GDT: Game #14 - 11.08.14 - vs Sharkies - 7:00 PM - FS Southwest - 1310 AM - 96.7 FM
- Thread starter Stars99Lobo37
- Start date
Cin
Eurosnob.
Cin
Eurosnob.
The Nemeth loss hurts now more than ever now. It's so funny looking back at the summer threads and seeing people saying they didn't think he'd make the team out of camp lol.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
This family lives in a waste-conscious household and if one of them is less mouldy then the other we should make the most of it. Put it in the blender and feed it to the dog.
The positive from that game was that the Golden Trio all got points and look like they're getting back to form even though Jamie is hella snakebit right now. I prefer to see us losing after scoring several goals but letting in a bunch because of ****** defense instead of only scoring one goal and still letting in a bunch because of ****** defense. At least if we keep scoring we have a chance to win. We need a ****ing defensive change though and switching around the lines isn't going to cut it. Pairing trash with different trash doesn't stop it from being trash.
McKenzie is great though. How can we keep him up ? Waive Sceviour ?
McKenzie is great though. How can we keep him up ? Waive Sceviour ?
glovesave_35
Name
Cin
Eurosnob.
piqued
nos merentur hoc
- Nov 22, 2006
- 32,963
- 4,030
Well obviously that's the ideal but I mean what is an actual realistic expectation for how we can keep him up. The best case scenario would be losing Cole+ in a trade for a defender but I have given up on hoping for miracles
Cin
Eurosnob.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
Oh my ****ing god I hate Sportsnet so much. Kypreos thinks its obvious Roussel should be suspended...
Dr Pepper
Registered User
Elysian
Emo Stars Fan
So does the main board. Apparently sucker punches should be fined/suspended, cause they've never happened before.
David Castillo
Registered User
Yes, a guy with 18 professional games was going to be critical to keeping this defense from crumbling. This team's defense sucked with Nemeth, and it sucks without him.
I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, because no matter where I end up, Stars fans unanimously seem to think Nemeth was a big part of this team, but I think it's because his performances are considered against lesser expectations. He looked good last season because he didn't look out of place on a bad d-core. Which says what about the d-core? Exactly.
Keep in mind, I wanted to see Nemeth get more games and I liked him on that 3rd pair with Connauton. But I think his effectiveness is overstated simply because fans overstate the value of being a defensive defenseman in today's NHL. Just check out his possession stats.
They're not good. And if he was such a defensive defenseman, then why did he get 63% of his starts in the offensive zone? To note, his OZ zone finish was 44%. It's a classic base rate fallacy problem: he could sort of clear the crease, but that's all he could do. This team doesn't need a defensive defenseman. It needs a good defenseman, period. Nemeth might have developed into that, but I want to see more of him (he had a horrible preseason too) before declaring his worth because I think it's reasonable to be skeptical.
glovesave_35
Name
His zone deployment may have been due to shelter him defensively or it may have been done because he has been more helpful than other defensemen in the O-zone. With less than 20 games under his belt he was looking like the smartest defender on the team other than Daley. His pinches helped keep cycles alive, he was driving down low to aid the forecheck when needed, and he did so without being burned defensively hardly ever.
Btw, I hate citing a guy's career games played. It's no more relevant than people saying how Jordie played last year when he has regressed so much this year. The only relevant thing is what is happening in front of our eyes now, and Nemeth passed the eye test and the D-corps as a whole looked better than it does without him.
David Castillo
Registered User
If he was so helpful in the O-zone, then why don't his possession stats show as much? I don't want to argue this point too hard, because some people invariably seem to think I don't like Nemeth and think there was a better replacement. Which isn't true.
But I have eyes too. I saw a player who wasn't fast enough to move the play out of the zone, and who couldn't get the puck to forwards looking to break out. He understands his limitations, which is why he didn't pinch all the time, but that doesn't mean he's the answer to our defensive problems. Having said that, like anyone else, I hope he comes back healthy and ready to prove he belongs.
OttMorrow
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2003
- 3,721
- 1
100% agreed on Nemeth. Nemeth is supremely overrated on these boards. I think it's a "you want what you can't have deal". Nemeth is good and is likely going to be even better, but put him in the roster and the winless streak is likely still 7. I'd rather have Gonchar in there for his experience alone if I had to pick one of the two. I'm not convinced he is better than Jokipakka either.
glovesave_35
Name
A former 2nd round pick is not going to be "the answer" for this defense no matter how you dice up zone starts or possession stats. I also wouldn't call the preseason relevant, at least not as relevant as how he looked in the Ducks series, where he again played very solid hockey. If your point here is that losing Nemeth is not what has potentially doomed this ship then brilliant, I don't think many people are claiming as much. Losing him has caused our D to play worse than before he went down, though.
There is no "answer". We need more and more competent defensemen until everyone but Daley and one of Goligoski and Dillon (and those two only in reduced roles) are off the team. You don't remake a D-corps by adding the legendary #1 stud defenseman to a pile of piece parts. To a man, our defense has to be better, not just at the very top.
There is no "answer". We need more and more competent defensemen until everyone but Daley and one of Goligoski and Dillon (and those two only in reduced roles) are off the team. You don't remake a D-corps by adding the legendary #1 stud defenseman to a pile of piece parts. To a man, our defense has to be better, not just at the very top.
Actually Nemeth was getting some rightful criticism to the start of his season until he went down with injury. Once that happened everyone forgot he was struggling too.
glovesave_35
Name
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
"Supremely overrated" and when he was playing there were scant few people bringing up his play at all. I mentioned his timely pinches and smart plays from time to time and mostly heard crickets. I think some people just want to create a narrative so that they can be the opposing voice of reason.
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