GDT: Game 2: Ducks @ Flames

[Markus078]

Whole transition game was awful. Not enough speed or stick to stick passes. Too many safe plays caused us to give puck up. I though dsp was terrible on penalty kill and Getzalf was too soft on 2nd goal. 2nd line looks like its not working but I don't blame Bonino just no chemisty. Don't touch 1st or 3rd line but I would start rotating players on 2nd/4th.

Bonino is playing his role on that line. The problem is that neither Bobby nor Selanne play well togehter offensivly. Bonino has to keep the line safe and he is very good at it. If we need a center who can carry that line while keep it safe we need a 1st line type of center.

I agree, the first and the third look set. So what are the options for the second? It's just Holland or Bonino. Bonino is the better defensive forward, Holland the better offenisve one. But both are not great at both sides. If we have to break lines I'd switch Teemu and Kyle.

 

[AngelDuck]

I think Palmieri's speed is helping Getzlaf out. Don't see the point in moving KP off that line.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Exactly, I don't get it. The 4th line has looked sharp with Rakell at center, and I'm not in favor of bumping him to the wing for Bonino. I get the rookie argument, but you play the players who have earned their minutes. Like you (Exit) said perfectly a few days ago, "Boudreau got famous as a coach for his ability to take calculated risks with younger players and get good results."

The 4th line is the only minus line on the team while being somewhat soft on the forecheck and frequently being hemmed into their own zone - "sharp" isn't an accurate term for them. While Rackell has played with admirable poise for his age, neither he nor Holland have honestly done anything whatsoever to "earn" a promotion to the 2nd line.

 

[Exit Dose]

Eric Stephens ‏@icemancometh

Final: Ducks 5, Flames 4. Ducks go to 2-0. Only other time they've done that was ... you guessed it. That '06-07 season.

 

[Pahlsson26]

The 4th line is the only minus line on the team while being somewhat soft on the forecheck and frequently being hemmed into their own zone - "sharp" isn't an accurate term for them. While Rackell has played with admirable poise for his age, neither he nor Holland have honestly done anything whatsoever to "earn" a promotion to the 2nd line.

I never said the line looked sharp, I said Rakell has looked sharp centering the line; and he has. And in this particular argument, I never said Rakell has done something to earn a spot on the 2nd line. He's done well as a 4th line center, and shouldn't be demoted due to another player's inconsistencies. Replace Bonino with Holland, but don't make Rakell a casualty of the line changes. Save for the minus rating, there isn't much of a case for him to be demoted.

Eric Stephens ‏@icemancometh

Final: Ducks 5, Flames 4. Ducks go to 2-0. Only other time they've done that was ... you guessed it. That '06-07 season.

Didn't we start 12-0-4 that season, and set the record for earning points in the first 16 games? Also, it's sad that with the exception of two seasons, the Ducks have never started 2-0.

 

[Corey Perry*]

The 4th line is the only minus line on the team while being somewhat soft on the forecheck and frequently being hemmed into their own zone - "sharp" isn't an accurate term for them. While Rakell has played with admirable poise for his age, neither he nor Holland have honestly done anything whatsoever to "earn" a promotion to the 2nd line.

This.

 

[Corey Perry*]

I never said the line looked sharp, I said Rakell has looked sharp centering the line; and he has. And in this particular argument, I never said Rakell has done something to earn a spot on the 2nd line. He's done well as a 4th line center, and shouldn't be demoted due to another player's inconsistencies. Replace Bonino with Holland, but don't make Rakell a casualty of the line changes. Save for the minus rating, there isn't much of a case for him to be demoted.

Here ya go:

The 4th line has looked sharp

You said the 4th line has looked sharp with Rakell at center. That means you think the 4th line has looked sharp, in part of Rakell. That's not the same as saying Rakell has looked sharp, while centering the 4th line.

 

[HanSolo]

The 4th line is the only minus line on the team while being somewhat soft on the forecheck and frequently being hemmed into their own zone - "sharp" isn't an accurate term for them. While Rackell has played with admirable poise for his age, neither he nor Holland have honestly done anything whatsoever to "earn" a promotion to the 2nd line.

If I'm comparing the way Holland has played in the AHL to the way Bonino has been fumbling around, I give Holland a look against Vancouver. Not a permanent spot but definitely a look.

 

[12ozPapa]

I wouldn't mind seeing:

Palmieri - Getzlaf - Perry
Winnik - Koivu - Selanne
Ryan - Rakell - Cogliano
Beleskey - Bonino - Smith-Pelley

 

[Ducks DVM]

If I'm comparing the way Holland has played in the AHL to the way Bonino has been fumbling around, I give Holland a look against Vancouver. Not a permanent spot but definitely a look.

So you're thinking Bonino wouldn't be tearing up the AHL exactly the same way, considering he was matching Holland's AHL production two years ago? The "Holland faces stiffer competition" argument is completely offset by the fact that Bonino played with far inferior teammates IMO. Holland earned a shot at the 4th line with his AHL play. Rakell has earned nothing but the right to not be sent back to juniors immediately, he's been far inferior to Bonino, and if a center sits, the team is far worse without Bonino than Rakell. That really isn't debatable.

 

[Pahlsson26]

You said the 4th line has looked sharp with Rakell at center. That means you think the 4th line has looked sharp, in part of Rakell. That's not the same as saying Rakell has looked sharp, while centering the 4th line.

Must've slipped my mind, it's late here. And thanks for breaking it down like that for me, it's not like I didn't have half a brain to figure it out myself.

Instead of saying "This." why don't you tell me why you think the 4th line hasn't looked that great, and could use a change?

 

[PrototypeX85]

I wouldn't mind seeing:

Palmieri - Getzlaf - Perry
Winnik - Koivu - Selanne
Ryan - Rakell - Cogliano
Beleskey - Bonino - Smith-Pelley

The big problem there is that you're splitting up what has been our most solid third line since Niedermayer-Moen-Pahlsson. Give it time. I saw some shifts in the third period where the third line did look rather solid. The first line didn't look all that great until tonight. I don't want to split up the 1st or 3rd line, and would like to give the 2nd some more time to gain some chemistry. If anything, try swapping Bonino for Holland.

 

[12ozPapa]

The big problem there is that you're splitting up what has been our most solid third line since Niedermayer-Moen-Pahlsson. Give it time. I saw some shifts in the third period where the third line did look rather solid. The first line didn't look all that great until tonight. I don't want to split up the 1st or 3rd line, and would like to give the 2nd some more time to gain some chemistry. If anything, try swapping Bonino for Holland.

True, but Cogliano has been least impactful on that line, albeit not bad or anything, but least amount of production. The chemistry seems to mainly be Winnik/Koivu. Ryan/Selanne have no chemistry as of now and Koivu/Selanne do.

Who knows, just spitting ideas out.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Must've slipped my mind, it's late here. And thanks for breaking it down like that for me, it's not like I didn't have half a brain to figure it out myself.

Instead of saying "This." why don't you tell me why you think the 4th line hasn't looked that great, and could use a change?

Weak on the forecheck.
Poor communication at times (3 young players, to be expected).
Confused with the defensive system at times, huge issues clearing the zone.

To be clear, I think it's DSP who should sit, it won't kill either Holland nor Rakell to spend a game (or period, they can switch) playing wing. If one of them impresses in THIS league, then they can move up the depth chart.

 

[Pahlsson26]

I wouldn't mind seeing:

Palmieri - Getzlaf - Perry
Winnik - Koivu - Selanne
Ryan - Rakell - Cogliano
Beleskey - Bonino - Smith-Pelley

I think the biggest problem, as others have mentioned, is Selanne doesn't mesh well with Ryan. You put a speedy winger opposite Teemu, and that line clicks. Selanne paired with Palmieri (who also has tons of experience with Bonino) makes that 2nd line better, but destroys the good 1st line play so far. Winnik is probably the best bet to fill in, but then the 3rd line is a mess.

Winnik - Getzlaf - Perry
Palmieri - Bonino - Selanne
Ryan - Koivu - Cogliano
Beleskey - Rakell - DSP

EDIT: I guess you could also but Bobby on the 1st line and keep the 3rd line in tact.

 

[Ducks DVM]

True, but Cogliano has been least impactful on that line, albeit not bad or anything, but least amount of production. The chemistry seems to mainly be Winnik/Koivu. Ryan/Selanne have no chemistry as of now and Koivu/Selanne do.

Who knows, just spitting ideas out.

Cogliano's speed is driving part of the success - he has 4 assists. They're the top production line in hockey right now, AND the best defensive line. Adding Selanne will dilute the defensive ability.

 

[Corey Perry*]

Must've slipped my mind, it's late here. And thanks for breaking it down like that for me, it's not like I didn't have half a brain to figure it out myself.

Instead of saying "This." why don't you tell me why you think the 4th line hasn't looked that great, and could use a change?

I have the same sentiment as DVM, that's why I said This.

 

[Vipers31]

What's up with people making all sorts of changes to the lineup? Some good things are happening. I didn't even feel that Ryan and Teemu looked too bad together. Not good, yet, but they came very close to scoring twice only within the first period.

A big part of us winning these games has been us finding chemistry early. It's very early. There's lines on every single team that aren't clicking, yet. With a short camp, no pre-season games and no constant history of playing together, the second line needs to be given time. And with the way the other lines do, for now we actually are in the relatively comfortable position of being able to give it to them.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Agreed that its going to be very tough to find a center for them. It's not hard to see why Selanne and Ryan struggle to find chemistry. Selanne seems to feed more off of speed. Ryan isn't ideal for that type of play. I think you're right when you say they need a center who can carry the play. Bonino is a smart player but his physical limitations will keep him from ever being someone who can carry the play IMO. Holland is better in that aspect but I think Selanne and Ryan also need someone who is very defensive responsible, which Bonino is. Not sure how Holland is in that aspect. Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Rakkel get a shift between the two. I'm not really saying bench Bonino but i do believe its time to see Holland and out of all the centers, Bonino is playing the worst so i wouldn't mind seeing Holland next game instead of him.

Well the brightside is, if we can find a no.2 center at some point in this season we could be a real good team. I have a feeling it will be a revolving door and we'll have to do something at the TDL. Also it's great to see Palmieri looking comfortable on the top line, can't wait til Perry gets comfortable, you can see Getzy and KP have some chemistry already

 

[KaseMeOutside]

The second line has no puck retriever when Ryan is in one of his lulls. All three of those guys have been losing battles on the boards, they can't control the puck long enough to create anything.

If you're theory is correct, then perhaps Rakell is going to get a chance..i'd give Bonino til the 7 or 8 game mark to get going, or else you have to try something different

 

[Elvs]

My thoughts:

*1st line looks good. I don't agree that Perry has been bad, he's not in beast mode like Getzlaf but he's been ok given that it's his first two games in some time, and the production has been there. It's early but Palmieri looks like he's top six ready.

*2nd line... I do not like. Bonino isn't looking like top six material. You can give him a couple of more games if you want, but then the other kids needs a shot there. And if that doesn't help either, Murray should bring in someone from the outside.

*3rd line was great again and must stay together. They bring a bundle of energy and unlike most of the clubs's bottom six forwards in recent years they can make plays with the puck, too. I'm just worried people will start to flame when their production comes down to earth.

*As for the 4th line, again I felt a bit scared when they were on the ice. I think DSP started out fine, but was quite horrible in the 2nd and 3rd period. If this is where he's at, he's better off in Norfolk. I have high hopes for Rakell, and think he's been fine given his age. But I don't think he's good enough to justify burning a year off his rookie contract. I think he's replacable.

*The defence actually worries me. Too many turnovers (some of them from forwards too) in the defensive zone. Fowler was ok for his first game of the year, but I don't like the puck movement from the rest of the bunch. Sbisa has been underwhelming, and Beauchemin is looking pretty rusty. Allen has been up and down, and Souray is slow but at least has points in both games. I don't agree that Lydman is back to his 10/11 form, but that's a lot to ask. He has been good.

 

[JtotheLew]

My thoughts:

*1st line looks good. I don't agree that Perry has been bad, he's not in beast mode like Getzlaf but he's been ok given that it's his first two games in some time, and the production has been there. It's early but Palmieri looks like he's top six ready.

*2nd line... I do not like. Bonino isn't looking like top six material. You can give him a couple of more games if you want, but then the other kids needs a shot there. And if that doesn't help either, Murray should bring in someone from the outside.

*3rd line was great again and must stay together. They bring a bundle of energy and unlike most of the clubs's bottom six forwards in recent years they can make plays with the puck, too. I'm just worried people will start to flame when their production comes down to earth.

*As for the 4th line, again I felt a bit scared when they were on the ice. I think DSP started out fine, but was quite horrible in the 2nd and 3rd period. If this is where he's at, he's better off in Norfolk. I have high hopes for Rakell, and think he's been fine given his age. But I don't think he's good enough to justify burning a year off his rookie contract. I think he's replacable.

*The defence actually worries me. Too many turnovers (some of them from forwards too) in the defensive zone. Fowler was ok for his first game of the year, but I don't like the puck movement from the rest of the bunch. Sbisa has been underwhelming, and Beauchemin is looking pretty rusty. Allen has been up and down, and Souray is slow but at least has points in both games. I don't agree that Lydman is back to his 10/11 form, but that's a lot to ask. He has been good.

You basically took the words right out of my mouth. I feel bad for Ryan not having someone good to gel with as I think with the right line he could even take a jump up from his regular 30-33 goal form (over an 82 game season) but if we don't figure something else out I can't even imagine him putting up similar numbers to past years. I'm not saying go into panic mode but having a 25 year old 5 million dollar winger who is supposed to be putting up 30-35 goals a season atleast without a proper line is a bit of a concern to me. If we can figure the 2nd line out and the 3rd keeps playing while I think we have a pretty solid team this year.

The defensive issues I think are kinks we need to just work out and I'm not worried yet, I've watched as many games as possible since the season started and just about every defense has looked pretty bad.

 

[mightyquack]

This is the best I've seen Getzlaf play in years. One of our top players once again.

Thought Hiller had a good game, not much he could of done for any of the goals IMO, some bad defensive coverage / not getting to the sticks of players.

 

[JabbaJabba]

Just watched the game. Interesting match, not as good effort by the Ducks as in Vancouver game. Calgary was constantly using speed to get near which caused turnovers but to be fair, Anaheim had more quality chances than Calgary even though they dominated a few time.

1st line looked great at the end but Palmieri should maybe pass more and Getzlaf should shoot more. Perry was better than in last game, still a bit rusty but nothing to worry.

3rd line was the best line again, Koivu has a lot of game left in him, Winnik plays good physical game and Cogliano is all over the place. Good effort and work ethic overall.

4th line was good at times, energetic and hitting but players seem lost at times. DSP had a better game IMO.

2nd line is a mess right now, Bonino has a sophmore slump, Ryan is invisible and Selänne has no one to play with. If Bonino continues to be bad, they should give Rakell or Holland a shot.

Fowler had good and bad moments but I think he ends up with a positive grade for his first game. Allen had few big hits. Sbisa and Lydman made some good plays in defensive zone. However, I'm worried about defence, even though they got few more big defenders, Glencross was allowed to direct two pucks into goal, that's not good. Defensive play overall hasn't been good and hopefully Niedermayer has few ideas how to work it out.

Hiller had no chances to save either of Clencross' goals. He was ok otherwise but nothing spectacular yet.

Team looks better than in the beginning of last season, still there's work to be done. Good thing is that they are not the only team with problems.

 

[mightyquack]

Enjoy it.