GDT: Game 13: Sharks vs. Canucks 7:00pm NBCSCA

[DG93]

Ferraro is just a symptom, but his heavy minutes are indeed one of the reasons why this team has been so bad - because they're playing bad players like Ferraro for such a large share of their minutes.

No, playing in the NHL for six seasons doesn't make a player better than below average. It just means some team - some group of people - either thought a player was worth playing, might develop into someone worth playing, or that they just didn't have anyone better.

Ryan Reaves has had a 14+ year career. He has never once averaged higher than fourth-line minutes, so he is by definition "below average." Sticking around for a long time doesn't make you good or even average - it means someone, somewhere, thinks you have utility, whether you actually do or not.


If Grier is a worthwhile general manager, he will do what is best for the team. If we can get a positive asset for Ferraro, that is absolutely what is best for the team.

I wouldn't pay much for Ferraro - especially not given his contract - but I'm not an NHL GM getting suckered into paying premium costs for "grit."

Why are you guys arguing with a poster who has never said anything bad about a single player in his entire time posting here (or in the rare case that they truly stink, just says he "trusts the coaches and management")? He's never going to admit that someone sucks (regardless of underlying stats or everyone else's eye test that disagrees with his) and will appeal to authority + ignore your opinion because you are not a part of that "authority." I think this is an agree to disagree situation....

 

[weastern bias]

Good news everyone, there has never been a bad NHL general manager, no one in any front office has ever made a mistake in player evaluation, everyone wins the cup every year, actually

 

[hohosaregood]

Why are you guys arguing with a poster who has never said anything bad about a single player in his entire time posting here (or in the rare case that they truly stink, just says he "trusts the coaches and management")? He's never going to admit that someone sucks (regardless of underlying stats or everyone else's eye test that disagrees with his) and will appeal to authority + ignore your opinion because you are not a part of that "authority." I think this is an agree to disagree situation....

Well except for Gushchin for some reason.

 

[Hodge]

If every team were run perfectly there would still only be 1 Stanley Cup champion a year.

 

[weastern bias]

If every team were run perfectly there would still only be 1 Stanley Cup champion a year.

Can we really say this for certain?

None of us are privy to the conversations behind the scenes in league office, we don't KNOW that only one team wins the Stanley Cup each year, I'll defer to the experts on this one

 

[Alaskanice]

Why are you guys arguing with a poster who has never said anything bad about a single player in his entire time posting here (or in the rare case that they truly stink, just says he "trusts the coaches and management")? He's never going to admit that someone sucks (regardless of underlying stats or everyone else's eye test that disagrees with his) and will appeal to authority + ignore your opinion because you are not a part of that "authority." I think this is an agree to disagree situation....

I honestly do trust the coaches and management. They do know more than any of us here. That can’t be refuted. It’s true, I don’t pay attention to underlying stats, they’re too busy for me.
I actually do value opinions but when demeaning language is attached, I might say something. I find it lazy to just say someone is terrible. Over and over and over.
If someone “sucks,” I’ll say so. But my idea of suck is different than most. I don’t think Mario sucks. I don’t think Kunin sucks. I don’t think Thrun sucks. Do they make mistakes, of course. Are they doing more good than not? I think so. And to hohos holler, I don’t think Goose sucks. I just don’t think he’s built for this league. Yet. I want him to.
Just as I wanted Ryan Merkley to succeed. He sucks because he didn’t use his talent and grow it.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If you believe that is solely because of Ferraro, I can say that he is one of 20 players in each game.

Yet you can't seem to ever criticize any of them!

 

[Alaskanice]

Yet you can't seem to ever criticize any of them!

Such is me. I don’t criticize those over that I can’t do myself.
I have no clue how and what it takes to play the game at that level. I wish I did. I’d love to either play at or be involved at that level. I can’t/didn’t do so I’m a fan instead. A fanatic. Is it blind? You could say but I can say it’s blind to bitch about players and expect something to happen.
Or maybe some like to yell at clouds.

 

[weastern bias]

Counterpoint: Mike Milbury exists

 

[Anomie2029]

Such is me. I don’t criticize those over that I can’t do myself.
I have no clue how and what it takes to play the game at that level. I wish I did. I’d love to either play at or be involved at that level. I can’t/didn’t do so I’m a fan instead. A fanatic. Is it blind? You could say but I can say it’s blind to bitch about players and expect something to happen.
Or maybe some like to yell at clouds.

Should I assume you will never get a second doctors opinion? If so, how dare you even suggest the doctor could be wrong? It’s absurd to have this stance that because you personally can’t play at the NHL level you can’t be critical. The league would be only coached by former players.

I don’t think anyone would criticise Ferraro’s efforts and the work he has put in to get to the NHL. Ferraro is better than 99% of all people who play hockey - he just isn’t a good NHLer. You mention that he does all the other things right, but he doesn’t and that’s my main problem. He is constantly caught out of position whilst puck chasing. He is frequently on the wrong side in the net front battle. Hell, we praise for his shot blocking but he isn’t even the best at that when we looking at rates per 60.

It’s the fundamentals that let Ferraro down and I put it down to the fact that he has been given a pass when we should have been benched or scratched in the past. Ferraro’s development was botched and it’s irrepairable now.

Why was he given this free pass that no other young player has been? I’m sure a lot of it is that he is a good “locker room guy” and a lot of it is guilt for putting him in a position way above his level. But it’s at the point now that they need to move him or start showing accountability exists in the team.

 

[Le Grand Quebecois]

We keep saying Ferraro is good at blocking shots, but are we sure he's not just getting hit with the puck?

 

[Alaskanice]

Should I assume you will never get a second doctors opinion? If so, how dare you even suggest the doctor could be wrong? It’s absurd to have this stance that because you personally can’t play at the NHL level you can’t be critical. The league would be only coached by former players.

I don’t think anyone would criticise Ferraro’s efforts and the work he has put in to get to the NHL. Ferraro is better than 99% of all people who play hockey - he just isn’t a good NHLer. You mention that he does all the other things right, but he doesn’t and that’s my main problem. He is constantly caught out of position whilst puck chasing. He is frequently on the wrong side in the net front battle. Hell, we praise for his shot blocking but he isn’t even the best at that when we looking at rates per 60.

It’s the fundamentals that let Ferraro down and I put it down to the fact that he has been given a pass when we should have been benched or scratched in the past. Ferraro’s development was botched and it’s irrepairable now.

Why was he given this free pass that no other young player has been? I’m sure a lot of it is that he is a good “locker room guy” and a lot of it is guilt for putting him in a position way above his level. But it’s at the point now that they need to move him or start showing accountability exists in the team.

Getting a second opinion could mean my life. I don’t overlook that. If that’s an assumption you must make, do so.
I know he’s a good NHL player. Whether he does everything you think he should do or not. I also don’t think he’s irreparable. I think players want to grow and get better. I did. I’m no professional player.
You believe that they play him for 20 minutes a game over guilt? That’s a new one.
Now, he must be traded because you think so? I think he’s staying for some time. Not because of guilt. Because he’s a very good player.

 

[Lebanezer]

Such is me. I don’t criticize those over that I can’t do myself.
I have no clue how and what it takes to play the game at that level. I wish I did. I’d love to either play at or be involved at that level. I can’t/didn’t do so I’m a fan instead. A fanatic. Is it blind? You could say but I can say it’s blind to bitch about players and expect something to happen.
Or maybe some like to yell at clouds.

It's not your place to reprimand others because they think differently than you do. It's also naive to think that you can change their minds especially when you choose to belittle them for having a different opinion. It's probably the worst approach you could take because you're making it personal and earning the requisite vitriol. I'm not sure why you are wasting your time fighting this fight anyway. You can't change their minds, just like they can't change yours.

 

[Star Platinum]

There's a further point in that, in this case, we're appealing to the authorities who have led the Sharks to a cumulative 126-207-52 record during Mario Ferraro's NHL career (that's a .395 points percentage).

Like you could have done better!

The above was very unserious.

Ferraro is just a symptom, but his heavy minutes are indeed one of the reasons why this team has been so bad - because they're playing bad players like Ferraro for such a large share of their minutes.

No, playing in the NHL for six seasons doesn't make a player better than below average. It just means some team - some group of people - either thought a player was worth playing, might develop into someone worth playing, or that they just didn't have anyone better.

Ryan Reaves has had a 14+ year career. He has never once averaged higher than fourth-line minutes, so he is by definition "below average." Sticking around for a long time doesn't make you good or even average - it means someone, somewhere, thinks you have utility, whether you actually do or not.


If Grier is a worthwhile general manager, he will do what is best for the team. If we can get a positive asset for Ferraro, that is absolutely what is best for the team.

I wouldn't pay much for Ferraro - especially not given his contract - but I'm not an NHL GM getting suckered into paying premium costs for "grit."

Barclay Goodrow just walked into the room....

 

[Star Platinum]

Why are you guys arguing with a poster who has never said anything bad about a single player in his entire time posting here (or in the rare case that they truly stink, just says he "trusts the coaches and management")? He's never going to admit that someone sucks (regardless of underlying stats or everyone else's eye test that disagrees with his) and will appeal to authority + ignore your opinion because you are not a part of that "authority." I think this is an agree to disagree situation....

Cause there's no game until Tuesday and we're avoiding our families.

Can we really say this for certain?

None of us are privy to the conversations behind the scenes in league office, we don't KNOW that only one team wins the Stanley Cup each year, I'll defer to the experts on this one

I'm not even sure I'm qualified to say the puck is black - after all, I've never played the game and I'm not an expert on color.

 

[Star Platinum]

I honestly do trust the coaches and management. They do know more than any of us here. That can’t be refuted. It’s true, I don’t pay attention to underlying stats, they’re too busy for me.
I actually do value opinions but when demeaning language is attached, I might say something. I find it lazy to just say someone is terrible. Over and over and over.
If someone “sucks,” I’ll say so. But my idea of suck is different than most. I don’t think Mario sucks. I don’t think Kunin sucks. I don’t think Thrun sucks. Do they make mistakes, of course. Are they doing more good than not? I think so. And to hohos holler, I don’t think Goose sucks. I just don’t think he’s built for this league. Yet. I want him to.
Just as I wanted Ryan Merkley to succeed. He sucks because he didn’t use his talent and grow it.

I don't want to live in a world where I can't release frustration by complaining about Kunin from time to time.

We keep saying Ferraro is good at blocking shots, but are we sure he's not just getting hit with the puck?

Well, he is larger than the puck. Maybe his gravitational field is pulling the puck into his orbit?

 

[DG93]

I honestly do trust the coaches and management. They do know more than any of us here. That can’t be refuted. It’s true, I don’t pay attention to underlying stats, they’re too busy for me.
I actually do value opinions but when demeaning language is attached, I might say something. I find it lazy to just say someone is terrible. Over and over and over.
If someone “sucks,” I’ll say so. But my idea of suck is different than most. I don’t think Mario sucks. I don’t think Kunin sucks. I don’t think Thrun sucks. Do they make mistakes, of course. Are they doing more good than not? I think so. And to hohos holler, I don’t think Goose sucks. I just don’t think he’s built for this league. Yet. I want him to.
Just as I wanted Ryan Merkley to succeed. He sucks because he didn’t use his talent and grow it.

Yes, it can. Pete Chiarelli is objectively an idiot that ran multiple franchises into the ground with dumb decision-making (even posters here knew he made a bunch of laughably poor decisions). Regarding stats, just because you don't want to put in the effort to understand them doesn't change their utility.

You don't think Goose is built for this league? Well, a lot of us think that Ferraro's numerous deficiencies make him a borderline NHLer at best. His underlying stats are terrible, to the eye test of most of us here he looks like a chicken running around with its head cut off (always out of position, turns the puck over regularly, etc.), and he has minimal abilities on offense. Just because he is a great dude and works hard, doesn't mean coaches are doing the right thing by prioritizing that over the multitude of deficiencies in his game.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's not your place to reprimand others because they think differently than you do.

Yeah. Hodge has that job already.

 

[Alaskanice]

Yes, it can. Pete Chiarelli is objectively an idiot that ran multiple franchises into the ground with dumb decision-making (even posters here knew he made a bunch of laughably poor decisions). Regarding stats, just because you don't want to put in the effort to understand them doesn't change their utility.

You don't think Goose is built for this league? Well, a lot of us think that Ferraro's numerous deficiencies make him a borderline NHLer at best. His underlying stats are terrible, to the eye test of most of us here he looks like a chicken running around with its head cut off (always out of position, turns the puck over regularly, etc.), and he has minimal abilities on offense. Just because he is a great dude and works hard, doesn't mean coaches are doing the right thing by prioritizing that over the multitude of deficiencies in his game.

Got it

 

[Alaskanice]

It's not your place to reprimand others because they think differently than you do. It's also naive to think that you can change their minds especially when you choose to belittle them for having a different opinion. It's probably the worst approach you could take because you're making it personal and earning the requisite vitriol. I'm not sure why you are wasting your time fighting this fight anyway. You can't change their minds, just like they can't change yours.

It was not my intention to reprimand anyone. I try to make it about me and my ideas, if I made it about someone, that’s my mistake. I don’t know them.

 

[Hangemhigh]

Cardwell is going to be a solid 3rd line NHLer (reminds me of torrey mitchell).

So a solid 4th liner on a playoff team?