Post-Game Talk: GAME #21 - Flames extinguish BRUINS 2-1 - Now 4-5 at home :(

[Gee Wally]

I don't doubt it.

And I'm not saying he'd garner some sort of massive return or anything. His value is probably less than Sweeney thinks it is, and more than most of this board does. He's still young, on a nice contract (this season), has a history of production, albeit in fits and spurts.

On a team that can live with his defensive weakness but tolerate them enough to let him center a line with two quality wingers, I think some teams see a productive player there.

Certainly not all teams are going to be fans of the player. I don't think he's a guy teams will bend over back-wards to acquire. Some teams would likely have zero interest. But I'm not surprised at all that there are teams who see potential in Spooner.

Sweeney does or else I'd wager he'd of been moved already.

For me theres the rub. What Sweeney and Neely see value in on this roster. To me thats the main issue. I think whats in the cupboard is pretty good. But what the table is set with right now is ham and eggers once you get past 4 or 5 core players

 

[toasterjam]

I mean I don't care one way or the other if Spooner is overrated or underrated by fans. He had a great season last year...49 points.
Point is..the deciding factor on Spooner is ALL confidence. When he has confidence, he is flying around the ice, making amazing passes, super dangerous on the PP. Oozes skill.

No confidence, well..he is a weak center and for the most part a nonfactor, not strong on pucks, can't get anything going. That's how he has looked this season. Overthinks, hesitates too much, avoids physical play.

He is clearly being sent a message getting demoted to 4th line...and really just thrown all around. It does seem that he is held to harsher standards than some of the other guys.

Anyway...another month of being juggled around and having Hayes, Nash and Beleskey as key linemates probably isn't gonna work for him.

I like Spooner and want him to do good but it just seems like it's all confidence issues with him and when he has no confidence it could get bad. So if that is the version of Spooner we are getting this season, then ok trade him now please....don't wait.

I remember how difficult a process it was for him to even establish himself on the team and that fear of being benched with every mistake. Only got a shot when injuries piled up (Krecji I think) and Clode didn't have many options. Him and Clode clearly don't gel, I hope we can still get something of value for him and I think he will do great somewhere else. His speed and offensive skills are very very good.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

I can see Spooner going to a team and playing in the top 6 and doing well in an open system. That pass yeterday he made cross ice to Beleskey I think it was him, does not matter insert and low skill guy as recipient. Sure maybe a slapper from a low angle would have made everyone happy, it has been so successful all year with everyone else. Give him Pasta on that play and the kid knows what may come and instead of running into the deeman and taking yourself outta the play, maybe just maybe get open and one time it at the net from the crease.

Guys like those 2 play the game on another level from the plugger-mucker types who take no gambles and produce little. Basically like what we have now, save boring hockey, hope it bouces off 3 players and dribbles in the net. Other teams seen what Spooner can bring in a purely offensive mode last year and will exploit us for it. We will get another Hayes a safe guy, up and down the wing dump no chase, back up collapse, rinse repeat. He won a spot by out outplaying, Koko now he is getting Koko'd again.

 

[LSCII]

To me Spooner is the most overated player around these parts since Andy Hilbert.

JAG.

I think he's better than what we've seen here, tbh. I also think his game is limited. But the issue is that even after all is said and done, he hasn't really truly been given an honest shot at playing, and playing his true position. It comes down to Claude again and his insistence that every player having a solid two way game. Other teams don't operate that way. They find ways to maximize a player's skills and talents, while working on everything else. Here Claude will only give you time if you play solid d first and foremost. Which is why you get the veteran players who bring no upside being allowed to make the same mistake over and over again, yet a young guy getting benched for far less.

 

[BruinDust]

For me theres the rub. What Sweeney and Neely see value in on this roster. To me thats the main issue. I think whats in the cupboard is pretty good. But what the table is set with right now is ham and eggers once you get past 4 or 5 core players

And I don't disagree.

I still like Boston core forwards. 37-46-63-88-42 to me are a solid Top 5 F. Heck, Bruins comprised 2/3 of the best line on the planet 8 weeks ago.

Pastrnak is having an absolute break-out season, Krejci isn't 2011/2013

Krejci but he's still a solid No.2 C when he's on his game.

Backes didn't become bad overnight, he was the best Blues forward on a team that went to the West Semis just 6 months ago for my money and I watched a fair bit of Chi-St.L and St.L-Dal. I don't think he's being used correctly or the way he was sold on when he signed in Boston. I'm starting to wonder how Backes is fitting in room, he's a strong personality. He doesn't look happy out there, at all.

All but Pasta have underachieved thus far for whatever reason.

After that, you have a bunch of guys who "might" be part of the solution, and a few who are simply part of the problem.

Belesky if he plays every game the way he played last night, is an effective player, but he needs to be used correctly with the right line-mates.

Czarnik has shown enough to me to be given perhaps an expanded role, he's inconsistent but he makes things happen out there.

Schaller and Moore have exceeded expectations.

Then you have Nash, Spooner, and Hayes. Nash is the definition of a JAG, and should only be on a scoring line in an emergency. Instead he's being asked to effective center a line that needs to score. Hayes is Hayes, Spooner with this coach and roster is a square peg in a round hole.

The D, to me Chara, Carlo and Krug are part of the solution. I like what Liles has brought to the 3rd pair as a savvy veteran puck-mover mentoring young players. Both Morrow and Colin have looked good alongside him IMO. Morrow alongside Kevan is a different player. For a player 2nd among D in possession driving plays and was tied for 2nd in shots when he was scratched, Colin's treatment has been criminal. Simply put, Claude doesn't appreciate his skill-set. I don't know if he's ever a top 4 guy, but his skill-set is needed on this team a lot worse than the skill-sets of Kevan and McQuaid, who I've called out numerous times for severely over-rated in terms of their defensive abilities. We all know they have zero to offer in the offensive zone.

 

[LSCII]

How about trading Clode...I'm tired of seeing talent escaping us? Seguin, Vesey, yes Koko...Soon to be Spooner. Stupid bruin toughness and defensive mentality going to sink them over and over....

Bigger question is why they were okay giving a spot on the roster to Czarnik, yet wouldn't guarantee one to Vesey?

 

[BruinDust]

I can see Spooner going to a team and playing in the top 6 and doing well in an open system. That pass yeterday he made cross ice to Beleskey I think it was him, does not matter insert and low skill guy as recipient. Sure maybe a slapper from a low angle would have made everyone happy, it has been so successful all year with everyone else. Give him Pasta on that play and the kid knows what may come and instead of running into the deeman and taking yourself outta the play, maybe just maybe get open and one time it at the net from the crease.

Guys like those 2 play the game on another level from the plugger-mucker types who take no gambles and produce little. Basically like what we have now, save boring hockey, hope it bouces off 3 players and dribbles in the net. Other teams seen what Spooner can bring in a purely offensive mode last year and will exploit us for it. We will get another Hayes a safe guy, up and down the wing dump no chase, back up collapse, rinse repeat. He won a spot by out outplaying, Koko now he is getting Koko'd again.

If teams want to see what Spooner offensively can do in the right environment (i.e. at center with quality wingers) all they need to do is watch video of Lucic-Spooner-Pastrnak in late 2014-15, or that stretch last season when Krejci went down, and Spooner stepped up his game big time as the 2nd line center.

Julien's complete and total reluctance to play Spooner with Pasta is baffling and it's not, because it comes down to one thing, he doesn't trust those to together defensively, and could care less about the offense those two could bring together. In a lot of ways, Julien's reluctance to pair them together despite past success, but his insistence to rarely break up his lines despite failure, defines the problem with Julien.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

I hear that a lot. 'Well Pens made a change last year'.
Yup. But honestly look at this roster and look at their roster. C'mon.

Well of course they had a better team on paper but the point is they DID something instead of doing the same thing and expecting different results. That actually explains the last few years. Remember the Pens were bad, everyone said Crosby looked cooked trying to be a checker, Kessel was awful in that system, leaf fans were having a heyday. Malkin and Letang were not healthy most of last year and Fleury stunk. We have a better foundation right now with Rask alone.

They added some speed and traded slow guys out and played younger guys which blossomed under Sully. A breathe of fresh air came in and new tactics and no one expected them to win the cup and go on that 2nd half tirade. We need to break up the stale old boys club that we have firmly entrenched, almost cult like. The present core is getting on and Julien has not prepared the next core at all. I do not expect a cup lol thats crazy talk but a step in the right direction is needed. Still think the upper management is tinkering with Sweeneys vision, if not then maybe a clean sweep is needed. We are 6 pts up on the last place Isles. It is not too late to turn it around and to early to panic yet but it may be coming by xmas. We will know if Chara comes back and Morrow is sitting then it will be obvious, young guys ask for a trade before you are old.

 

[LSCII]

If teams want to see what Spooner offensively can do in the right environment (i.e. at center with quality wingers) all they need to do is watch video of Lucic-Spooner-Pastrnak in late 2014-15, or that stretch last season when Krejci went down, and Spooner stepped up his game big time as the 2nd line center.

Julien's complete and total reluctance to play Spooner with Pasta is baffling and it's not, because it comes down to one thing, he doesn't trust those to together defensively, and could care less about the offense those two could bring together. In a lot of ways, Julien's reluctance to pair them together despite past success, but his insistence to rarely break up his lines despite failure, defines the problem with Julien.

There's so much truth in this post that it makes me equal parts happy and angry. I just don't get how people cannot see that Claude is a huge part of the problem. This is the same ****ing guy that wouldn't play Loui Eriksson with David Krejci for two ****ing years. and when he was finally forced to, LE puts up 30 goals. The guy drives me nuts with how dumb and stubborn he is.

 

[BruinDust]

There's so much truth in this post that it makes me equal parts happy and angry. I just don't get how people cannot see that Claude is a huge part of the problem. This is the same ****ing guy that wouldn't play Loui Eriksson with David Krejci for two ****ing years. and when he was finally forced to, LE puts up 30 goals. The guy drives me nuts with how dumb and stubborn he is.

Remember how Julien kept Eriksson alongside that glorified 3rd liner in Soderberg for two whole seasons, because of some vaunted chemistry they had.

Yet refuses to play Spooner at C with Pastrnak as his winger despite the chemistry they showed together.

Chemistry apparently with Julien is a two-way street, or an excuse, or both.

 

[LSCII]

Remember how Julien kept Eriksson alongside that glorified 3rd liner in Soderberg for two whole seasons, because of some vaunted chemistry they had.

Yet refuses to play Spooner at C with Pastrnak as his winger despite the chemistry they showed together.

Chemistry apparently with Julien is a two-way street, or an excuse, or both.

I'm still firmly convinced that the loss in the cup finals to Chicago was due to Claude being too stubborn and refusing to play DK and Jagr together, despite them having had incredible chemistry in international play. Nobody can convince me otherwise.

 

[BruinDust]

I'm still firmly convinced that the loss in the cup finals to Chicago was due to Claude being too stubborn and refusing to play DK and Jagr together, despite them having had incredible chemistry in international play. Nobody can convince me otherwise.

Yup, instead after Horton re-injured himself in Game 1 and was largely ineffective the rest of the series, Julien kept him on line 1, when he could of easily moved Jagr there (who wasn't exactly lighting it up with Marchand and Bergeron) and Seguin back with 37-63 instead of him on a line with friggin' Paille and Kelly.

Or how about when the Habs were pillaging the Bruins 2nd pair of Bartkowski/Mezsaros + Boychuk all series long, meanwhile the teams leading playoff scorer at the time, Krug, languished on the 3rd pair with Kevan Miller. He did eventually make the switch, too bad it took until the 3rd period of game 7.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

How about trading Clode...I'm tired of seeing talent escaping us? Seguin, Vesey, yes Koko...Soon to be Spooner. Stupid bruin toughness and defensive mentality going to sink them over and over....

So Clode's the GM now?

 

[Gee Wally]

So Clode's the GM now?

Thank you !

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I mean I don't care one way or the other if Spooner is overrated or underrated by fans. He had a great season last year...49 points.
Point is..the deciding factor on Spooner is ALL confidence. When he has confidence, he is flying around the ice, making amazing passes, super dangerous on the PP. Oozes skill.

No confidence, well..he is a weak center and for the most part a nonfactor, not strong on pucks, can't get anything going. That's how he has looked this season. Overthinks, hesitates too much, avoids physical play.

He is clearly being sent a message getting demoted to 4th line...and really just thrown all around. It does seem that he is held to harsher standards than some of the other guys.

Anyway...another month of being juggled around and having Hayes, Nash and Beleskey as key linemates probably isn't gonna work for him.

I like Spooner and want him to do good but it just seems like it's all confidence issues with him and when he has no confidence it could get bad. So if that is the version of Spooner we are getting this season, then ok trade him now please....don't wait.

I remember how difficult a process it was for him to even establish himself on the team and that fear of being benched with every mistake. Only got a shot when injuries piled up (Krecji I think) and Clode didn't have many options. Him and Clode clearly don't gel, I hope we can still get something of value for him and I think he will do great somewhere else. His speed and offensive skills are very very good.

Where, in your fantasy league?

-9, only Talbot & Hayes were worse on B's. 98th in the league in scoring. How is that a great season?

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Where, in your fantasy league?

-9, only Talbot & Hayes were worse on B's. 98th in the league in scoring. How is that a great season?

He also spent a lot of the year playing with Beleskey and Hayes. Of course he was a minus.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

There's so much truth in this post that it makes me equal parts happy and angry. I just don't get how people cannot see that Claude is a huge part of the problem. This is the same ****ing guy that wouldn't play Loui Eriksson with David Krejci for two ****ing years. and when he was finally forced to, LE puts up 30 goals. The guy drives me nuts with how dumb and stubborn he is.

Great entertainment!

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Thank you !

Either Claude or Spooner has to go. Spooner is worthless if he's playing with garbage players. I'd rather get a new coach than see Spooner join the list of players better utilized by other teams.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He also spent a lot of the year playing with Beleskey and Hayes. Of course he was a minus.

Belesky was a +6. How'd that happen?

There was also that 42.8% on faceoffs, worst on the team.

 

[Gee Wally]

Either Claude or Spooner has to go. Spooner is worthless if he's playing with garbage players. I'd rather get a new coach than see Spooner join the list of players better utilized by other teams.

To me Spooner needs to go regardless for whatever you can get. Hes simply not an NHL center in my book. Weak, cant perform in the circle, cant handle the C defensive assignments. You can get by being one dimensional in junior and to a certain extent in the AHL. But not here. Unless you are a top 5 sniper or playmaker.
Which he aint by a long shot. Hes a JAG.

Whether Julien goes with him or not isn't pertinent to me.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Belesky was a +6. How'd that happen?

There was also that 42.8% on faceoffs, worst on the team.

Because when Beleskey wasn't with Spooner and Hayes, he was with Krejci and Pastrnak.

 

[toasterjam]

Where, in your fantasy league?

-9, only Talbot & Hayes were worse on B's. 98th in the league in scoring. How is that a great season?

wait so Spooner getting 49 points in his first full season isn't great? Becuase he was a -9?? What the ****?

5th on the team in scoring..I don't know what people were expecting out of him last season but I thought he did great. Played to his strengths very well and the team looked better with his speed.

Was looking for him to be a key guy this year and so far..like almost all our other forwards, has not performed well.


I get people don't like Spooner, he is very different than the other types of guys we have. Isn't physical, can't play a shutdown role and his defensive abilities need work (he is 24). Maybe he can work on that part of his game but reality is...it's just not the kind of player he is but that doesn't mean he has nothing good to offer a team. Even with his current slump I wouldn't question his skill, passing, creativity and speed. Those good attributes that he does have didn't just disappear, like I said in the other post, I think it's purely confidence...and probably linemates too.

He isn't ready to drive a line and needs good wingers to be successful...that's where he is at. If it looks like it isnt working with the bruins (which it looks like) then ****ing move him before it's too late...that's all I'm saying.

Just silly to say he didnt have a great year last season..or are we gonna next start defining what you mean by "great" and what I mean is "great".

Maybe "Great" for you is a 60 point center for his first full year as a 23 year old...ok...I thought GREAT was 49 points for Spooner...a coming out year showing fans and coaches the type of offense he can bring...he really helped the PP last year too. Maybe your expectations for Spooner were wayyyyy too high. He is what he is...wasnt drafted for his physical game or defensive awareness...drafted for offense/skill and when he is playing confident, he brings that...I doubt he gets back to form playing with Hayes, Beleskey, Nash, Schaller...just trying to be real and accept the guys flaws...he clearly isnt ready to run a line himself.

 

[Gee Wally]

Claude Julien 'not satisfied' with Ryan Spooner's game

Ryan Spooner was demoted to the Bruins' fourth line in Friday night's 2-1 loss to the Calgary Flames.

That didn't change at practice today, as he was skating in a burgundy bottom-line jersey alongside Dominic Moore and Jimmy Hayes. Julien was curt when asked what Spooner could do to regain a top-six role.

"You're going to have to ask him," Julien said. "Obviously, you know, I'm not satisfied with his game right now, so he can answer for himself."

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._julien_not_satisfied_with_ryan_spooners_game

 

[Gee Wally]

Ryan Spooner is falling short of expectations

Spooner’s game is leaking oil in all areas. He’s not scoring. He’s having trouble, especially on the wing, finding room to rev his wheels and push back defensemen. Spooner’s defensive coverage, so-so at best, has crumbled to the point where extended cycles by opposing players have become a regular thing.

Amid the decline of his game, Spooner’s become an on-ice version of Edward Snowden: a man without a home. The center position he believed he would play behind Patrice Bergeron and Krejci has been ceded to Riley Nash. He’s played out of position at left wing on Lines 2 through 4 with similar results, which is to say not much of them. On every shift, Spooner looks terrified of making a mistake.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...xpectations/zziZxVjulEZGYhq2vH0XqI/story.html

 

[Silva]

To me Spooner needs to go regardless for whatever you can get. Hes simply not an NHL center in my book. Weak, cant perform in the circle, cant handle the C defensive assignments. You can get by being one dimensional in junior and to a certain extent in the AHL. But not here. Unless you are a top 5 sniper or playmaker.
Which he aint by a long shot. Hes a JAG.

Whether Julien goes with him or not isn't pertinent to me.

couldn't agree more with your thoughts about Spooner. he has never done anything for me, and I'd love to see him traded and give his spot to a kid like Cehlarik. Spooner is never going to cut it in Boston. Lacks the defensive awareness, below average at faceoff circle, and has no physical aspect to his game. He's usually a one trick pony, but even that trick has gone missing this season. This isn't on Claude.