[Friedman] Pittsburgh hires Kyle Dubas as President of Hockey Operations

[Oleksiak]

Why should Shanahan be booted when Dubas can get a promotion with the same results?

Because Shannahan is actually qualified to work in hockey ops. Dubas is not.

 

[Ciao]

Never have I ever wanted someone to fail as badly as I do with Dubas, and I'm not sure why. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way.

Weird.

Maybe you should get some help with that.

Whether he's good, bad or indifferent at what he does, he's just another sports executive just like thousands of others.

 

[jcs0218]

I don't think it necessarily requires a Cup-winning GM. But a guy who at least has some sort of track record of taking a team and finishing it with those last pieces to make them a true contender.


Like Mike Gillis didn't ever win a Cup...but i'd categorize him as a "finisher" sort of GM. Terrible at drafting and development and building a core. But excellent at assembling the sort of depth and supporting cast to make a serious run at the Cup.

That's where Pittsburgh currently are. They've got Croz/Malkin/Letang and a few others as a "core". They need somebody who has a proven ability to tweak the rest of the roster around them to get them at least in the vicinity of the finish line.


I'm not convinced Dubas is that guy. Though he did make a lot of big moves this year with the Leafs that suggested he might be able to do it.

I don't think Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are a good enough core anymore to lead a team to the Stanley Cup or even go on any sort of playoff run.

They have won 0 playoff series and 6 total playoff games since 2018.

They are kind of like the Lidstrom, Dasytuk, and Zetterberg core near the end of Detroit's playoff era.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Set your bar higher I’d suggest.

For 3rd round picks and later? Those are legit prospects too. Look at Woll's stats. Niemela was WJC dman of the tournament.

I'd never change your mind though you live to hate the leafs self admitted

 

[Josey Wales]

Because Shannahan is actually qualified to work in hockey ops. Dubas is not.

What is his history that shows that ??? How many GM's has he fired now??

 

[Oleksiak]

He played a big part in revamping the coaching and management teams in the Leafs org and their minor affiliates, had a sort of unorthodox set up with his assistant GMs etc and played a big part in making the leafs one of the better orgs for spreading the management out and hearing different ideas. Their approach to analytics, their adding of a skills development program etc. He modernized the org, and that’s probably exactly what the Pens organization needs after that last management group making decisions based on who was good in 2017.

The leafs lost multiple 1 goal games in the 2nd round with their stars not scoring. The team has been built to play a solid team defense despite not having the greatest defenseman core, and there was enough scoring depth there that if the stars actually showed up they could have been a challenging team to eliminate.


It’s weird the narrative / teams apparent approach seems to have somewhat quickly shifted from “it’s the players and coach, it’s the room more than anything” back to “okay let’s keep the core 4 and coach and run it back”

I bet if the leafs win the cup this coming year with 95% the same team Dubas built, the biggest difference will be the already present stars finally showing up, and half this board will be giving all the credit to the new management lol.


The GM can provide the assets, provide the tools to have success and Dubas did a really good job of that. It’s on the team (stars) to actually perform and the coach to bring out the right mindset on his players.


The stars have to get over whatever the hell their mental block is, and or they need a fresh voice behind the bench even if Keefe is a great coach.


Meanwhile Dubas new job sounds like it will be about managing management, affect the structure of the org and bring more people into the fold if I had to guess. Some of what he did in Toronto.

He also drove out all the qualified hockey people in order to make room for his spreadsheet heroes. His complete lack of understanding of the sport created a culture where even the GM was unwilling to make sacrifices for the team. Toronto was lucky this idiot left before he did even more permanent damage through his gross incompetence.

What is his history that shows that ??? How many GM's has he fired now??

Shannahan has played the game at a high level and actually understands the sport and what it takes to be a winner. Dubas has been gifted jobs without merit his entire life and attempts to substitute excel for a working knowledge of the sport. He is living proof as to the reasons that analytics dweebs who get beaten up for their lunch money should not be making any hockey related decisions.

 

[Josey Wales]

He also drove out all the qualified hockey people in order to make room for his spreadsheet heroes. His complete lack of understanding of the sport created a culture where even the GM was unwilling to make sacrifices for the team. Toronto was lucky this idiot left before he did even more permanent damage through his gross incompetence.


Shannahan has played the game at a high level and actually understands the sport and what it takes to be a winner. Dubas has been gifted jobs without merit his entire life and attempts to substitute excel for a working knowledge of the sport. He is living proof as to the reasons that analytics dweebs who get beaten up for their lunch money should not be making any hockey related decisions.

So did Mario & Wayne but that doesn't make them GM material either

 

[jcs0218]

Toronto was failing long before dubas. What is true tho is that they have had success under him that they never had in the history of their team during the regular season. All he has to do is get crosby and co to the playoffs.

The success that Toronto had under Dubas was already laid out for him prior to him becoming GM.

It is recognized that they have high top-end talent. The core of this top-end talent was in place before Dubas arrived.

He really hasn't done much on his own to lead Toronto to the regular season success that they experienced.

 

[horner]

So not GM?

It I'll be as well he will has 3 AGM's to protect his ass

 

[LastOne2100]

It could be worse, they could've made Dubas their GM?

Very curious to see if he takes the lessons learned from Toronto and does better in Pittsburgh, but I still don't see him as someone who is ready or able to make difficult decisions.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't think Crosby, Malkin, and Letang are a good enough core anymore to lead a team to the Stanley Cup or even go on any sort of playoff run.

They have won 0 playoff series and 6 total playoff games since 2018.

They are kind of like the Lidstrom, Dasytuk, and Zetterberg core near the end of Detroit's playoff era.

Maybe...maybe not. They've still got a pair of #1 calibre Centers and a #1 Defenceman. That's a big part of putting the puzzle together typically.



But either way...they're locked into that direction. They could be good enough still, maybe they're not...but that's the only way forward for Pittsburgh right now. They're not trading those guys. The mission is clearly to try to support and surround those aging stars with the players it takes to make them contenders.


There's no choice there. There's no "rebuilding" right now. You've just gotta sell out and go for it. Throw everything you can at the table and see what happens during these last few years of that core being competitive players.


The rebuild comes after. It's gonna hurt. It's gonna be ugly. It's gonna be prolonged misery because they spent so many years competing. But that's just the nature of the process. Trying to worry about that part now is how you achieve neither aim. You're not tanking out and "rebuilding" with those guys on the roster. You're not trading them. You're locked in to one singular direction. In some ways, it very much is like the twilight years of that Red Wings dynasty. You're ride or die with that core. Do what you can to support them and start the rebuilding process from scratch in a couple years.

 

[Oleksiak]

So did Mario & Wayne but that doesn't make them GM material either

Mario also won Cups as an owner, most likely having a hand in selecting management. At the very least, their playing experience earned them a chance. Dubas hasn't earned that chance and frankly shouldn't be be trusted to make a coffee run for the grown-ups.

 

[edog37]

He'll have all the power in Pittsburgh

And away from that clown Shanahan

 

[Josey Wales]

Mario also won Cups as an owner, most likely having a hand in selecting management. At the very least, their playing experience earned them a chance. Dubas hasn't earned that chance and frankly shouldn't be be trusted to make a coffee run for the grown-ups.

NO he hated Scotty Bowman & forced him off the ice as HC Hated Sergei Zubov & got him traded for Kevin Hatcher who was a dog

 

[Andrei79]

Only in the NHL can you be a complete failure at your job and get promoted 10 days later.

Hilarious the timing of all of this too.

And didn't he say he was thinking of his family ? Now they're moving to another country ?

And he went for the same job as Shanahan ? Guy is a weasel.

 

[thefutures]

The success that Toronto had under Dubas was already laid out for him prior to him becoming GM.

It is recognized that they have high top-end talent. The core of this top-end talent was in place before Dubas arrived.

He really hasn't done much on his own to lead Toronto to the regular season success that they exexperienced.

The same logic could be used for his future in Pittsburgh I guess. If Pitt does well, it was all already laid out for him prior to arriving with having guys like crosby.

Only in the NHL can you be a complete failure at your job and get promoted 10 days later.

Hilarious the timing of all of this too.

And didn't he say he was thinking of his family ? Now they're moving to another country ?

And he went for the same job as Shanahan ? Guy is a weasel.

Hes get all the blame, he should have all of the control. Seems fair to me.

 

[Golden_Jet]

For 3rd round picks and later? Those are legit prospects too. Look at Woll's stats. Niemela was WJC dman of the tournament.

I'd never change your mind though you live to hate the leafs self admitted

Ya then Niemela took a step back the next year.
Self admitted lol, you’re going to have to provide that link.

When do you change your avatar to Florida again, like you did a few weeks ago.? Tomorrow , ahead of game 1.

 

[Waterbuf]

Dubas showed at least a semi-coherent holistic concept for his previous team. That alone puts him in the top 10, probably top 5 GMs in the league.
Anybody saying "but the Leafs didnt win the cup" is most likely just a grief-stricken paperbag head.

 

[Haatley]

Again, Niemela 3rd round pick, Woll 3rd, Holmberg 6th who plsyed 37 games for us this year. Rest is too early.

And in my other post I didn't mention Durzi was a 2nd either. He's legit at drafting

He was an assistant when Woll was drafted. It's total speculation that he was a Dubas guy. He's also only played 15 total NHL games and has been bad most of his time in the AHL.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

It could be worse, they could've made Dubas their GM?

Very curious to see if he takes the lessons learned from Toronto and does better in Pittsburgh, but I still don't see him as someone who is ready or able to make difficult decisions.

Leafs downgraded gms as well. Not big difference. Two losers together

 

[Divine]

This screams jealousy, he’s had success everywhere he’s gone.

Where?

 

[Leaf Fans]

What is his history that shows that ??? How many GM's has he fired now??

1 well. 1- for all intents and purposes Dubas was fired, technically he was told that the Leafs were not going to renew his contract.

 

[Josey Wales]

1 well. 1- for all intents and purposes Dubas was fired, technically he was told that the Leafs were not going to renew his contract.

Lou Lameriello?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Lou Lameriello?

Good guy. He was offered a contract as Senior Adviser to the Leafs, but turned it down.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Weird.

Maybe you should get some help with that.

Whether he's good, bad or indifferent at what he does, he's just another sports executive just like thousands of others.

Totally weird bro that fans have emotions about public figures in the sport.

Maybe I should get some help because it's only normal to feel no emotion towards an exec of another team.