Game 2 10/14/16: Philadelphia Flyers 4 @ Los Angeles Kings 2

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Better than Dionne and Robitaille?

No championships with our club. Luc has 1, but not as a King.

Championships are a huge part of a player's legacy. Kopi has 2. I agree, second greatest King ever. But some of the over 40 and 50 fans here may have a different take than me.

Honorable mention to Jozef Stumpel :yo: ETA :sarcasm:

:) <-- those eyes are moving damnit lol
 
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I would say so, yeah.

Put Kopitar on any Kings teams in the 80s and he's a perennial 110 point center without sacrificing much of his defensive game in the process.


Co-signed, Ritchie! Kopi would have fit right in in 80s (and even 70s) hockey. All day. Dude is such a damn ox, he'd be skating toe to toe with Nystrom (not dropping the gloves -- Nystrom had hands lol), Neely, etc. and be perfectly able to withstand the aggressiveness of the era with ease, and thrive.
 
Better than Dionne and Robitaille?

he is not better than Dionne on offence , MD was pretty magical and we were hoping he would get to howe's numbers before 99 passed them all , but overall 11 is the best kings center ever , plays the position the way it is supposed to at both ends and like the other poster said he delivered not one but two Stanley Cups , still get goose bumps when I write that lol, so as plain simple "what have you done for me lately" crowd he has won us two cups and the pressure for his first year as captain is clearly on DL now
 
No championships with our club. Luc has 1, but not as a King.

Championships are a huge part of a player's legacy. Kopi has 2. I agree, second greatest King ever. But some of the over 40 and 50 fans here may have a different take than me.

Honorable mention to Jozef Stumpel :yo: ETA :sarcasm:

:) <-- those eyes are moving damnit lol

not to nitpick... but you don't have to be on the ice to win with the team.

photo-of-the-los-angeles-kings-201112-championship-engraving-on-the-picture-id458856112


photo-of-the-los-angeles-kings-201314-championship-engraving-on-the-picture-id458856094


:)
 
well let's see, are any of these keepers (some you'd need to consider how they are used, salary, age, etc)?

pearson
brown
king
clifford
gaborik
shore
andreoff
lewis
purcell
nolan
setoguchi
latta
mcnabb
forbort
greene
gilbert
scuderi

now...

if you answered yes to 3 or less of these players, you are forgiven
if you answered yes to more than 3 of these players, we'll have an issue for sure and continue living in your fantasy world and i wish you all the best in life and how you generally assess and analyze things

here's the problem though, not only are 3 of these players part of the Kings roster, but i bet you probably didn't know, that all of them are indeed part of the 2016 Los Angeles Kings in one shape or another

i know, shocking
 
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Hey, let's look at the lack of depth as a positive: it's great that the Kings have hardly anyone worth keeping around beyond next season, lot of options to leave exposed at the expansion draft!
 
well let's see, are any of these keepers (some you'd need to consider how they are used, salary, age, etc)?

pearson
brown
king
clifford
gaborik
shore
andreoff
lewis
purcell
nolan
setoguchi
latta
mcnabb
forbort
greene
gilbert
scuderi

now...

if you answered yes to 3 or less of these players, you are forgiven
if you answered yes to 3 or more of these players, we'll have an issue for sure and continue living in your fantasy world and i wish you all the best in life and how you generally assess and analyze things

here's the problem though, not only are 3 of these players part of the Kings roster, but i bet you probably didn't know, that all of them are indeed part of the 2016 Los Angeles Kings in one shape or another

i know, shocking

I see at least 6 guys with multiple Stanley Cup Champion rings.
 
So it's time for the annual "clean house" discussion after game 2.

I see not much has changed around here lol.
I wanted to see some in house cleaning two years ago at the trade deadline...
Ever since the team won in 2014 I was critical to some of the signings/re-signings and trades.
Around 2/3 of the roster has no offensive abilities. The team still cannot move the puck out of the defensive zone. Doughty had two garbage games and the usual suspects that lack speed or hockey IQ are committing stupid penalties..
And then there is Sutter who seems to be watching a different game then most of us do (I don't necessary blame him for the losses). I am not saying they are world beaters but Dowd and Gilbert deserved to make the opening night roster with the way training camp went.
 
I wanted to see some in house cleaning two years ago at the trade deadline...
Ever since the team won in 2014 I was critical to some of the signings/re-signings and trades.
Around 2/3 of the roster has no offensive abilities. The team still cannot move the puck out of the defensive zone. Doughty had two garbage games and the usual suspects that lack speed or hockey IQ are committing stupid penalties..
And then there is Sutter who seems to be watching a different game then most of us do (I don't necessary blame him for the losses). I am not saying they are world beaters but Dowd and Gilbert deserved to make the opening night roster with the way training camp went.

Yes, sir.

Many of the same things have been said at certain points over the last 6 or 7 seasons.

I don't consider myself a fanboy or someone who can't see the negatives but in my 30 years involved in watching and playing hockey I've learned that the over-corrections and overreactions often suggested on this board make me glad we have professionals running the team rather than the fans.

It is a long drawn out season that will certainly have ups and downs. Things are never quite as bad or as good as they seem. Some of you want to dump all over this roster but it's very similar to the team that tied the second highest point total in team history last season.

This team is not without it's share of problems but being so quick to turn on the guys that have delivered us to the promised land TWICE is... to me... unbecoming, to say the least.
 
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It is a long drawn out season that will certainly have ups and downs. Things are never quite as bad or as good as they seem. Some of you want to dump all over this roster but it's very similar to the team that tied the second highest point total in team history last season.

This team is not without it's share of problems but being so quick to turn on the guys that have delivered us to the promised land TWICE is... to me... unbecoming, to say the least.

The team isn't that much different then last years team, but you're talking about tipping points. Last year the offense was rolling along. We had Kopitar/Carter/VL down the middle. VL still had some skill at the end of his career. The Kings had 3 lines capable of putting pressure on teams. Now getting Pearson back the Kings will be lucky to have 2 lines putting pressure on teams. That's a big difference. The defense is a little different. Schenn/Scuderi out for Greene/Forbort... o.O I'm going to say that's a wash. I don't even want to waste time analyzing that.

As far as bailing on the guys that won X2. It doesn't matter at this point. The Kings don't currently have a roster that changing the coach/gm is going to matter. Firing Sutter isn't going to make Quick heal faster. The problem with changing the style of play is that the Kings do not have the players to compete with team like the Pens/Edm in an uptempo game.

At this point the way forward is to see who develops, see if it gets the team close enough to being a contender again, then make some trades to patch the holes. That's 2-3 years out.

The Kings could have gotten lucky this year and might have been in a position to make the playoffs and bring up some youth at the end of the season for an extra push, but that may not happen with Quick out half the season.
 
‘There are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.’ -douchnald rumpfelcher

pretty much sums up the kings roster and season as of now.
 
If DL were to clean house, and be okay with sucking for the next 2-3 years to give the youth time to develop in the NHL, here is who I would keep, try to get rid of, and unfortunately stuck with.

Keepers:

Kopitar
Toffoli
Pearson
Carter
Lewis
Andreof
Doughty
Muzzin
Martinez
Fobert
Nolan

Get Rid of:

King
Clifford
Gaborik
McNabb
Gilbert
Shore

Try to get rid of (good luck!)

Brown
Gaborik
Greene

After cleaning house, next year's lineup would look like this:

[Free Agent]-Kopitar-Toffoli
Pearson-Carter-Mersch
Brown-Dowd-Lewis
Andreoff-Kempe-Nolan


Fobert-Doughty
Martinez-Muzzin
Gravel-LaDue

Not saying this lineup is better than what we have, but if we give them 2-3 years to play together and develop, we will be competitive again by the time they are ready.
 
I would argue the only time this team has ever been seen as a 'complete' team on paper going into the season was after the 2014 cup and we saw how 2015 played out.

Those of us that are optimistic aren't under delusions of grandeur, we just recognize changes are possible as is growth.
 
I'm on board with roster tweaks, getting some young blood in there.

But any talk of replacing the GM and/or coach at this point is beyond short sighted imo.
 
I'm on board with roster tweaks, getting some young blood in there.

But any talk of replacing the GM and/or coach at this point is beyond short sighted imo.

I doubt DL is worried, multiple cup winning GM's don't get fired easily. Hell, when LL was in New Jersey, he hadn't won anything for a long time. 10 years ago they made it to the 2nd round. After that = 3 first round exits and missing the playoffs 4 of his last 5 years there (although they did make the finals when they did make it). And he wasn't even fired, he resigned.

Coaches on the other hand...
 
I'm on board with roster tweaks, getting some young blood in there.

But any talk of replacing the GM and/or coach at this point is beyond short sighted imo.

I don't think anyone is "turning their backs" on the guys that helped bring this franchise its only glory but rather the fact this is an internet message board so there isn't going to be a bunch of flowery words in front of "get rid of him" or "move on from him" but rather quite the opposite.

It goes without saying that all Kings fans are forever grateful to DL, Sutter and everyone else that played a part in the 2012-14 run: including Richards and even Voynov. It doesn't need to be said really and, actually, it has been said by most posters but we have posters that said nice things about Greene or others two years ago while saying they should move on but they are still here so the niceties have ceased.

As a season seat holder, I don't want to be forking over money for a 12th place club come 2019 because they won the Cup five years earlier. At some point, you don't get a mulligan for horrible moves. 2015 and '16 were the mulligans so fans should be examining management and coaching when you go from winning two cups in three years to winning one playoff game since.

I'm not so much on the get rid of DL train since he's kind of ****ed himself with his "all-in" moves. When you go all-in and play a bad hand, you bust. Well, this roster is busted from a supporting players/depth standpoint but DL is hamstrung by the cap, just like the next guy will be. The way to be competitive is to have ELC producers but the impact pickings are slim due to wasting 1st round picks. I couldn't really tell you what the next guy would do outside of maybe moving lower-tier guys for prospects/picks but I do know that ownership is not looking to start a rebuild soon and definitely not during this 50th anniversary deal so what would getting rid of DL accomplish?

I do think, however, that Sutter is not entirely here because he has a continued passion to coach the LA Kings. He's a competitor and will tell you that he expects to win this and that, but he knows this roster isn't what it was and he knows DL is screwed with the cap. There was Chris Sutter front and center for his dancing segment on Friday Night. Chris loves the Kings and being part of the team probably more than anything from what I've read so here we are with DS. He doesn't have the horses necessary to run his style of play but they are going to go ahead and continue to do it.

I hate to start down the road of follow the money, but the Kings have an identity in this town and I don't believe ownership wants to disrupt it since the money train is still humming along. Keep the same coaches and basically the same roster and hope to make the playoffs with the casual fan not seeing how scary things are cap and prospect wise. I think that has already gone to **** with Gaborik and now Quick out. If they continue to play like Friday throughout the season at Staples, that sell-out streak will end and that season seat wait list will get a lot shorter. I think it will only be then that there will be a change at the DL or Sutter levels.

Everything done since the '14 Cup has been based on winning another one ASAP without much care for the future. The future is now here and the moves pretty much all seriously backfired. Unless the young guys step up--since we know what we have with the current roster--this team is going to slide into black hole status where I'm afraid it already resides this season without Gaborik and Quick. Then comes the decision to blow it up or not: not sure if DL would be the guy to blow up his own team. I definitely know Sutter is the wrong coach for a non-contender: especially at this stage of his career.
 

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