G Jesper Wallstedt (2021, 20th, MIN)

[Rabid Ranger]

Then, similarly, the idea that Knight or Askarov being more of a sure-thing than Wallstedt should make no sense to you?


Do you seriously hold it against Wallstedt that he wasn't the best goalie in the SHL for him going top 15? His stats went down, yeah, coinciding with Luleå's play dropping like a rock. Which is why you don't simply stat watch.

As far as the WJC's go, he was good, I'd hardly say he was just adequate. Should've started over Alnefelt, who I assume you thought straight sucked?

Yes, he doesn't rely on his athleticism as much as Askarov or Knight, but it's more that he doesn't have to, and that's something that is great. Could he improve certain aspects of his athleticism? Sure. His glove, & lateral movement are top notch though.


Well, first off: lets start with saying you've never liked Wallstedt even when in your mind he was thought of as a "prodigy" earlier, so the same sentiment kind of applies to you, don't you think? People view prospects differently, and if you don't agree that's ok. Wallstedt's poise, IQ(positioning, rebound control), & puckhandling are the primary things for me. One can also take a look at his lateral movement, & glove.


Again, why did you expect him to dominate a league like SHL? Knight wasn't the best goalie in, nor dominated, the USHL his draft year, a far worse league, heck, the following year he wasn't the best goalie in the NCAA, wtf Knight, BUST! So I don't see your point.

It's not that you dislike him, that's been known for a while, it's the way you present your personal view of things. If you simply say that you don't think he's reliable, great! But if you say things like isn't gounded in reality then you should be ready for people to challenge you on it because it's a really poor choice of words.

Knight doesn't rely on his athleticism. He relies on his technique and positioning. Askarov is more of an "athletic" goalie.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Do you seriously hold it against Wallstedt that he wasn't the best goalie in the SHL for him going top 15? His stats went down, yeah, coinciding with Luleå's play dropping like a rock. Which is why you don't simply stat watch.

As far as the WJC's go, he was good, I'd hardly say he was just adequate. Should've started over Alnefelt, who I assume you thought straight sucked?

Yes, he doesn't rely on his athleticism as much as Askarov or Knight, but it's more that he doesn't have to, and that's something that is great. Could he improve certain aspects of his athleticism? Sure. His glove, & lateral movement are top notch though.

I don't hold it against him. I think thats besides the point actually. People suggest he's this transformative goaltender that deserves to be ranked top 5-10. Thats higher than the draft position of either goalie that went first round the last two years. So it suggests he's better than those guys, maybe substantially better. Knight's draft season he was excellent, and there were almost no relevant questions about him between his skillset, production, and consistency. The only thing there was to question about that season was that he got out-dueled by Askarov in the big games they played against each other that season. I think there was a fair question whether he was great in the biggest games. It was fair to question if he was very good, but not as good as Askarov coming the year behind him. He's since answered those questions that he can put in big performances in big games with his WJC and NHL performances this season.

Askarov had built up a reputation where his team is significantly under-manned in talent, and wins tournaments or at least big games by himself. He's done this to many times. He's shown a consistent ability to steal big games against better hockey teams. There had been some questions about his performances in a few international tournaments and he's more raw than Knight and Wallstet, but when considering the full picture, it's not as if the numbers he was putting up weren't elite.

Thats why I say I don't know what has given Wallstedt this reputation where he has overtaken these guys. He doesn't have the great international tournaments that they had, especially in Askarov's case. Thats not his fault, given when COVID hit, although Askarov was also effected due to that. He doesn't have more natural talent. I'm not seeing what makes him a tier above these guys. He doesn't have substantially better league form. No, I'm not holding it against him that he's not the best goalie or one of the best goalies in the SHL, but if someone wants to assert he's a generational goaltender, it'd be nice to distinguish himself in some area. To me, it seems like he's getting bumped up by a reputation from when he was 13 or 14. He's getting credit for being known a year or two earlier, and somehow that makes him this generational level goalie that those other guys don't get credit for.

Do I think Wallstedt is a good goalie prospect? Yes, I've never stated otherwise. I think he's easily a first rounder, and one of the better goalie prospects in recent years. However, I don't think he's the absolute best. I don't see what he has done to get this reputation. I've explained why I would put him below the two goalies that went top 15 the last two years (lack of standout international tournaments, overall athleticism differences between the three, proven consistent ability to steal games, or over-arching better league form).

Well, first off: lets start with saying you've never liked Wallstedt even when in your mind he was thought of as a "prodigy" earlier, so the same sentiment kind of applies to you, don't you think? People view prospects differently, and if you don't agree that's ok. Wallstedt's poise, IQ(positioning, rebound control), & puckhandling are the primary things for me. One can also take a look at his lateral movement, & glove.

It's fair to say that I'm lower on Wallstedt than most people. I wouldn't say I dislike Wallstedt or am a hater, but some say I dislike Sanderson and am a hater because I think people come up with these bogus reasons that aren't very tangible for why he's rated so highly. Call it what you want, but it's besides the point. I'm asking for what tangibly elevates Wallstedt so high, and I'm not seeing any good explanations. But yes, I agree that people can have different opinions. I've never suggested otherwise, but I am putting forth my argument for this debate.

Again, why did you expect him to dominate a league like SHL? Knight wasn't the best goalie in, nor dominated, the USHL his draft year, a far worse league, heck, the following year he wasn't the best goalie in the NCAA, wtf Knight, BUST! So I don't see your point.

This isn't true. Knight was absolutely the best goalie in the USHL his draft year, and I'd argue he was probably the best goalie in the NCAA his D+1 season. Maybe Swayman might've been better, but it was likely close, and Swayman is proving that he's very good, along with being multiple years older than Knight.

I suspect you are pointing to stats to suggest he wasn't the best. I think using stats as the only measurement without context is a bad idea. NTDP goalies are always statistically at a big disadvantage playing behind the youngest team in the USHL, and a team that has less structure, more offensive players, and plays less systems hockey. That NTDP team Knight played for also was probably the most offensively talented team that there's been. They played very little defense, so that can effect a goalie's SV%. When you face a disproportionate amount of high danger shots compared to medium or low danger shots due to the risky style the team plays, it's going to hurt your numbers. Commesso had better numbers the year after Knight at the NTDP, and no one seriously suggested he had a better season.

In the NCAA, it's a league where there are so many teams that it's very hard to compare raw stats. Some teams play very easy schedules, and others play very hard schedules. Conference weakness often amounts for a lot of the times you'll see an unknown player who'll never make the NHL among the statistical leaders. Knight had a .931 in Hockey East as a Freshman. If he wasn't the best and Swayman was better than him, which I think is a fair debate, being second best to a top 5 goalie prospect in the world whose two and a half years older with significant prior experience in NCAA doesn't exactly speak poorly of Knight.

And my argument has never been that Wallstedt is overrated because he puts up bad stats. He doesn't put up bad stats. Stats is relevant, but is only one measure. The context behind those stats is also relevant. There are many different things that go into a discussion like this.

It's not that you dislike him, that's been known for a while, it's the way you present your personal view of things. If you simply say that you don't think he's reliable, great! But if you say things like isn't gounded in reality then you should be ready for people to challenge you on it because it's a really poor choice of words.

It's not a poor choice of words. It's the words I chose to use, and I would use them again.

I think sometimes people have opinions that aren't based on reason. Sometimes, we have opinions based on what we hear, what should make sense, our rooting interests, and narratives we believe.

I can give an opinion that I think a prospect like Eklund may be slightly overrated because I don't believe he'll stick at center. Thats a simple disagreement I might have. I may be right or may be wrong. It's a very simple situation. He sticks at center or he doesn't. I understand the situation very well.

With Wallstedt, I believe it's a more complicated situation. It reminds me of Sanderson last year. People put forth arguments that I couldn't see the tangible reason behind it. I asked many times for people to explain it for Sanderson, and never got a great answer that distilled it to a difference of opinion about something easily identifiable or quantifiable. Maybe I'm just dumb and don't understand what I'm reading. Thats always possible. More likely though, I think the argument Wallstedt isn't well articulated. It's based more on shaping of narratives, in my opinion. I think this is unfortunately part of evaluating players for the draft. Not every determination is 100% based on reason, as I said. This is a fact of life that some decisions we make aren't based on pure reason. We are all guilty of it. It's going to happen in any profession.

And this is purely my opinion. I never suggested otherwise, but I have explained what I think, and I have no reason to not try to evaluate this based on the information in front of me.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's the third best league in the world... You wouldn't expect a goalie that hasn't even been drafted yet to be one of the best in the AHL either... or even the WHL.

I absolutely love it when people comment about leagues they never followed.

You are missing the point completely.

It's not expected he'll be the best goalie in the league. But if you want to assert that Wallstedt is a generational goalie, worthy of being a top 5-10 pick, he needs to distinguish himself somehow. Would you say he distinguished himself with his club form this season? You are making excuses for his season, which gives us the answer to that question.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

You are missing the point completely.

It's not expected he'll be the best goalie in the league. But if you want to assert that Wallstedt is a generational goalie, worthy of being a top 5-10 pick, he needs to distinguish himself somehow. Would you say he distinguished himself with his club form this season? You are making excuses for his season, which gives us the answer to that question.

I haven't made excuses, I'm pretty sure this is my first post here? I haven't called him generational either.

Either way even if he was generational you can't expect a goalie to dominate the SHL before even having been drafted.

Askarov was ranked high he struggled at times aswell, didn't he underperform in the WJC before he got drafted?

 

[Zaddy]

FWIW I like Wallstedt better than Askarov. Yaroslav got overhyped because he makes highlight reel saves (still a very good goalie prospect though obviously). Wallstedt is more in the mold of Knight, just really solid positionally and calm in net. That's a lot more sustainable and predictable than someone who relies on their athleticism. You generally wouldn't have to make those highlight reel saves if you weren't out of position in the first place, so while it may look cool, it's not a particularly good style to play. I never understood why Askarov got put in a tier above Knight. Not a shocker that Knight was able to come in to the NHL and look good right away. Three years from now Wallstedt might do the same.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I haven't made excuses, I'm pretty sure this is my first post here?

It's the third best league in the world... You wouldn't expect a goalie that hasn't even been drafted yet to be one of the best in the AHL either... or even the WHL.

I haven't called him generational either.

Either way even if he was generational you can't expect a goalie to dominate the SHL before even having been drafted.

Askarov was ranked high he struggled at times aswell, didn't he underperform in the WJC before he got drafted?

What are you arguing against then?

And I’ve made it clear that I’m arguing against this idea that Wallstedt was a better prospect than Knight/Askarov. I think he was worse. I already addressed that Askarov had a few uneven international events pre-draft. That shouldn’t be held against him, just as it wouldn’t be held against Wallstedt or anyone else.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Gotta be who Stevie wants with this trade

Edit - nope!

 

[nergish]

Hard to believe this guy is not the first goalie taken, but Cossa is right there too.

Wally will make some team very happy.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Hard to believe this guy is not the first goalie taken, but Cossa is right there too.

Wally will make some team very happy.

I'm very curious who's gonna take him

 

[theslatcher]

I'm very curious who's gonna take him

Oilers if I had to guess.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Oilers if I had to guess.

Ya that's what I'm kinda assuming now

 

[Timeless Winter]

Oilers should take him at 20.

 

[LRS87]

Has to be going to EDM.

 

[MMC]

Welcome to Minnesota

 

[Kevin Musto]

Rossi and Khusnutdinov last year. Wallstedt this year.

Minnesota keeps taking my guys.

Steal. Congrats Wild fans. Generational goalie.

 

[Oil Spill]

Congratulations Minny, Holland is senile.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Value at 20 is pretty good. I don’t think he was worth the same type of draft slot of the two goalies the last two years, but a late first for the top goalie in most years is a good pick.

 

[CreamOfTheCrop]

Oilers if I had to guess.

That aged very well

 

[theslatcher]

That aged very well

Well, he was picked with their pick. Just not by the team we thought.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Does anyone know why he dropped? There seems to be a huge split in the community; some saying he is one of the best goalies Sweden has ever produced to saying he's an okay starter.

 

[theslatcher]

Does anyone know why he dropped? There seems to be a huge split in the community; some saying he is one of the best goalies Sweden has ever produced to saying he's an okay starter.

Potential character issues. His drop should have nothing to do with his play on the ice.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Potential character issues. His drop should have nothing to do with his play on the ice.

Any specifics? Goalies are all a little weird.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Rossi and Khusnutdinov last year. Wallstedt this year.

Minnesota keeps taking my guys.

Steal. Congrats Wild fans. Generational goalie.

Same here. I might have to switch allegiance.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Any specifics? Goalies are all a little weird.

Pronman refers to "work ethic concerns in the scouting community" as a reason why he fell, but doesn't really elaborate further on it.

Wild's 2021 NHL Draft picks: Grades, fit and full scouting reports – The Athletic

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

The pick in a vacuum is very good value. I know in terms of risk reduction, it’s not a wise choice to take a goalie in the 1st round. We’ll see; I think early returns from the recent group of goalies take is that weird startongn to get better at identifying elite goalie prospects to the point where they have a similar miss/hit rate as skaters. However, it’s certainly too early to tell.

At the end of the day, if he comes in in 2 years like many think he can, and shatters Wild goalie records over the course of his career, I think we’ll be more than happy with the pick.