Value of: Gabriel Landeskog
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- Jan 18, 2016
- 35,633
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In a vacuum paccioretty and Landy have pretty similar value, but there's no way the Avs would want to trade him, so you'd have to give up a lot more to acquire him.
strictlyrandy
Registered User
Depends who is calling who. If Montreal is calling about Landy, Avs set the price. It doesn't matter what fair value is. Avs have no reason to trade him and even less reason to take equal value for him. If it's the Avs calling Montreal to see if they want him that hurts his value and Montreal would get to set their price essentially.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
The opinion of a Avs fan confirms it
As for Weber for Landy in a trade, the Avs would be all over it. 100% Guaranteed. Enjoy being the Oilers of no defense on the team.
EJ, Barrie, Beauchemin, Zadorov, Bigras...yup, no defense on this team. And the way to fix that is by moving our best two way forward...
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
In a vacuum, probably not (obviously, that depends on the pieces). In reality, the Avs have absolutely no incentive to move Landeskog, so if you want him, you need to overpay by a large margin or the Avs are very happy to keep him.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
strictlyrandy
Registered User
Fowler wouldn't be the main piece coming back. Avs already told Anaheim it'd be Lindholm iirc and they walked away. Fowler is not the type of player the Avs would want in return.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
- 56,520
- 73,944
LW Gabriel Landeskog
LW Max Pacioretty
D Mikhail Sergachev
That's about what it would take, and at that point I'm not sure why the Canadiens would do it either.
Yeah no
Avs44
Registered User
- May 16, 2011
- 21,997
- 10,867
EJ isn't a top pairing defensman? Barrie only has "potential" for top four minutes. Oh man, you keep turning out gold.
Legend123
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2016
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I meant Zadorov and Bigras. Barrie is already a top 4 Dman but not a top pairing one. EJ isnt. Hes #3. Check my post above.
Makar Goes Fast
grocery stick
hahah no ej is easily top pairing, borderline number 1. hes about the 20th best dman in the league. barrie is about top 35.
you knowledge of colorado is way off.
strictlyrandy
Registered User
No offense, but if that's what you think, you really don't know anything about the Avs. EJ is a #2 defenseman that on his best nights is a complete #1 and on his worst is a #3. He's a solid top pairing defenseman, and would be one on a contender. Barrie is an elite offensive D that is a #3 that likely sees his defense improve now that the Avs have hired Bednar and Pratt (Pratt has worked wonders with the Blue Jackets young D). Beauchemin is still a top 4 as long as he doesn't get ridden hard and told to block all the shots.
Avs are missing an elite true #1 D, but those are incredibly rare and only a few of them are in the league.
Zadorov is still a huge question mark, but he has all the tools to reach his ceiling. Bigras has a pretty high ceiling too and should be much more than a top 4 defenseman.
Avs44
Registered User
- May 16, 2011
- 21,997
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It is a farce if you think EJ is not a top pairing defensman. An absolute joke. You don't deserve to be taken remotely seriously.
Legend123
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2016
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No my knowledge is good enough. Im talking as of now. EJ is not a top pairing Dman. Would contending teams use him as one?? I dont think they would.
As for Barrie, you said it yourself, hes a #3. What did i Say?? I said he isnt a top pairing Dman. I guess I was off. Zadarov is not a top pairing Dman, dont even try to argue on that one, he isnt even yet a top 4 D. His potential, as I said, is top 4.
Sure you can use Beauchemin as a #4. But as I said, IDEALLY, hes a bottom pairing Dman. I wouldnt want him on my top 2 pairings.
You just confirmed what I thought. Sometimes bias is tough to think thru what ppl say.
Makar Goes Fast
grocery stick
i bet you can't name 30 dmen better than EJ, since you dont think he is a top 2, that should be very easy for you.
Legend123
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2016
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An avs fan would say this after being confronted on the truth. If you dont think its the truth than show me proof he plays as one.
Avs44
Registered User
- May 16, 2011
- 21,997
- 10,867
The definition of a top pairing defensman is now what contenders would have him on their top pairing? That's an awfully subjective and made-up definition. What constitutes a contender? Why is that metric the sole determiner? Who decides that all, you, subjectively? That seems pretty stupid for a start. Additionally, should we evaluate who would be on the top pairing of a contender just based off a raw depth chart of who's best? Or should we take into account chemistry? If it's the latter, that's not fair either, as we can't hypothesize what chemistry EJ, for example, would have with left handed defenders on a contender.
Look at Tampa....Stralman vs. EJ on the right side. To me they are not that far off, but I would take take EJ personally. However, Stralman is a great fit with Hedman, so who's actually the top pairing defender according to your ridiculous definition, Stralman, or EJ? Or what about handedness? Letang is better than EJ, but I easily take EJ over anything Pittsburgh has on the left side. Again, according to your definition, is EJ now not a top pairing defensman because, even though he'd be the second best defender on the Cup champs, he's not left handed? Your definition is pretty silly, and easy to poke full of holes. Try again. You're the one making controversial claims, the onus is in your camp to prove it.
Legend123
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2016
- 9,989
- 5,233
Lol.
Obv Better:
Risto, Faulk, Jones, Ekblad, Weber, Leddy, McDonagh, Karlsson, Gostisbehere, Letang, Stralman, Hedman, Carlson, Lindholm, Ekman-Larsson, Giordano, Brodie, Keith, Klingberg, Doughty, Suter, Josi, Subban, Vlasic, Burns, Pietrangelo, Byfuglien.
Arguably better or equal:
Yandle, Hamonic, Niskanen, Fowler, Muzzin, Shattenkirk, Bouwmeester, Tanev, and more
30 is ezpz
Avs44
Registered User
- May 16, 2011
- 21,997
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Hey Legend123, over in this thread you argued until you managed to get it locked over Gallagher / Galchenyuk / JVR. The basis of your arguments was advanced stats, with you posting HERO charts and takes like this:
Clearly you value stats like shot generation, shot suppression, and possession numbers. You also clearly value HERO charts since you posted them (post #58). All of these posts are in your posting history within the last 24 hours, so to now denounce the very stuff you posted as irrelevant would be hypocritical, wouldn't you agree? I mean, you made arguments like this...
It would appear you already agree advanced numbers are what matters, and you've kindly already outlined what advanced numbers you value (HERO charts; shot suppression, possession, shot generation). So what do you say to this?
Look at that...EJ has better shot suppression, better possession, and better shot generation numbers than star #1 defensman Shea Weber, even though measly EJ isn't even a top pairing defensman according to your latest hot take in this thread? I mean...I don't necessarily buy into HERO charts or these numbers, but we've got evidence that you clearly do. [MOD]
Clearly you value stats like shot generation, shot suppression, and possession numbers. You also clearly value HERO charts since you posted them (post #58). All of these posts are in your posting history within the last 24 hours, so to now denounce the very stuff you posted as irrelevant would be hypocritical, wouldn't you agree? I mean, you made arguments like this...
It would appear you already agree advanced numbers are what matters, and you've kindly already outlined what advanced numbers you value (HERO charts; shot suppression, possession, shot generation). So what do you say to this?
Look at that...EJ has better shot suppression, better possession, and better shot generation numbers than star #1 defensman Shea Weber, even though measly EJ isn't even a top pairing defensman according to your latest hot take in this thread? I mean...I don't necessarily buy into HERO charts or these numbers, but we've got evidence that you clearly do. [MOD]
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IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
I would explain why this list has 10-15 people on it that aren't anywhere near as good as EJ, but it wouldn't do any good. Anyone who watches EJ regularly knows he's much better than his reputation on HF.
Legend123
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2016
- 9,989
- 5,233
What?? lol I argued Gallagher was a more effective player on the offensive zone than JvR. As far as im aware, EJ plays D. Stop posting irrelevant info.Hey Legend123, over in this thread you argued until you managed to get it locked over Gallagher / Galchenyuk / JVR. The basis of your arguments was advanced stats, with you posting HERO charts and takes like this:
Clearly you value stats like shot generation, shot suppression, and possession numbers. You also clearly value HERO charts since you posted them (post #58). All of these posts are in your posting history within the last 24 hours, so to now denounce the very stuff you posted as irrelevant would be hypocritical, wouldn't you agree? I mean, you made arguments like this...
It would appear you already agree advanced numbers are what matters, and you've kindly already outlined what advanced numbers you value (HERO charts; shot suppression, possession, shot generation). So what do you say to this?
Look at that...EJ has better shot suppression, better possession, and better shot generation numbers than star #1 defensman Shea Weber, even though measly EJ isn't even a top pairing defensman according to your latest hot take in this thread? I mean...I don't necessarily buy into HERO charts or these numbers, but we've got evidence that you clearly do. [MOD]
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strictlyrandy
Registered User
You said "have the potential for top four minutes" meaning you don't believe anyone on the Avs is already a top 4. Barrie is at worst a top 3 right now that already has the ability and potential to play top pairing with the right partner. EJ is a top pairing and that's been proven to you via what you value most (hero charts).
You can't make a claim and then move the goal posts. That's not how this works.
EJ is easily a top pairing defenseman and easily one on a contender. There's quite a few players on the list you made that EJ is better than right now while some have the potential to be.
Just because you don't like him doesn't make your takes correct. Even adanced stats that you've clung to dearly indicate he is. Now that they don't fit your narrative are they wrong?
