Value of: Gabriel Landeskog
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Legend123
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Weber's contract is certainly not "Good".
bad for preds? yes. good for habs? yes.
He gets payed less than his cap hit which is always a good thing. A cap hit of 7.8 is good for a player his statue.
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Legend123
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lol one is a D and one is a F but according to this hf poster, the F is better. Say what??
NHL dont keep any stats on a player's effectiveness in his own zone. SO what kind of proof do u want? And plz show me your 'evidence' that landy is better. For all I've heard u say is the evidence, the proof, the numbers back me up, but where the F89k is that at?? Show me. lmao
strictlyrandy
Registered User
Ryan O'Reilly is better a defense than some of the defenseman on his own team... there's nothing that says a forward can't be good at defense.
The numbers? Landeskog is a better possession player and actually suppresses shots when in his own zone. He's more sound defensively than Weber is. Even a simple HERO chart says that. The numbers I'm reading from are from stats.hockeyanalysis.com. I've been browsing defenseman who've played a minimum of 1,000 minutes over the last season. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...000&teamid=0&type=shots&sort=toi&sortdir=DESC
Weber isn't an elite stay at home defenseman. You still haven't said WHY you think he is. I've said where Weber is bad.
You seem to not comprehend that a defenseman can actually be bad at defense. Weber is not a good possession player. He's not a good stay at home defenseman. There's nothing out there to indicate that he is.
You seem to be mad online about this all though. Sorry to burst your bubble that Weber isn't what you think he is. Prove me wrong on my claims on Weber. I'm openly inviting you to. Hell, I'd LOVE if you could because that way I'd feel a lot better about the Preds getting Subban. Subban is the better defender between the two though.
You can't prove that Weber is an elite stay at home defenseman. You can't even prove that he's a competent one. You can't prove that he's better than Landeskog defensively. Maybe it's time to back off of your argument. Stats back up my arguments. My eye test backs it up as well.
So to go back to your original argument...no...the Avs would NOT embrace a 1 for 1 swap of Weber for Landy. Landy is the better player and has the better contract.
Legend123
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wow
That confirms then that Josi is real bad at D and that players like Gallagher are better than both in thier own end?? ahahhahahahahahaha
You seem to forget that hockey is a team sport.
I just knew he would use stats like that to prove his claims. Those stats dont say anything about the player's effectiveness in his own zone. A simple rebuttal would be Weber and Josi are both heavily relied to shut down opponents top forwards and starts most of their shifts in their own zone. Plus they play half the game on a team that has been lacking good offensive forwards. The preds. Thats why they traded Johansen for Jones.
strictlyrandy
Registered User
wow
That confirms then that Josi is real bad at D and that players like Gallagher are better than both in thier own end?? ahahhahahahahahaha
You seem to forget that hockey is a team sport.
Josi is an amazing defenseman...I never claimed he wasn't. Josi is one of the best D in the game. I never said Gallagher was better at defense than Josi. You're jumping to conclusions and being silly about it.
I said Landeskog is better in the defensive zone than Weber is. I said that because it's true.
You can't prove me wrong, so, guess I'm done with you because you provide nothing to this thread other than a tantrum because someone said something you don't like.
strictlyrandy
Registered User
wow
That confirms then that Josi is real bad at D and that players like Gallagher are better than both in thier own end?? ahahhahahahahahaha
You seem to forget that hockey is a team sport.
I just knew he would use stats like that to prove his claims. Those stats dont say anything about the player's effectiveness in his own zone. A simple rebuttal would be Weber and Josi are both heavily relied to shut down opponents top forwards and starts most of their shifts in their own zone. Plus they play half the game on a team that has been lacking good offensive forwards. The preds. Thats why they traded Johansen for Jones.
You just knew I'd use hard concrete evidence that proves what I'm claiming? LOL, wow man. Yeah, you're beyond silly. Enjoy having Weber.
P.S. They traded Jones for RyJo because they needed a #1 center. They already had Josi as their #1 defenseman. They saw the writing on the wall with Weber. They got better by flipping him for Subban.
So yeah...you can't prove your own claims whereas I can prove mine. Good day to you sir.
Legend123
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Here let me clarify.
Josi has the same exact advanced numbers as Weber. Go over to chart hero. Gallagher has some very nice advanced numbers but as a habs fan, not an avs fan, I know hes not good in his own zone.
So if you can conclude, in a terrible manner, that since Landy has better advanced numbers as Weber, which dont say at all how effective he is in his own zone, he should be a better defensive player than I can easily conclude that gallagher is better than Josi in his own zone as well better than Weber, which would be absolute joke. lol
There's reason Weber was picked to play alongside Vlasic to be the top pairing, shut down Dman.
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Legend123
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So now Subban is better defensively?? lol not too long ago ppl were saying hes the worst Defensive Dman. lolololol
Stop using irrelevant stats to prove ur claims. Its like me showing Weber scored more points than Hedman, so hes a better player cuz points dictate whos better. I used concrete evidence? no?
strictlyrandy
Registered User
I never said Subban was trash defensively. Subban is one of the best D in the game. I should stop using irrelevant stats that are in all reality relevant? Weird. So the stats and my eye test (I've watched Weber a lot) all say the same thing.
If you want to be so ridiculous to suggest that points indicate who is better, that's on you. Everyone else knows there's more to it than that. Too bad putting up points is all Weber is really good at anymore.
Possession metrics aren't the end all be all. Most people know that. They do help tell a huge part of the story. The story on Weber is that he's been declining over the last 3 years and pretty rapidly in that regard. The numbers help illustrate that.
You still haven't said why you think Weber is an elite shut down defenseman, in fact the only "evidence" you gave is that he's good offensively, which I've said (repeatedly). You still can't prove Weber is what you think he is. You've only helped me prove my point.
Landeskog is better defensively than Shea Weber. Landeskog is a better overall player than Shea Weber. Landeskog is on a better contract than Shea Weber. Shea Weber is not an elite stay at home defenseman.
You've not proven anything.
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Legend123
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You havent proved anything at all. All u have managed to say is that if you have numbers like Gallagher you would be better defensively than Josi and Weber in their zone. Funny.
Josi has same exact advanced numbers as weber. And wait Josi is elte and not Weber? hahahah ok. Btw, Weber, in fact, has better advanced numbers than Josi.
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Legend123
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strictlyrandy
Registered User
You mentioned Gallagher. Not me. Josi is elite. I've watched Josi play. As I've said (again repeatedly) that by my eye and the numbers support how I feel about Weber. Josi by my eye is the much better player. That should address your point below.
Also, really funny how you stomp your feet and claim that advanced stats aren't relevant while in the other thread you're using them to say that Gallagher is superior to JVR and that context doesn't matter.
Weber drags Josi down. You'll see this for Nashville now that Weber is gone. Again. I've proven how I feel my backing it up with sound logic and numbers. You just want to stomp your feet and pout that someone doesn't think Weber is what you think he is.
Just stop while you're behind man. You have yet to refute ANY claims I've made. So again, good day to you.
Avs fans have spoken. There's not a player that Montreal has that we'd trade Landeskog for. Not 1 for 1. There's nothing that the Habs have that interests us in moving Landeskog.
Legend123
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hahah nice attempt at dancing around ur one sided claims. So Josi's even worse numbers are due to Weber?? hahahahh. Why cant u say Weber's numbers are due to josi?? ahhahahahah No i guess ur eye is an expert on evaluating players. It must be so much better than experts like babs that its astonishing ur not hired by an NHL team.
As for 1v1 trades? Good thing we dont need to make a 1v1 trade with the avs. The habs would severely lose in such scenario with players like galchenyuk, price and weber. Keep ur players, ill keep mine.
I said Gally is by far more effective as a player than JvR based on advanced numbers but never did i say hes better defensively than JvR.
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Makar Goes Fast
grocery stick
im not going to argue value one for one, but there is no chance colordo trades landeskpg for a young center of equal value to himself. only way landy would go for gally is if there was a decent add to force the avs to say yes.
Legend123
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strictlyrandy
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IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
In a vacuum, yes, they do. But, in Denver, where we have Duchene and MacKinnon, with guys like Compher and Jost in the system, and only Landeskog as a top 6 winger, we will gladly keep our captain and best winger over another center.
Makar Goes Fast
grocery stick
cool story. we have duchene and mackinon. Trading landy for a center helps us NONE FOLD. which is why if a deal invovled a center, there would need to be another peice that makes colorado actually do the trade.
teams aren't going to like that (rightfully so), which means landy for a center would never happen.
Legend123
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Fair enough. Same for mtl. Not enough Cs and too many Wingers. No sense at all for mtl to lose galchenyuk just to acquire another W.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
I agree it doesn't make sense from either side, and there aren't any major trades between these teams that would be mutually beneficial.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
LW Gabriel Landeskog
LW Max Pacioretty
D Mikhail Sergachev
That's about what it would take, and at that point I'm not sure why the Canadiens would do it either.
He is pretty valuable ,it would take another high end winger and something else for the AVA,s to even think about it
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