G Cayden Primeau (2017, 199th, MTL)

[greasysnapper]

Primeau is why NU made the NCAA tournament, look at his play since he came back from the WJC's, he was great. BU had the talent to be a better team. There's a reason why he was picked each year as one of the top 5 goalies in the NCAA and it's because he played so well. His numbers are better, he's viewed as better by the people that pick the semi and finalists for the Mike Richter award, he looked better in head to head games vs Oettinger. So that's why I asked how is he better in the NCAA when Primeau has looked better, done better and had better numbers while on a team that wasn't loaded with talent.

You're stat watching bud. There's a reason guys like Jaillet (last years best NCAA goalie and Mike Richter award winner) look like trash in the ECHL and are unsigned. Look, Primeau has certainly improved his game, but I guarantee you there isn't a real scout who'd take Primeau over Oettinger.


Oettinger is head and shoulders ahead of Primeau in every facet of the goaltending repertoire.

 

[montreal]

Feels like you are arguing he's a better goalie prospect while responding to someone that's arguing Primeau had a better NCAA career.

correct, I don't know enough about Oettinger to say who's the better goalie prospect, but in the NCAA Primeau has been the better goalie imo.

I agree with Pavel. If I was a NHL GM I rather have Oettinger today than Primeau. Primeau had a great season and has played well but I think Oettinger has higher pro upside.

that's fair for sure since one is a 1st round pick and the other a 7th round. Primeau did have a great season and last season he was even better especially if you look at his numbers after the 1st few games of his debut in the NCAA before he locked down the starters job. Since NU's home games are free as well as some other HE schools, I saw the bulk of his starts over the last 2 seasons and he was very impressive for the most part. This year he had some struggles earlier on in the year but really turned it on after the wjc's going 15-5-1 before crapping the bed at the ncaa tourny. Over that 21 game span he let in more then 3 goals just once and over 2 goals just 5 times.

Colton Point ( Dallas 5th rounder 2016 ) had an insane NCAA career and so far it has not translated to the pros . He was basically the only reason Colgate had any chance to win games last season with his 1.74 GAA and .944 SV% in 33 games

So lets not overrate or underrate players because of NCAA play.

For sure you don't want to overrate a player just because of what they did in the NCAA as it's hard to say how they will adjust. I learned my lesson from Danny Kristo who in his Senior year was one of the top scorers/players in the NCAA but couldn't get out of the AHL although there were red flags that I should have paid more attention to.

I can't speak to Point but I'm always take more caution with guys that play most of their games against weaker competition. Doesn't mean they won't be very good or not, just that it's something I keep in mind.

 

[montreal]

You're stat watching bud. There's a reason guys like Jaillet (last years best NCAA goalie and Mike Richter award winner) look like trash in the ECHL and are unsigned. Look, Primeau has certainly improved his game, but I guarantee you there isn't a real scout who'd take Primeau over Oettinger.


Oettinger is head and shoulders ahead of Primeau in every facet of the goaltending repertoire.

I'm not as I've seen most of his games. And Jaillet didn't win the Mike Richter award last year, it was Cale Morris from Notre Dame.

https://www.mikerichteraward.com/semifinalists-finalists

Primeau and Jaillet's numbers were very close last year, the difference is Jaillet was a 24 year old Senior and Primeau an 18 year old Freshman. Now Denver is also one of the top programs in the NCAA and often loaded with NHL draft picks. NU is not in the same league as them so for Primeau to put up very similar numbers on a smaller program while being 6 years younger and a Freshman is a bit more impressive imo.

Also I never said Oettinger was the better prospect, I said Primeau was better in the NCAA. His numbers are clearly better, the people that pick the Mike Richter award think he's better since both years they picked Primeau over him.

 

[greasysnapper]

I'm not as I've seen most of his games. And Jaillet didn't win the Mike Richter award last year, it was Cale Morris from Notre Dame.

https://www.mikerichteraward.com/semifinalists-finalists

Primeau and Jaillet's numbers were very close last year, the difference is Jaillet was a 24 year old Senior and Primeau an 18 year old Freshman. Now Denver is also one of the top programs in the NCAA and often loaded with NHL draft picks. NU is not in the same league as them so for Primeau to put up very similar numbers on a smaller program while being 6 years younger and a Freshman is a bit more impressive imo.

Also I never said Oettinger was the better prospect, I said Primeau was better in the NCAA. His numbers are clearly better, the people that pick the Mike Richter award think he's better since both years they picked Primeau over him.

"I'm not a stat watcher or using numbers to make a case, but here are my arguments all based on numbers."

I didn't say Jaillet won the Richter award last year, I said he was the best goalie last year AND was a Mike Richter award winner. But what you said about Jaillet is a great point. You added context and analysis to the argument of why someone like Primeau is better than Jaillet. A better argument would have been his size, or lateral angle coverage, or recovery, or blocker control, or Jaillet's inability to hold his ground on the PK, among other things rather than just looking at the stats.

 

[montreal]

"I'm not a stat watcher or using numbers to make a case, but here are my arguments all based on numbers."

I didn't say Jaillet won the Richter award last year, I said he was the best goalie last year AND was a Mike Richter award winner. But what you said about Jaillet is a great point. You added context and analysis to the argument of why someone like Primeau is better than Jaillet. A better argument would have been his size, or lateral angle coverage, or recovery, or blocker control, or Jaillet's inability to hold his ground on the PK, among other things rather than just looking at the stats.

When you said stat watching you were talking about Primeau not Jaillet. I saw Oettinger several times since he and Primeau played against one another. Also when you said he was last year's best goalie and Mike Richter award winner, you can see how I would think you were saying he was last years winner since you didn't say and a Mike Richter award winner. What makes Jaillet the best goalie in the NCAA last year and why didn't he win the Mike Richter award over Morris?

I don't know enough about Jaillet to say what makes him better or worse then Primeau, but I know NU well since I saw most of their games. So if you have a much younger goalie in front of lesser talent and he puts up very similar numbers then that speaks to the impressive play of Primeau. Primeau plays a lot like Price in that he's very calm, doesn't seem to get rattled at all. Good positioning, good frame, doesn't have the puck handling skills of Price of course.

Since I never played goalie it's tougher to evaluate the position but I watched most of his games and he was very impressive especially when you look at the D he had in front of him. Davies was very good but after that you don't have any big names or high end skill. Harris impressed the heck out of me considering he turned 18 3 months before the season and was playing on the top pairing and on his off-side. The 2nd pairing of Williams and Shea was solid for sure but not like he was playing behind likely future NHLers.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Primeau > Oettinger

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Stylistically, Primeau is very similar to Price.

I’m so happy we have someone fit to take over as CP31 ages.

 

[Goldenhands]

Stylistically, Primeau is very similar to Price.

I’m so happy we have someone fit to take over as CP31 ages.

I think he is more comparable to Vasilievski in style than Price...

 

[OldScool]

Stats to goaltending can be the most misleading stat in all of sports. You could have a goalie stop 25 clear shots from the point and have a 1.00 save percentage and looks incredible on paper and one goalie who faces a 3 on nones, screens and 10 breakaways a game post a .750% and looks awful on paper. Sometimes a goal is tipped and has ZERO chance of being stopped by anyone on the planet yet that goes against the goalies stats. Sometimes a team plays a defensive first game (Russia teams come to mind) and their goalies have low GAA. Some teams play high flying offense and dont care about defense and rather win 10-5 so their goalies GAA is higher. Goalie stats are an indicator but are just part of the puzzle. Trying to make a case one goalie is better than another using stats is very tricky.

 

[the paisanos guy]

"I'm not a stat watcher or using numbers to make a case, but here are my arguments all based on numbers."

I didn't say Jaillet won the Richter award last year, I said he was the best goalie last year AND was a Mike Richter award winner. But what you said about Jaillet is a great point. You added context and analysis to the argument of why someone like Primeau is better than Jaillet. A better argument would have been his size, or lateral angle coverage, or recovery, or blocker control, or Jaillet's inability to hold his ground on the PK, among other things rather than just looking at the stats.

Are you really going to tell me you've watched enough of both Oettinger and Primeau in order to forego the stats we have and say that Oettinger is better than Primeau in every single facet of the game?

Really?

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Are you really going to tell me you've watched enough of both Oettinger and Primeau in order to forego the stats we have and say that Oettinger is better than Primeau in every single facet of the game?

Really?

Since when has having better stats been a sole reasons to say a player is better in a junior hockey league than another player? Did you miss his point about the guy now playing in the ECHL who had the best stats in the NCAA a year ago. Its important to watch the games and combine stats. Stats without context are useless.

 

[the paisanos guy]

Since when has having better stats been a sole reasons to say a player is better in a junior hockey league than another player? Did you miss his point about the guy now playing in the ECHL who had the best stats in the NCAA a year ago. Its important to watch the games and combine stats. Stats without context are useless.

Notice I didn't make any claim of who was the better goalie. I was questioning another poster's ability to claim one goalie was better at all facets than another goalie.

That would require many viewings of both goalies, as well as high level knowledge of goalie position in general. I doubt anyone in this thread meets that criteria.

 

[montreal]

It's a fair point on goalie stats which is why I think you need to look at the conference they played in. If you have a goalie putting up big numbers in the Atlantic, or WCHA or even the ECAC, you have to look at what teams they are facing. Then there's age, it's a huge difference when you have an 18 or 19 year old doing great vs a 23 or 24 year old as they have both physical maturity and more experience to help them vs said teenagers. I'm not saying that goalies from the Atlantic, WCHA or ECAC can't be good or not, just something to consider.

The Habs brought in Conner LaCouvee when they had an injury to their starter in the AHL. LaCouvee was a backup mostly at BU from what I understand, then transferred to Minnesota St Mankato as a 23 year old Senior and puts up big numbers, was a semi-finalist for the Mike Richter award but was in the ECHL this year. Now he's played well with Laval but my point is would he have had those kind of numbers had stayed at BU and say Oettinger left last year just as a what if. But it will be interesting to see how Primeau does in Laval next year as a 20 year old rookie.

 

[greasysnapper]

Are you really going to tell me you've watched enough of both Oettinger and Primeau in order to forego the stats we have and say that Oettinger is better than Primeau in every single facet of the game?

Really?

Yep. And to answer your question further down your, I played the position to a fairly high level.

 

[TeddyBare]

I think a pretty big thing not being talked about in this comparison of both Oettinger and Primeau is Montreal DIDNT SPEND A 1ST ROUND on said player.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Jake Oettinger is still a better prospect though

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Jake Oettinger is still a better prospect though

Well to be fair there is a difference between award winners and whos a better NHL prospect. Like for instance in 2015/16, the WHL player of the year was Dryden Hunt. Where as guys like Point, Barzal etc were also amongst league leaders and points per game and they didnt win anything yet they were considered way better NHL prospects. Same thing goes with goalie awards many many years in WHL too

By no means am i saying 1 is better than the other(cause ive never seen them play except for a couple games on tv) but league awards dont always declare whos a better NHL prospect

Now having said that, from what i read, both are deadly prospects and have huge futures!

 

[serp]

Jake Oettinger is still a better prospect though

Oettinger is already playing really well in the AHL after his NCAA season ended and has been thrusted into the #1 spot for Texas. Dallas keept the usual Texas #1 Landon Bow as practise goalie for the playoffs and Oettinger is starting for Texas.



Even the official NHL channel posted a highlight of him somehow ^^

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Wow, 199th overall and NCAA MVP goalie. Habs should trade him while his value is at its highest.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Well to be fair there is a difference between award winners and whos a better NHL prospect. Like for instance in 2015/16, the WHL player of the year was Dryden Hunt. Where as guys like Point, Barzal etc were also amongst league leaders and points per game and they didnt win anything yet they were considered way better NHL prospects. Same thing goes with goalie awards many many years in WHL too

By no means am i saying 1 is better than the other(cause ive never seen them play except for a couple games on tv) but league awards dont always declare whos a better NHL prospect

Now having said that, from what i read, both are deadly prospects and have huge futures!

Sure award doesn't mean everything, but its a pretty nice indication that things are going well for that player. Other than draft position (which rarely ends up meaning much for goaltenders), Primeau beats Oettinger everywhere else (ncaa, wjc, awards) and its not even close. Primeau is also 8 months younger. Watching them play would be a better way to compare them, but I doubt any of us have watched them both play considerable amount of games, and have good knowledge on how to play goaltender.

Also, the reason Dryden Hunt won the award over Barzal and Point is because he got 30 more pts than them (barzal and point played like 20 less games). Total pts is more important than pts/game for awards.

 

[serp]

Sure award doesn't mean everything, but its a pretty nice indication that things are going well for that player. Other than draft position (which rarely ends up meaning much for goaltenders), Primeau beats Oettinger everywhere else (ncaa, wjc, awards) and its not even close. Primeau is also 8 months younger. Watching them play would be a better way to compare them, but I doubt any of us have watched them both play considerable amount of games, and have good knowledge on how to play goaltender.

Also, the reason Dryden Hunt won the award over Barzal and Point is because he got 30 more pts than them (barzal and point played like 20 less games). Total pts is more important than pts/game for awards.

I've seen Oettinger now a bit since he's playing for Texas now. He's much further along in development than i thought he would be considering other goalie prospects i'm used to seeing with the Stars. He looks outstanding and not out of place at the AHL pro level. Started every game since he slotted in on the second night of a back to back a week or two ago.

 

[Thebesthockey]

Either primeau or price

price is in for next 4-6 yrs
primeau cannot wait that long

trade price for 1 LHD and 1st round...

 

[13 others]

Either primeau or price

price is in for next 4-6 yrs
primeau cannot wait that long

trade price for 1 LHD and 1st round...

hehe

 

[JadedRandom]

hehe

Goalies have generally lower value around the league compared to all other positions unless you're talking about elite goaltenders, who generally don't get traded, that have significant value. Price, while having his ups and downs, is amongst that top-end class of goalies and would thus have quite a high value around the league.

That said, he would not be enough alone in exchange for a true-blue #1 left defenseman and a first-round pick, but if we're trading Price in the next two years, expect to see quite the high-quality pakage coming our way.