super triggered really quickly by Schenn. So odd.

Well, he was pretty much the lone reason why that goal happened in the first place. I would be pissed too lol.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I think the folks who had Seattle projected higher than St Louis are the ones who may need to adjust. This Blues team isn’t perfect, but it looks capable of playing a pretty good game. They’re hard to defend down the line-up. And Binnington is good enough to make other teams have to earn their goals.

My takeaway from this week is that the Blues are ready to play hockey. I’ve watched games from several teams who were lumped into the playoff contender group who are NOT ready. Banking 6 points is a good thing.

But most of all, I’ve been reassured that this will be a fun team to watch this year.

 

[BlueMed]

I think the folks who had Seattle projected higher than St Louis are the ones who may need to adjust. This Blues team isn’t perfect, but it looks capable of playing a pretty good game. They’re hard to defend down the line-up. And Binnington is good enough to make other teams have to earn their goals.

My takeaway from this week is that the Blues are ready to play hockey. I’ve watched games from several teams who were lumped into the playoff contender group who are NOT ready. Banking 6 points is a good thing.

But most of all, I’ve been reassured that this will be a fun team to watch this year.

Over the offseason, Colorado took a step back, St. Louis took a step forward, and Vegas stood pat. I do think St. Louis can play with these teams again, and undoubtedly have a better roster than Nashville, Minnesota, Dallas, and some other teams that were placed ahead in the predictions. This forward group has incredible depth, and I'm excited to see this team take a stand against anyone this season.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm not reading too much into the first 3 games, aside from them being motivated and ready to have a good year. It's clear last season left a bad taste in their mouth and they put work in over the summer, players and coaches. This doesn't mean they can sustain this play for the entire season, but it's always nice to start strong and collect points against good teams, even if they were without some star players.

 

[Spektre]

The Blues scored 3 goals but 9 players had a point. This team is built for everyone to contribute. James Neal is the only player on the roster to not have a point through 3 games and he's only played 2. Five players have 1 point and the rest have 2 or more. That's definitely spreading the offense out. It's early but have to just play all year the same way.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Tarasenko's legs were still strong late in the 3rd. So glad to see that.