GDT: Game 2: Carolina vs Columbus, 7pm

[Navin R Slavin]

I don't know what you're talking about. I show my STH card and then pay any way I want.

Oh, in reading the other stuff, I guess I was the outlier. I'm guessing they'll fix it. Be sure to complain. All the new systems are weird.

 

[Joe McGrath]

This game was always going to have poor attendance. Everyone with a mini plan or a casual went opening night. That it was less than 8k is not a good look. I was thinking 10k would be an OK number.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I show my STH card and then pay any way I want.

Like a boss!

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Re: attendance. Winning is everything, but it's not an instant fix. We know this team is for real because we follow them every day. Casual fans don't know yet, and won't know for a while yet.

If you're embarrassed by it, go out and recruit some of your friends to go to games with you.

 

[Svechhammer]

Again, I ask why anyone would expect this specific game to draw 13K, which would be a larger crowd than the average of the past THREE seasons (individually or combined).

Is there even one good reason to believe this game, of all games, would have drawn an above average crowd?

Oh I don't disagree there. But the reality of the situation is that attendance is horrifically bad in Raleigh, and this isn't just a one game thing. We keep making excuses as if we just fix this one thing here or one thing there and suddenly everything will fix itself, and I just don't see it. Sure, if we keep winning, fans will come back, but I don't see sellouts miraculously happening. Even if we manage to make the playoffs, we'll be struggling to sell games out.

What's bad is that we routinely see attendance numbers like this over the course of a season lately. This number represents less than half a BAD attendance average over the course of the season for any other franchise (15.6k average would rank 25th). The team should be bending over backwards to get people in house, but I just don't see that happening.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Re tickets: Do they charge a convenience fee if you buy them at the box office?

I do not believe so, I think it's only a Ticketmaster fee, although I haven't gone to the box office in a long time. At least that's the way it's been in the past and for other things (for instance, if you go to the DPAC box office, you don't pay the fee).

Thing is, the cheap tickets I was discussing are resale and I think are only available via TM or Stubhub so you can't avoid the fee (at least that's my understanding).

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Oh I don't disagree there. But the reality of the situation is that attendance is horrifically bad in Raleigh, and this isn't just a one game thing. We keep making excuses as if we just fix this one thing here or one thing there and suddenly everything will fix itself, and I just don't see it.

The reality of the situation? Oh, you want to get real?

The reality of the situation is that we've missed the playoffs FOR NINE f***ING YEARS.

Two pretty good games at the beginning of a new season don't mean shit. Seriously, what the f*** do you expect on a Tuesday night in October when it's 80 degrees outside and we're playing the Columbus Blue Jackets?

 

[GoldiFox]

I don't know what you're talking about. I show my STH card and then pay any way I want.

You just showed them your card and they processed the discount? Yesterday?

My STM larger lanyard card was refused during the 1st intermission. They said I needed my swipe card. My (and others I know of) swipe cards were in a deactivated limbo because when they did type in the numbers on Saturday they took money from my credit on top of taking my cash at the stand. Therefore when I went back up to grab a pretzel with the swipe card, they said it couldn't be processed because it didn't have credit money attached to it. I said f*** it and paid full price (again).

Today my cards were fixed so I hope that is the end of that. My main issue is the total disconnect between the vendors actually taking payment and Canes management who dreamed up this terrible system. It's the same genius who decided that every parking pass needs to be manually taken down and scanned because a couple people were sneaking into their 75% empty lots. As if these petty issues are why the Canes can't make money.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I've never had a lanyard, so all this is new to me. I just gave them my STM card and they swiped it, and then I paid cash for my pretzel and water.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[tarheelhockey]

Thing is, the cheap tickets I was discussing are resale and I think are only available via TM or Stubhub so you can't avoid the fee (at least that's my understanding).

How does StubHub even work, now that they’ve eliminated pdf tickets? Are people doing that through the mail now?

 

[Svechhammer]

The reality of the situation? Oh, you want to get real?

The reality of the situation is that we've missed the playoffs FOR NINE ****ING YEARS.

Two pretty good games at the beginning of a new season don't mean ****. Seriously, what the **** do you expect on a Tuesday night in October when it's 80 degrees outside and we're playing the Columbus Blue Jackets?

Lighten up, francis.

I would think the expectation of any NHL franchise would be to routinely pull in attendance numbers that rank more than the average of 8 AHL franchises. Playoffs or not, less than 8k at a game at this level is unacceptable.

 

[DaveG]

Yep, there's none to be had. Literally the only reasons are that they won in epic fashion on opening night, and that it's going to be a couple weeks til the next game while the fair is in town.

On the flip side:

• It was "this in October? f*** this" degrees outside with a humidity of "oh hell naw"
• The state fair is coming up and between opening night last Saturday, this game, and the state fair, some people were going to be making a decision on what they want to spend their money on. We'd rather go with the 2 hockey games... but we're not normal. And if you had to choose between the 2 games you were going to opening night unless you had a compelling reason to choose otherwise.
• The team has been bouncing between mediocre and shit but not shit enough for a good pick for a decade. Hell even arguably 08-09 if you think like I do that the team just simply got hot at the right time and rode that to the ECF.
• on the good pick point, we haven't had a top 3 pick in how long now? As much as guys like us might like what's going on with Aho, etc. who's the last prospect that we've been able to draft that a casual would have any idea on before hand? Hanifin? And before that? Staal? Are you frigin kidding me? This isn't a team that's going to generate a lot of hype, just how it is. Same with Columbus, for similar reason. I mean who's the most hyped young player on their team, Seth Jones? That's like Hanifin, it's not going to get the casuals off their asses and to the arena.
• Seriously, I don't feel like I need to say this again, but I do. A f***ING DECADE. It's going to take a lot of winning to get the casuals back, like, we're in mid January with the team sitting at about 5th in the East (the East, not just the Metro) on pace for a 100+ point season and talking about how we're going to add Duchene or Tavares at the deadline after those two teams are out of the mix.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sure, if we keep winning, fans will come back, but I don't see sellouts miraculously happening.

You’re right, sellouts won’t miraculously happen. They’ll happen for a specific reason — the team is winning.

I don’t see any formula for success for this franchise regardless of where it is located that doesn’t involve making the playoffs at some point.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The team should be bending over backwards to get people in house, but I just don't see that happening.

I think this is really at the heart of the discussion around here over the past few days. Why isn’t the organization trying harder to pack the stands?

A lot of it comes down to a tidal shift in the business model of pro sports. Bending over backwards to get casuals to buy cheap seats isn’t the way it works anymore. These teams put their effort into attracting high-dollar clients for suite and club packages, or at the very least selling season tickets to repeat customers. They’ve made a big effort to clamp down on scalping and keep prices high. They don’t want your $50, they want $500 from your boss’s boss.

So I wouldn’t hold your breath with regard to any $3 beer, Pack the House type events. That’s not the way the wind is blowing in pro sports these days.

 

[Svechhammer]

You’re right, sellouts won’t miraculously happen. They’ll happen for a specific reason — the team is winning.

I don’t see any formula for success for this franchise regardless of where it is located that doesn’t involve making the playoffs at some point.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't even think that winning is going to be that magic bullet. Sure, we might see a bump, but I could easily see us a playoff team the next 3 years with average attendance growing to 15k, and even that would still be lagging in the bottom 10 of the league. So what can be done to help boost those numbers now so when the quality of play bump hits, it has more of an impact? We've never had really solid attendance numbers, even when they were making the playoffs before, and the fans have been driven away by 10 years of bad hockey, and I'm very discouraged to see that the franchise isn't actively doing anything to bring them back.

 

[Svechhammer]

How does StubHub even work, now that they’ve eliminated pdf tickets? Are people doing that through the mail now?

There is mail delivery. There is also instant delivery where you're emailed a QR/bar code (depending on venue) that is scannable at the entrances. You can also access the tickets if you have downloaded the app and purchase through there.

 

[GoldiFox]

How does StubHub even work, now that they’ve eliminated pdf tickets? Are people doing that through the mail now?

You buy the ticket from Stubhub. A confirmation gets sent to the email on your Stubhub account. The confirmation sends you to the TicketMaster portal. You login using your TicketMaster username and password. If you don't have one then you make it. Once you log into the TicketMaster portal then you can confirm that you ordered the tickets from StubHub. Once you confirm then you enter in the email associated with you Caniac Account Manager portal. If you don't have one then you make it. Once you log into the Caniac Account Manager you can finally "Accept the tickets". This will not created a ticket or anything prinatable. What it does is send an email to you (the one associated with the Caniac Account Manager) which provides an embedded mobile link. From that link you can click, log in to your Mobile Caniac Account Manager, and finally see your ticket QR codes.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't even think that winning is going to be that magic bullet. Sure, we might see a bump, but I could easily see us a playoff team the next 3 years with average attendance growing to 15k, and even that would still be lagging in the bottom 10 of the league.

I think you're right, in the sense that we need to have realistic expectations for how much attendance can go up at once. As stated earlier, the STM base is around 7500. Meaning they have to do 11,000 in walk-up sales in order to sell out the building. That might happen for some really big games, but even a relatively high profile game isn't going to sell out when your base number is that low. It's going to take time to build up the STM base and that will not happen until there's significant pressure on the ticket inventory -- otherwise a lot of people will just stick to walk-up purchases and resales.

Bear in mind that we went through this process in reverse from 2010-2015 and that was the main reason why our attendance didn't REALLY fall off a cliff despite having a pretty unwatchable team during that period.

There is mail delivery. There is also instant delivery where you're emailed a QR/bar code (depending on venue) that is scannable at the entrances. You can also access the tickets if you have downloaded the app and purchase through there.

That second part's what I'm wondering about. The team has eliminated pdf tickets, so I don't understand how a ticket holder can get that barcode to StubHub anymore. Clearly I'm missing something, but the only remaining option I know of is to physically mail the tickets to StubHub.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You buy the ticket from Stubhub. A confirmation gets sent to the email on your Stubhub account. The confirmation sends you to the TicketMaster portal. You login using your TicketMaster username and password. If you don't have one then you make it. Once you log into the TicketMaster portal then you can confirm that you ordered the tickets from StubHub. Once you confirm then you enter in the email associated with you Caniac Account Manager portal. If you don't have one then you make it. Once you log into the Caniac Account Manager you can finally "Accept the tickets". This will not created a ticket or anything prinatable. What it does is send an email to you (the one associated with the Caniac Account Manager) which provides an embedded mobile link. From that link you can click, log in to your Mobile Caniac Account Manager, and finally see your ticket QR codes.

So from the selling side, it's all going through Ticketmaster? Aren't they contracted to manage the Caniac Account Manager portal? It seems weird that they would play both sides like that.

 

[DaveG]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't even think that winning is going to be that magic bullet. Sure, we might see a bump, but I could easily see us a playoff team the next 3 years with average attendance growing to 15k, and even that would still be lagging in the bottom 10 of the league. So what can be done to help boost those numbers now so when the quality of play bump hits, it has more of an impact? We've never had really solid attendance numbers, even when they were making the playoffs before, and the fans have been driven away by 10 years of bad hockey, and I'm very discouraged to see that the franchise isn't actively doing anything to bring them back.

Thing is they tried doing the stuff to get the casuals back under Rutherford, and the result was that it was pissing off the STH base because people were buying a shitload of promo tickets and those seats that you just spent $60 a head on? Yeah jackwagon Chowdahead, Yinzer or Buffaloon that is incapable of behaving and is spilling beer all over you and your so/kid/client only spent $25... or less. The team actually did better financially in terms of breaking even with 11.7-12.5K in the stands the past 3 years then they had in the prior years of 15K+, including years over 17K.

Believe me I'm 100% with you that it sucks and I'd rather see the place back and packed with fans that are passionate and supporting the home team, it'll take time, and a LOT of winning.

 

[CandyCanes]

I think this is really at the heart of the discussion around here over the past few days. Why isn’t the organization trying harder to pack the stands?

A lot of it comes down to a tidal shift in the business model of pro sports. Bending over backwards to get casuals to buy cheap seats isn’t the way it works anymore. These teams put their effort into attracting high-dollar clients for suite and club packages, or at the very least selling season tickets to repeat customers. They’ve made a big effort to clamp down on scalping and keep prices high. They don’t want your $50, they want $500 from your boss’s boss.

So I wouldn’t hold your breath with regard to any $3 beer, Pack the House type events. That’s not the way the wind is blowing in pro sports these days.

You're probably right on the spot with this new shift in business model, no matter how much I hate it as a fan. The fact that the Canes reported an actual profit last season even with abysmal attendance shows that the model is working for them.

The reason why I hate it as a fan though is I love going to the games where there's a crowd and an environment. I just love that sense of community when we get to all come together be loud as hell together and all just have fun together. It's why I love sports, they can really bring a community of people together. I just hope we can find ways to get seats back in that arena and bring back that fun arena atmosphere that PNC used to be. I get chills when I look back at old Canes games and hear the Caniacs roaring in the background.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I think this is really at the heart of the discussion around here over the past few days. Why isn’t the organization trying harder to pack the stands?

A lot of it comes down to a tidal shift in the business model of pro sports. Bending over backwards to get casuals to buy cheap seats isn’t the way it works anymore. These teams put their effort into attracting high-dollar clients for suite and club packages, or at the very least selling season tickets to repeat customers. They’ve made a big effort to clamp down on scalping and keep prices high. They don’t want your $50, they want $500 from your boss’s boss.

So I wouldn’t hold your breath with regard to any $3 beer, Pack the House type events. That’s not the way the wind is blowing in pro sports these days.

Yup, exactly this.

If the reports are true that the Canes made money last year, even before profit sharing, then it just reinforces the correctness of this strategy. Sure, lots of fans looks great -- but a team succeeds or fails based on revenue.

What they're doing right now, while they still can, is setting the floor on ticket prices. The season ticket base, 7k-ish, is not great, but it's good enough. And they can clearly afford to wait it out -- because when they win, the fans will come back. They always come back.

If you're mad that the house is half-empty, or if you're mad that the house fills up with opposing fans whenever NY or Pittsburgh or Boston are in town, make some friends and bring them to games.

 

[GoldiFox]

So from the selling side, it's all going through Ticketmaster? Aren't they contracted to manage the Caniac Account Manager portal? It seems weird that they would play both sides like that.

I've only bought an extra ticket, haven't sold. The Caniac Account Manager and the Ticketmaster portals look similar. Not sure why they have it as a 2-step process (3 with StubHub) instead of everything flowing through Ticketmaster.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I've only bought an extra ticket, haven't sold. The Caniac Account Manager and the Ticketmaster portals look similar. Not sure why they have it as a 2-step process (3 with StubHub) instead of everything flowing through Ticketmaster.

CAM is basically just a redirect to Ticketmaster. Tickets sold through there are simply posted to Ticketmaster, with fees added.

The old way to go was to get a pdf of your ticket and then post it to StubHub, where you could usually sell it for more and not feed the loathsome succubus that is TM.

I'm mainly curious because when they eliminated pdfs, the general reaction was "so much for StubHub, it all goes through the team now". But clearly some people are finding a way around that.

 

[Svechhammer]

You buy the ticket from Stubhub. A confirmation gets sent to the email on your Stubhub account. The confirmation sends you to the TicketMaster portal. You login using your TicketMaster username and password. If you don't have one then you make it. Once you log into the TicketMaster portal then you can confirm that you ordered the tickets from StubHub. Once you confirm then you enter in the email associated with you Caniac Account Manager portal. If you don't have one then you make it. Once you log into the Caniac Account Manager you can finally "Accept the tickets". This will not created a ticket or anything prinatable. What it does is send an email to you (the one associated with the Caniac Account Manager) which provides an embedded mobile link. From that link you can click, log in to your Mobile Caniac Account Manager, and finally see your ticket QR codes.

This right here. I'm sure its not as bad a process as you make it out to be, and once you get used to it, its not bad at all... But from someone who hasn't gone through this process to get a ticket, this description is pure insanity. We should be making it easier to exchange tickets. We should be encouraging a secondary market, because that means the initial ticket was bought and someone is going to be in the arena. Instead, we come up with this jumbled mess of a system that comes across as more trouble than its worth. And that's before you factor in the StubHub fees that will increase the purchase price by about 50%.

I've done StubHub numerous times for various events, and not once have I dealt with anything as convoluted as that. For a franchise desperate to get people in the door, this seems to be incredibly counter-productive.